The fate of the 13th

[Wolf Lord Mjolnir]

Hi guys,

 

Was just reading some posts and had a thought that should be worthy of discussion.

 

1 neither One Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns makes any real mention of the actions of the 13th company.

2 Russ was very against splitting his legion, which would have been small after the attack on Prospero

3 the Wolf Brothers founded during the second founding apparently just degenerated and 'disappeared'

 

Now I was thinking, what if the 13th was taken whole to become the Wolf Brothers by Russ and then told to get the hell into the Eye of Terror and find those good for nothing Chaos boys

 

This has a few benefits for the Vlka Fenryka

1 shows willingness to comply with second founding, although Russ hated it

2 degeneration provides a cover story for the actions of the 13th

3 takes the majority of the problem wulfen out of the legion and on a useful mission, I think Russ would have liked that.

 

I cannot find any recent fluff (bearing in mind the Black Library novels are considered canon) that would stop this happening.

 

I am aware of old fluff stating Russ sent the 13th into the warp portal after the Thousand Sons at the battle of Prospero. Strangely neither Graham McNeill or Dan Abnett make any reference to the 13th being sent into the warp.

 

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting idea.

[Legatus]

I cannot find any recent fluff (bearing in mind the Black Library novels are considered canon) that would stop this happening.

 

I am aware of old fluff stating Russ sent the 13th into the warp portal after the Thousand Sons at the battle of Prospero. Strangely neither Graham McNeill or Dan Abnett make any reference to the 13th being sent into the warp.

If you are a Space Wolves enthusiast then you might be pleased to learn that they have a Codex which has been released not too long ago. You will find most of their background discussed in that book, along with an army list to play an army of the Space Wolves in the game.

 

The fate of the 13th Company is mentioned on page 9 of that Codex:

 

"The Primarch of the Thousand Sons, the cyclopean giant Magnus the Red, is said to have fought Leman Russ whilst all around loyalist and traitor Space Marines battled for supremacy. Eventually the Thousand Sons gave way, and Magnus the Red fled with what remained of his forces. It was whilst pursuing the Thousand Sons that the Space Wolves lost the Thirteenth Company, known as the Wulfen-kind. Since then the Space Wolves have never had a thirteenth Company nor has any Wolf Lord borne the badge of the Wulfen."

[Pulse]

Sarcasam if ever i saw it. ;)

[Midgard]

One thing I found a bit curious, in the "Tales of Heresy" compilation there is a reference to the 13th Great Company calling itself "Wolf Brothers". It might be a coincidence, or, perhaps, a hint?

 

That said, there does seem to be a contradiction if we assume that Wolf Brothers are the 13th Great Company - unless we consider the Codex to be an example of "unreliable narrator", with much of Wolves' history being oral tradition and therefore subject to distortion over 10,000 years. Naturally, this is not very orthodox, considering that the Codex is supposed to be a higher level of authority than the books, but then, at least some of the Codex fluff might be intentionally vague or even misleading...

[Wulfkry]

"Guard your tongue, whelp, lest i cut it out. I care not for your moon-touched ramblings. Nor for the tales of your grandmother. Mark this well - of the 13th company we do not speak" - Ulfric Hoodclaw

 

theres your answer, hhaha Just kidding. I think you probably might find some information on the 13th black crusade codex as if i remember right they 13th are listed in there and there is some fluff. Then again in the last Ragnar book there contains several pages worth of 13th company stuff. Though in my opinion the book is written uhh ill say not up to par with bill king's work in the first three ragnar books. It's doubtful that the 13th became the ill fated wolf brothers rather, maybe the name was taken to honor them. As far as i can remember all the previous fluff points to Leman sending the 13th after the thousand sons, but some recent stuff including the last Ragnar book seems to infer that there are other reasons why Leman ordered the 13th into the warp.

 

It seems to me that the 13th are the elite of the elite of the Rout and also the most unstable being that most if not all bear the mark of the wulfen and maybe contain the majority of Leman's adult human warrior's that survived the astartes process. So i guess a comparison is that if the members of the Rout are say the US army, then the 13th are the Army Rangers, that much more elite and utterly more deadly. That being said it is possible that Leman sent them on a extremely prolonged mission since he and a few of the lords in the 13th were literally the ONLY ones who could control the wulfen, since he knew he would not live forever and therefore might run the risk of thousands of wulfen turning on brother and imperium.

 

If i remember correctly some of the old fluff says that the wolf brothers were scourged by the inquisition and the grey knights because of severe mutation. Though i do not know if that has been retconned.

 

Your only going to find scattered references to the 13th as thats what GW wants kind of a mystery force of good guys, a myth wrapped in a legend boxed in a riddle.

[obs0l3te]

psh the Rout and the 13th company. The way they are described in PB they ALL have the mark.

[Hengist Ironfang]

@ the OP: In the last space wolves book Ragnar meets the 13th, they make no reference to being a separate chapter and are still hunting the thousand sons, but most of them do bear the mark of the wulfen but seem to have it under some form of control

[eaglefists13]

Hi guys,

 

Was just reading some posts and had a thought that should be worthy of discussion.

 

1 neither One Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns makes any real mention of the actions of the 13th company.

2 Russ was very against splitting his legion, which would have been small after the attack on Prospero

3 the Wolf Brothers founded during the second founding apparently just degenerated and 'disappeared'

 

Now I was thinking, what if the 13th was taken whole to become the Wolf Brothers by Russ and then told to get the hell into the Eye of Terror and find those good for nothing Chaos boys

 

This has a few benefits for the Vlka Fenryka

1 shows willingness to comply with second founding, although Russ hated it

2 degeneration provides a cover story for the actions of the 13th

3 takes the majority of the problem wulfen out of the legion and on a useful mission, I think Russ would have liked that.

 

I cannot find any recent fluff (bearing in mind the Black Library novels are considered canon) that would stop this happening.

 

I am aware of old fluff stating Russ sent the 13th into the warp portal after the Thousand Sons at the battle of Prospero. Strangely neither Graham McNeill or Dan Abnett make any reference to the 13th being sent into the warp.

 

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting idea.

Something always occurred to me with this, and may reveal why its not in either book chrnicling the fall of Prospero.

The 13th Company were called the Wolf Brothers by the rest of the legion. I have a sneaky suspcion that the successor wren't actually that but were the same 13th company sent in to fight the Thousand sons. The honour that the Wolves talk of each other and the fact that they werent missing but engaged in a mission given to them by Russ would mean they would never call a successor chapter the same name.

[Razhbad]

Somehow i don't think the Wolf Brothers chapter is the 13th Company. According to the old fluff the 13th Company followed the Thousand Sons right after the battle of Prospero and Arihman himself hears howls following him when he leaves prospero through sorcery. Now of course they have not been properly recovered, but the 13th Company does appear at the end of the Space Wolf Series by Lee Lightner where they are led by the same Wolf Lord from the HH time. As for the Wolf Brothers themselves they have been present in stories as Wolf Brothers as late as the 41st Millenium itself. Now if people want to link the Wolf Brothers to something i recommend people take a look at the Chaos Space Marine Codex where a renegade faction Skyrer's Dark Wolves are mentioned.

[Grimtooth]

It is a very valid theory, one that IMO crosses the line from theory into reality.

 

The 13th on their own were said to have high numbers those with the Mark of the Wulfen. There are references that it was made up of the older aspirants from Russ' court thus their higher occurrence of the Mark of the Wulfen. These older aspirants have been referred to as the Wolf Brothers. Accounts of the Wolf Brothers successor chapter vary from genetic instability and one reference to them chasing some Eldar into the warp. Russ is known to have opposed the breaking up of the Legions.

 

So we have a lot of circumstancial evidence that can easily be linked without too much complex thought. Here is my very plausible theory:

 

The 13th Co aka the Wolf Brothers are present during the Battle of Prospero. The genetic stability of the 13th Co is witnessed firsthand by both members of the Custodes and Silent Sisterhhood.

 

Enraged at the escape of Magnus, knowledgable of the resistance those with the Mark have to Chaos, and now faced with the revelation of his Legion's inherent genetic flaw to outsiders, Russ orders the 13th Co into the warp in hunt of the Thousand Sons.

 

Now as far as I know, nothing more is mentioned nor are there any further accounts of the 13th Co during the Heresy.

 

We now fast forward to the end of the Heresy and the reorganization of the Legions into chapters, something that Russ fiercely opposes. However he does have an out. The 13th Co is designated as the Wolf Brothers, first successor chapter of the VI Legion. Accounts of their genetic instabilty is questioned/verified by the Custodes and Silent Sisterhood that were present on Prospero, more then likely in collusion with Russ. What accounts of the Wolf Brothers can either be fabricated or the actions other companies attributed to the Wolf Brothers to perpetuate the myth. The final account of the Wolf Brothers chasing Eldar into the Warp allows closure of discussion into their genetic instability and any further plans of future attempts at successor chapters of the Space Wolves.

 

This is just how I tie all the random bits of fluff as has been presented for the 13th Co and the Wolf Brothers.

[obs0l3te]

13th co. Is in one is the William king ragnar books. They are not the wolf brothers

[Grimtooth]

13th co. Is in one is the William king ragnar books. They are not the wolf brothers

 

/facepalm

 

There is 40k history outside of the Ragnar series.

[obs0l3te]

Correct like the entire EoT book. Or the countless white dwarf articles about them.

[Grimtooth]

Correct like the entire EoT book. Or the countless white dwarf articles about them.

 

There is one Index Astartes article about the 13th Co which mentions the Wolf Brothers in passing.

 

Codex Eye of Terror has nothing mentioning the Wolf Brothers.

 

However is we can use you pointing out Wolf's Honour;

 

The wolf lord of the 13th Co in Ragnar's timeline that has been in the warp for 10,000yrs is Bulveye.

 

Bulveye is the wolf lord of the pre-heresy 13th Co in Wolf at the Door, Tales of Heresy. In that story, the 13th Co, led by the same wolf lord calls themselves the Wolf Brothers.

 

So let's see the all the, "coincidences";

 

Bulveye leads the current timeline 13th Co that refer to themselves as the Wolf Brothers

 

Both the 13th Co and the Wolf Brothers were known for genetic instability.

 

Both the 13th Co and the Wolf Brothers were said to have chased an enemy into the Warp.

[Razhbad]

Ok but that doesnt stop there being Wolf Brothers Marines being mentioned as late as the 41st Millennium long after the disapearence of the 13th Company. Now perhaps some Wolf Brothers have joined the 13th but again i point to the sudden appearence of the Chaos Renegades Skyrars Dark Wolves

[obs0l3te]

I was referring to the 13th no the wolf brothers. Even in 2nd edition they (as in all wolves) call each other wolf brother. And the wolf brothers were founded after the 13th were sent into the eye. As for the dark wolves they could be any thing, it is said a company turned traitor, then the wolves that turned traitor on the wolf of fenris, or they could even be the wolf brothers. I mean ill fated wolf brothers, then multiple sources say that the 13th is .not spoke of and reserved for traitors and those lost

[MaveriK]

Correct like the entire EoT book. Or the countless white dwarf articles about them.

 

There is one Index Astartes article about the 13th Co which mentions the Wolf Brothers in passing.

 

Codex Eye of Terror has nothing mentioning the Wolf Brothers.

 

However is we can use you pointing out Wolf's Honour;

 

The wolf lord of the 13th Co in Ragnar's timeline that has been in the warp for 10,000yrs is Bulveye.

 

Bulveye is the wolf lord of the pre-heresy 13th Co in Wolf at the Door, Tales of Heresy. In that story, the 13th Co, led by the same wolf lord calls themselves the Wolf Brothers.

 

So let's see the all the, "coincidences";

 

Bulveye leads the current timeline 13th Co that refer to themselves as the Wolf Brothers

 

Both the 13th Co and the Wolf Brothers were known for genetic instability.

 

Both the 13th Co and the Wolf Brothers were said to have chased an enemy into the Warp.

 

nicely done! but what say you about Jorin Bloodfang from our previous fluff? and Jorin Bloodhowl (me thinks that was a typo) in the current codex?

[MaveriK]

I was referring to the 13th no the wolf brothers. Even in 2nd edition they (as in all wolves) call each other wolf brother. And the wolf brothers were founded after the 13th were sent into the eye. As for the dark wolves they could be any thing, it is said a company turned traitor, then the wolves that turned traitor on the wolf of fenris, or they could even be the wolf brothers. I mean ill fated wolf brothers, then multiple sources say that the 13th is .not spoke of and reserved for traitors and those lost

yea but don't other wolves in general refer to each other as wolf brother? at least we do in the Fang at B&C :lol:

[Grimtooth]

This the exact quote,

 

"Ever since, the other warriors of the Legion referred the the Thirteeth as the Greybeards. The members of the company, however, called themselves the Wolf Brothers."

 

It is NOT used a shorthand term of one Space Wolf to another. That is the title they called themselves as opposed to the title that the rest of the Legion called them.

[Jim Shady]

Isn't the 13th in the Eye of Terror going after the Thousand Sons after Russ told 'em to finish the job?

 

If I remember rightly aswell, the Wolf Brothers were mentioned in the short story about Honsou where he goes the Huron Blackheart's games and they are in a bar or something before the games begin. Think there was only 2 or so of them.

[Adarul Greystalker]

It was very strange that the Horus Heresy novels dealing with the Battle of Prospero told us nothing about the true fate of the 13th Company. I was somewhat disappointed by that.

 

So we have the 13th Company, whom we know about through the Eye of Terror codex, the Ragnar series, and a few other sources, but whose initial disappearance is mysterious, with only a few references to them being sent after the 15th Legion by Russ after Prospero.

 

At the same time, we know that the Wolf Brothers were formed as the only successor to the Space Wolves, that they were genetically unstable, and that their fate was unfortunate but is ultimately unknown. Very little is said of them beyond that.

 

There's enough ambiguity surrounding the disappearances of these groups to plausibly connect the two through the coincidences that have been mentioned here, and given the lack of any firm evidence against the theory that's been described in this thread, I won't claim that it's incorrect.

 

However, I don't personally think that the 13th Company are the Wolf Brothers chapter. Here are my reasons why: Firstly, the official stories of the disappearance of the 13th and the founding of the Wolf Brothers separates these two events chronologically. I know that this can be explained away, but the fact that it has to be explained away at all casts some doubt for me. Additionally, the closest thing that we have to an official story about the Wolf Brothers's fate is that some or all of the chapter chased an eldar warhost into the webway and was never seen again. Once again, this can be explained away, but doing so forces us to claim that the story about some of the chapter vanishing into the webway was totally fabricated.

 

At this point, some circumstantial clues linking the 13th Company to the Wolf Brothers are being weighed against the validity of a few relatively vague stories about these groups that are nonetheless official. Then there's the piece of evidence that decides it for me. In the Apocalypse rulebook, the warband of a chaos lord is listed as including a Wolf Brothers squad. Mind you, this is not the same thing as claiming that Skyrar's Dark Wolves are Wolf Brothers. Skyrar's Dark Wolves could easily be a lost company that fell to chaos, a warband created using stolen Space Wolf geneseed, or any number of other things, so pointing to them as evidence of the Wolf Brothers' fate is in fact no evidence at all. But the warband in the Apocalypse codex is listed as including a Wolf Brothers squad. For me, this suggests that a simpler explanation of the Wolf Brothers' fate is that their numbers dwindled due to the problems of their genetic instability, and that eventually the small chapter were lost in a confrontation with an eldar warhost. Some chased the eldar into the webway and were never seen again, some were killed on the field of battle, others succumbed to the curse and became feral beasts, and others still fell to chaos. It's possible that they turned to chaos after having gone into the webway, finding a breach that lead them into the warp or bargaining with daemons to release them from the labyrinth. Or there may have been desertion before the webway disaster, owing to degeneration of the chapter due to their genetic instability.

 

That seems more plausible to me, but then again, it's just another theory. I personally like the ambiguity in the stories of these factions because I find it thought-provoking.

[Grimtooth]

From what has been said about the upcomingnovel, Battle of the Fang, we are going to get a bit more info about the Wolf Brothers.