Sterngaurd gun lines bouncers

[Grizzly_bear]

I've got a game coming up in April 2500 points game, I'm thinking of taking 20 sterngaurd (2x 10man units)

 

I'm facing an ork player, and basicly we're doing 'attack and defend'.....I'm the defender with 5 targets to defend.

 

Also I'm taking pedro model (edited a bit) to gain the scouring rule for sternguard.

 

Now I'm thinking of taking two assault squads to 'back up' the sterngaurd units or the 2 of the three tactical squads,

but I'm also thinking of taking 2 10 man vangaurd, vanilla squads with jump packs instead, (for the extra attacks)

 

i will also be having two 10 man deve sqauds, 4 H.bolters, 2 M.L and 2 P.C

 

also with a 10man 'regular' terminators.

 

How's the view on the assualt/vangaurd squads?

[Zynk Kaladin]

Do you have an idea of what you might face against the Ork list? GI Joe once said "knowing is half the battle". I see you don't have much anti-tank at all so is it safe to assume there will be no vehicles?

 

You definitely don't need the assualt squads with Pedro and the sternies. Look at it this way, the Sternguard are just as strong as an assault squad normally; now with +1 attack they will shine even better in CC. I recommend spending the points on whirlwinds if you have any.

 

If you really want to field assault marines, I recommend taking a chaplain with them. The rerolls to hit are a god-send and make this unit much much more killy to whittle down the orkish hordes. Vanguard vets are always nice with a couple of storm shields and lightning claws.

 

For whittling down mobs I recommend the Idaho pattern honor guard squad. Since you're going to take Kantor you already have your chapter master. The squad then has 1 champion with a relic blade, 1 with a banner, and 3 regulars with power weapons. This squad will give you an extra +1 attack bubble so you can spread out the +1 attack modifier across your army better. Also, they wreck infantry like no ones business. I was skeptical about taking this unit a long time ago, but experience has shown that it performs well enough.

 

Good hunting

[vash1023]

arent you kinda tailoring your list?

 

i mean it takes alot of fun out of the game if you just make a list specifically for destroying someone else s list.

[spartan249]

You know that LRs are the way to frustrate Ork players to no end, right? Take your sternguard squads, stick them in LRCs, and bring a bunch of typhoon speeders. I mean... if you want to shred your opponent, this is what you should bring.

 

Otherwise... you're getting torn up. You're going to sit on an objective, single-tap as they get close, then rapidfire one last time and get charged by who knows how many orks/nobs? Do you think you can kill enough orks to survive the charge? If so, then good luck.

 

If you're taking jump packers, take Assault Marines.

 

For 650 points, you get 20 vanguard throwing out 80 attacks on the charge... if you lose nobody.

 

For 600 points, you get 30 assault marines throwing out 87 attacks on the charge... with double flamers before the charge.

 

Just saying... Assault marines are the superior choice given that you have 3 fast attack slots and no intention of using them for land speeders or Heavy bolter attack bikes.

[LardO'Blood]

arent you kinda tailoring your list?

 

i mean it takes alot of fun out of the game if you just make a list specifically for destroying someone else s list.

And the biggest blood baths when both people do! :devil:

 

Sternguard with Kantor don't need CC backup most of the time, they have 4 attacks on the charge which is already better than assault marines. You'll be better off giving both sternguard squads powerfists and group charging his mobs after firing bolt pistols, or firing 40 hellfire rounds into them at 12". I can't give you much advice where vanguard are concerned, but Thade will probably stop by to give you some help. I believe he runs vanguard in exactly this way. What wargear do your tactical terminators have? It seems like you'll have a lot of mid table dominance with 20 sternguard, 20 assault marines and 30 tacticals, so I suggest you use CMLs and march up a flank or use TH/SS terminators in a LRC to charge down the center.

[Grizzly_bear]

ATM I know my oppenent has 3 battlewagons along with thrakka and retinue.....with boss snikrot and komandoos....And a hell of alot of mega nobz....

 

I can field a deve squad maxed out with lascannons, I also have a v.dread with a.cannon and H.flamer, but his list may all change massivly by next April.... 4months away....plus he text me earlier saying

 

"ha ha merry Xmas but it's a green tide on the Xmas turkey"

 

so you know he's got more orks for Xmas....

 

I've just bought the LR redeemer/crusader, gotta decide which one I really want for my IFs when it arrives.

 

@lardO'blood: my termies will be having either two CML or two A.cannons, I was thinking of running Lysander instead of kantor.

 

 

 

I was going to drop a tact squad for a full man scout sniper squad as a long range defence cheap squad....I'm thinking of investing in a whirlwind and dakka pred...

[Br0ther Rafen]

Sniper scouts wont do anything against a 30 man Ork mob, i'm afraid, but they are good at killing MC's, so I wouldn't run them in your list. Whirlies will drop Orks like flies, and so will a Thunderfire, but i won't go further into that :P

Aside from those? Honour Guard have been mentioned. Another very good option will be LC assault Terminators. a 10 man squad of these will ruin anyone's day, and will

make an excellent counter hammer unit in case he uses Gaz and a retinue, making an massive Uber combat in the centre, which will be most awesome ;)

my 2 cents

[Grizzly_bear]

LC don't really fit IFs but at the end of the day, they are a codex chapter.

 

I wanna buy a thunderfire cannon but I need to get on with painting.

 

So I would run a 5 man honour gaurd squad with 4x grenade launchers, seems fitting to launch some frags and krak grenades into a mob before CC, sound right?

[Br0ther Rafen]

'nade launches... meh. if you want, but 5 guys with PW's and a Banner will cause a large amount of attacks (25 or so?) and can kill mobs easily.

an Uber Death squad of ten, will cause 50 PW attacks (!!!!!), which will wipe the floor with pretty much everything.

don't have much experience, aside from one game when the squad killed 20 Striking Scorpions before dying to Banshees, which they obviously held themselves well.

another 2 cents from me.

[Grizzly_bear]

@brother rafen: thank you very much for your four cents so far....how about 3 whirlwinds looool

[Wildfire]

April, eh? You really plan ahead!

 

arent you kinda tailoring your list?

 

i mean it takes alot of fun out of the game if you just make a list specifically for destroying someone else s list.

 

That's very much a matter of opinion. I know plenty of people who prefer to make a new list for every opponent. There's nothing wrong with it, particularly if the other player is doing the same. It even makes sense, why would a bunch of SM dropping in to fight orks bring along weapons to fight Traitor Marines?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

arent you kinda tailoring your list?

 

i mean it takes alot of fun out of the game if you just make a list specifically for destroying someone else s list.

 

That's very much a matter of opinion. I know plenty of people who prefer to make a new list for every opponent. There's nothing wrong with it, particularly if the other player is doing the same. It even makes sense, why would a bunch of SM dropping in to fight orks bring along weapons to fight Traitor Marines?

 

There's that nonsense that it's "cheating" that some maintain.. Meh.

 

The thing is, you take the force to beat the other guy.. Anyway you do that it's tailoring; in fact, theoretically if you do anything but choose at random with closed eyes you're tailoring to one degree or another.

 

*This Public Service Nonsese was brought to you by CJJ*

[LardO'Blood]

LC don't really fit IFs but at the end of the day, they are a codex chapter.

 

I wanna buy a thunderfire cannon but I need to get on with painting.

 

So I would run a 5 man honour gaurd squad with 4x grenade launchers, seems fitting to launch some frags and krak grenades into a mob before CC, sound right?

I have heard (And I will soon start testing it out) that Idaho Pattern Honor Guard are pretty good against ork mobs.

They are (IIRC):

Champion with Relic Blade

Honor Guard with Banner

Honor Guard

Honor Guard

Honor Guard

Chapter Master with Relic Blade/Storm shield.

Razorback

[Grizzly_bear]

@lardo'blood: I've read a thread on here about that honour gaurd, chapter master unit, sounds fun and highly amusing, BUT remember my oppenent always uses that Thrakka guy with meganobz retinue, wouldn't the honour gaurd and master (kantor) be ripped apart by power klawz?

I've bought a pred today to go into my IF army, Dakka or AT pred?

 

And @ everyone else: when you know you'll be facing a certain race of course toy going too tailor your list, with orks and tyranids.....template and blast weapons are your obv bestest freinds ever.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Dakka or AT pred?

 

- Depends on how your force is set out otherwise, decide from that.

 

And @ everyone else: when you know you'll be facing a certain race of course toy going too tailor your list, with orks and tyranids.....template and blast weapons are your obv bestest freinds ever.

 

The Emperor is my best friend.. But he never writes, he never calls...

[LardO'Blood]

@lardo'blood: I've read a thread on here about that honour gaurd, chapter master unit, sounds fun and highly amusing, BUT remember my oppenent always uses that Thrakka guy with meganobz retinue, wouldn't the honour gaurd and master (kantor) be ripped apart by power klawz?

I'm not entirely sure. Do meganobz also have two wounds? Remember power klaws are I1 and meganobz don't have an invulnerable save standard so they are just as tough as a 2 wound boy against honor guard. I believe Idaho Pattern Honor Guard should kill about 5 meganobz (or do 10 wounds).

[Grizzly_bear]

I'll have to double check the nobz by buying the ork codex.

 

With my pred I might magnatize it.....when I get some.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I'm not entirely sure. Do meganobz also have two wounds? Remember power klaws are I1 and meganobz don't have an invulnerable save standard so they are just as tough as a 2 wound boy against honor guard. I believe Idaho Pattern Honor Guard should kill about 5 meganobz (or do 10 wounds).

 

2 wounds and 'only' a 2+ save. Vindicators and DCCW are delightful against them. Insta-death.

[Br0ther Rafen]

@lardo'blood: I've read a thread on here about that honour gaurd, chapter master unit, sounds fun and highly amusing, BUT remember my oppenent always uses that Thrakka guy with meganobz retinue, wouldn't the honour gaurd and master (kantor) be ripped apart by power klawz?

 

Honour Guard should rip through Meganobz easily, so no worries. Vindies can also be used to great effect against Orks and they will be pretty fun to use as well in my opinion.

If you are running HG, Idaho Pattern is a very good config, and you can probably just use that to kill whatever you want.

Since it's 2500 (from memory) so why don't you go all out and get your self some Devastator's? a 10x squad with 4x ML's or another config, you can cause some havoc through his mobs and you can kill Tanks just as well.

btw, is he running 5x or 10x Meganobz? if he takes ten, you'll have to up te anti and use 10 Honour Guard to counte uber sqaud it :teehee:

Thats what i would do anyway, for the sake of uber combats.

[Grizzly_bear]

In 50% of his games he does take 10x meganobz with thrakka and he's rips peoples insides....OUT lol but Ive seen him use thrakka mounted in a battle wagon and then links up with his 'retinue'

 

Hmmmm 4x P.C's? Lol

[spartan249]

Hammernators bring the pain to Meganobz, since they cost just as much, sport a 3+ invul, and kill with every wound they inflict. Ghazgkhull requires his own solution (Lysander), but when you're competing in a wang-size contest, you can't hold anything back.

[Grizzly_bear]

@spartan249: I was thinking of taking Lysander along with pedro and a jump pack chaplain weilding a combi flamer/or melta.

 

But I might exchanged the chaplain with JP with one in TDA and storm

bolter.....this unit should be rock solid....I was thinking of running Lysander with the 'regular' termies....bolter drill....and TDA chappy with a 5man unit of assault termies, pure re rolls....

 

I spose I should start adding CML to my termies though, specially if theyre running with Lysander.....20 storm bolters shots re rolling and 4CML shots.....

 

<dust settles: "where are the charging orks Captian?"

 

Lysander.... "in heaped chunks.... POW", (Lysander starts the thriller dance in celebration) lol

 

on a serious note....I need some 'back field' units, to counter aka boss snikrot....I know he'll field him....this is where my support tanks and deve squads may be over run.

[spartan249]

Here's a statistical prediction of what happens when Meganobs charge your assault terminators.

 

10 Meganobz = 40 attacks

20 hits

~16 wounds

~5.5 dead terminators

 

Attacks back

5 Assault Terminators = 10 attacks

5 hits

~4 wounds

~4 dead Meganobz

 

Not a position you want to be in.

However, you take 10 Assault Terminators?

 

10 Assault Terminators = 20 attacks

10 hits

~8.3 wounds

~8.3 dead Meganobz

 

Now you're much better off, and you're probably going to be able to break through and continue killing more orks.

 

If you charge, you might win with 5, but you will definitely win with 10. I would take 10 Th/SS terminators instead of 5 TH/SS and 5 Normal terminators. That'll save you a few points to invest into actual shooty units that pack S8+ and can move very quickly.

 

I might consider taking Khan and a Chaplain. Hit and Run can save you from a prolonged combat by repeatedly giving you a charge bonus every other assault phase. In this case, I would think it's prudent to take 3 or 4 Double Lightning Claw terminators to take advantage of the S5 I5 afforded by FC.

[Grizzly_bear]

I'm playing as IFs so codex marines don't get furious charge.

 

But your logic sounds sound, but what about a unit of reg termies and stick them in a LRR/C?

[Wildfire]

The problem is, of course, that unless he's stupid he won't be charging your termies with his nobs. He'll be charging them with is boyz. Weight of numbers is going to take them down, and he'll actually lose fewer wounds so will be more likely to win combat.