Devastators - Combat Squad or Single Squad?

[syypher]

I've been recently pondering about how to field my Devastators in my Assault Mech/Jump list. (Jumpers are screened out of complete LOS from the enemy behind my AV13 and RBs. This allows them to get in closer for the kill. This is not for a DoA/Mech Hybrid list)

 

I field either one of two was; 2x squads of 5 with 4 MLs each. or 2x squads of 10 devs each with 4 MLs combat squad into 2x 5's with 2 MLs each.

 

-To get 8 Missle Launchers with the combat squad idea it will cost 420 points. You will end up with 4x squads of Devastators with 2 ML's each (2 Heavy Slots in the FoC)

-To get 8 Missle Launchers with individual squads you will need 260 points. You will end up with 2x squads of Devastators with 4 ML's each (2 Heavy Slots in the FoC)

 

Advantages of Combat Squad:

1) Varied Fire Points - much harder for opponent to move around your ML Devs when your shooting from two different covered locations

2) Takes up 1 Heavy Slot

3) More Ground covered for objectives possibly

4) Harder to counter deploy multiple Dev squads

5) More wounds to share around before you need to start taking out Devs with MLs

6) Higher Chances of popping multiple vehicles since you can now effectively split the fire, sort of like SW's

7) Better Target saturation.

8) Much harder to remove the Devastator threat since you need to take out 4 squads of 5 now, all with 3+ and cover saves (hopefully)

 

Disadvantages:

1) Costly for advantages

2) Less HW's per squad so less chances of popping a single vehicle you target per squad

 

 

What is B&C's thoughts on this?

Also, what is y'alls thoughts on Las Cannon Devs? Too costly?

[Bracks0682]

To be honest and short to the point... Combat team them the pro's are worth it...

[Dark Legionnare]

It could be really late and I'm just not reading it well enough, but why does it cost more for the same exact number of marines and missile launchers? Take 2 ten man squads and split them into combat squads should be the way to go.

 

I like the whole idea a lot, but stay away from Las cannons unless you know your opponent is using lots of AV10 vehicles. Nothing says "up yours" like AV that auto glances. If they're using normal stuff, just stick with the ML. Las cannons get mighty expensive, for dev squads. If you really need a Las cannon, pop it in a Tac squad for cheaper points cost.

 

My only other advice is dear god... do not combat squad against Dark Eldar. Giving them easy pain tokens is a no no! Other than that, idea seems sound!

[syypher]

Wow I didn't expect such positive feedback. Well I kind of did since it was a pretty neat idea but it definitely is something that is extremely out of the norm for me until someone suggested it. It seems very awkward for me, but only because I'm not use to it. The positives sure do out weigh the negatives to doing this...

 

 

@Dark Legionnare: It costs more because it's not the same # of marines. Just the same # of ML's. The 2x squads of 10 models with 4 ML's in each squad has 10 more guys in it than 2x regular squads of 5 with 4 MLs in each. So when you split them it also gives extra wounds to remove before you have to start taking out the ML carrying guys.

 

Increased survivability, more targets for opp to take down just to kill the MLs, better range of fire, better chance of killing more vehicles...seems good to me. Anyone else? Anyone see any negatives on doing this other than the point cost increase?

[Mezkh]

I think it's a bad idea. The benefits are good but not worth the 160 points less in the 'assault/mech part of your force. Plus you kind of want your opponent to shoot at your devs - they shouldn't be a priority target.

 

What is your other Heavy choice? Because 15 Marines with 12 missle launchers > 20 Marines with 8...

[Dark Legionnare]

Aha! I get it now. This part's wording,

 

"-To get 8 Missle Launchers with the combat squad idea it will cost 420 points. You will end up with 4x squads of Devastators with 2 ML's each (2 Heavy Slots in the FoC)

-To get 8 Missle Launchers with individual squads you will need 260 points. You will end up with 2x squads of Devastators with 4 ML's each (2 Heavy Slots in the FoC)"

 

threw me off a bit. I see what you mean now! I still stand by my recommendations. Las cannons are expensive and not always worth it, and avoid small squads when fighting Dark Eldar. Cheers, and good luck in your endeavors mate!

[the jeske]

more kill points and they take up 2 hvy slots which BAs often dont have [because 2 are taken by preds and runing a single pred aint good] , the costs is bad too 5 man with 4 RL tries to be LF [which of course it isnt without the 5th weapon and split fire] , then 10 man one costs a lot more then other anti tank support units . In fact I could bby preds and MM attacks for the same points and have options with more optimal weapons . 8 RL is not the same as 12 or 15 , SW can put their support in to LF because they can spam better , 8 RL will strugle against some mecha builds [because we you will be rolling 2 dice and then another unit and another etc] .

[daveclark890]

have you thought about 2 x 10 man squads split into combat squads and each 10 man takes 2 x lascannon and 2 x h.bolter??

 

that gives you a combat squad for anti armour no matter what it is and a combat squad for anti infantry. multiply this by 2 and you have amazing versatility... take out ork battle wagons with las and waste swathes of boys with h.bolters... same with guard mech lists and nid hordes. you have the ability to pop the vehicles and then waste what ever gets out.

 

thats just my mates take on it from my LGC

[Justin2008]

Why don't ya take a 10 man squad, with 3 ml and 1 lasscannon. That way you can combat squad into 2 ml and then 1 ml 1 lc

 

^_^

[syypher]

Hmm I think it's a good idea if your going something like Razorspam with support but after mulling it over in my head I'm having a hard time justifying the 160 point cost difference. That's 5 points less than another RB + 5RAS + 1Melta + TL Assault Cannon that can score objectives.

 

Such a huge points difference! >_<

[Gv0zD]

Honestly, it's a tough question. However I like the idea of 4 ML concentrated fire. If I run devs, I'd take 5-man squad with 4 MLs and put it behind some transport to provide cover. I know it's not a popular idea, but I'd rather not take additional marines, as IMHO it'll consume points.

Still, I tend to agree with the jeske: a few dakka preds would be superior in terms of mobility and firepower than devs (considering you run mech list)

[Anarchyman99]

Why not run two units of 10 with 3 missile and one Las, combat them into 3 Missiles two normals and the other with Las, Srgt and 3 normals. The unit with 3 Missile can give you more hits per unit and the Srgt's Sigum makes your Lascannon BS5 it's only 25 points more per unit for the Las. Your enemy will be tempted to fire on the BS5 Lascannon unit with 3 wounds it can take before stopping the Sigum/Las combo.....but then he/she is not going after 3 Missile Launchers. Just my cents.

[bulley]

Your disadvantage 2 isnt really a disadvantage - this is why your combat squading. If 2 ML's can do the job - you now have 2 to hit whats inside or can go for another target completely, if they miss or do nothing you now have the option of hitting another 2 into it.

 

I really like combat squaded Devs - extra wounds and "Long Fang Esque" targeting - but you need the points to do it - thats the only disadvantage imo. I'd write the list, if you have that extra 80 points you need (or 160) and "cant quite decide" what to put in - think about the combat squad.

 

One advantage, which imo is a biggie, is the cover trick.

 

You have 3 guys in the squad that only have 24" range - put those 3 behind LOS cover or in tree's or whatever, and leave the x2 ML's as far out as they can get into the open for a good LOS/fire lane. They now get 3+/4++ without effecting their fire lanes or even improving it.

[Brother Molon Labe]

Can we see your list and point level you are working with? I'd just like to see where the focus of the army is so I am not giving completely crappy advise that doesn't work with your playing style. Just my overall impression though is 2 full squads of devs and splitting them into combat squads so you can fire at 4 different targets. Also losing one squad won't affect your overall capability.

[vharing]

One thing I want to try is combat squad devs into 4 hvy weapons + bolter marine and then the sarge with PF + 4 bolter marines in a RB. Gives you a combat squad of tact marines and lefts you hvy weapon marines so then can fire and have an extra wound. Though if I was going up against a mech army, I would combat squad with 2MLs in each group.

[Morticon]

One thing I want to try is combat squad devs into 4 hvy weapons + bolter marine and then the sarge with PF + 4 bolter marines in a RB. Gives you a combat squad of tact marines and lefts you hvy weapon marines so then can fire and have an extra wound. Though if I was going up against a mech army, I would combat squad with 2MLs in each group.

:huh:

 

What a really really cool idea.

[Kinzel]

Personally the way i see devs is as weapn carriers for things I might not have an answer to otherwise. By that I mean I can get missle launchers from Typhoons and my Tacs, I can get lascannons from Razors (if I use them as such) what I can't get elsewhere is plasma cannons. And I do love me my plasma... :mellow:

 

 

*edit* ahh forgot.

One thing I want to try is combat squad devs into 4 hvy weapons + bolter marine and then the sarge with PF + 4 bolter marines in a RB.

I like this idea as if you don't want to tac charge with them you can keep the squad intact and just have a Razor run around, or you can keep it as the standard 2x5man with 2ml squads.

The problem I have with this though is the lack of scoring with your mini tac squad but since it's more of a bonus unit anyway..

 

You could also do something random like put a multimelta in the MiniTac squad to give it some utility as a roadblock.

[Captain Idaho]

Makes for an interesting way of getting a body guard escort for an independent character. Cheap as chips, would do it if my Codex Marines had decent Devastators...

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I coulda sworn you done then that before mort.

 

 

Oh wells.

 

I dont get why you're comparing 460pts of models to 200whatever pts. Its not really a fair comparison. That 160pts gets you what? 5 more devastators with Missile Launchers and 30pts to buy something silly. Thats never a bad thing. You could make it 3 squads of 5 with 3 Missiles and buy yourself an attack bike or some lascannons to make it even better. Each sargeant has a zappy laser pointery thing too so that extra sargeant is always a benefit.

[Morticon]

I coulda sworn you done then that before mort.

 

lol - possibly thought of- but not actually played!

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I coulda sworn you done then that before mort.

 

lol - possibly thought of- but not actually played!

 

Isnt that always teh way with you?

 

PS. Im totally stealing bits from your mission pack for a tourney Im running B)