Against the Orks

[Hear da Lamentation]

I had a game against the orks last week. I've never played against them properly (Ive had a doubles game against them once), so was interested to see how they perform - and how I needed to act against them.

 

He had something like ...

Truk with 6 meganobs 2+ 5++ powerfists, Warlord powerfist 2+ 5++

12 nobs 2pf (I think)

12 boyz with weird boy and a powerfist

20 gretchin

5 lootas

10 nobs (I think) - these guys were in reserve and could come on any side of the table they liked. (Cant remember this rule, but I did read it at the time, very surprised that anything could do that without at least rolling.)

 

Mine is (forgive the abbreviations)

RP (JoWW, MH)

8GH mg,ws,motw 1WG pf, cm

rhino

 

9GH mg,ws,motw 1WG pf,cm

rhino

 

10GH 2xpg, motw

rhino

 

5LF 4ml

6LF 5ml

 

WolfLord Magma (bike, th,ss,SoBear,ra)

3 Swiftclaw mb + attackbike hb,mb + WG pf,cm

 

It was spearhead annihalation. He won, went 1st and set up everything in the middle of the table 12" in. I set up 2 GH packs flanked by 2 long fangs opposite him, with my biker lord pack and a plasma GH pack on my left flank (intending on killing off the lootas and backing each other up to stop the bikers being a main target.)

 

He ran at me with everything he had straight for my 2 GH packs. He forgot to roll the dangerous ground tests for his meganobs after disembarking from his truk, but that 12" move, 2" disembark 6" move and 6" assault was easily enough to get him in combat with my 1st rhino. Unsurprisingly he wrecked it. His lootas did very little.

 

I realised I had put my plasma pack too far away to give rapid backup to the other GH (there was terrain in the way, which was why I had to go so far to my left flank). My LF immobilised his truk and killed a loota. Thinking i needed to take out those powerfisted meganobs, I disembarked the other GHs and shot the living daylights out of the meganobs. A few fell, then I assaulted. Killed the meganobs, the warlord taking a few GHs and surviving. Bikers and plasma pack move in towards the lootas and the rest of the melee happening in the middle of the board.

 

His round, he WAAAAAGS, rolls well for all runs and has the rest of his army in combat with my 2 GH squads. To make matters worse, his reserves come in and take out a LF pack. With numbers like 44 attacks per squad attacking me, my GH took their tole, but for the 1st time ever were wiped out to a man in 2 rounds of combat. Nasty !

 

Game ended prematurely at the end of round 3, but by then it was 5 kill points all. I had taken out his meganobs, warlord, truk, reserve squad (shot to hell by remaining LF and plasma squad) and lootas. He had taken out 2 GH packs, my RP, a rhino and a LF pack. I would probably have sneaked a victory if the game continued because I had the advantage of maneruverability and firepower over the remaining orks. I had my plasma pack and my full strength biker lord pack left and he had his boyz a half strength nobs and his gretchin.

 

Still a lesson in the combat ability and speed of the orks. They can move soooo quickly en mass it is worrying and the number of attacks is a force to be reckoned with.

 

I realise I haven't gone into too much detail about the terrain, but it had little effect on the game. However, I would love some feedback on how any of you would have approached the game, or any other advice.

 

H.D.L.

[Lord Ragnarok]

The only way orks can outflank are with kommandos and they cannot come from your back edge unless they have A special nob upgraded character(snikrot). No nobs squads can outflank.

[TiguriusX]

that 12" move, 2" disembark 6" move and 6" assault was easily enough to get him in combat with my 1st rhino

 

Do battlewagons have a special rule granting movement after disembarking?

 

BRB p.67 if the vehicle moves and passengers disembark they may not move any further

[Ulfhedinn]

Do battlewagons have a special rule granting movement after disembarking?

 

BRB p.67 if the vehicle moves and passengers disembark they may not move any further

 

BRB p.70 "The passengers of open-topped vehicles may assault, even if the vehicle has moved..."

[WulfenBrother]

I guess I'm missing something....where in the ork dex does it say meganobz have a 5++??

[WulfenBrother]

I guess he may have had Mad Dok Grotsnik and gave the meganobz cybork bodies.....

[spartan249]

Meganobs never get an invul. The only possible way they could get a 5+ save of any sort is through a KFF mek, which he doesn't have according to that list.

 

And those "nobs" were probably just kommandos.

[WulfenBrother]

The 5++ is possible with Mad Dok Grotsnik, even for meganobz.

[Valerian]

Do battlewagons have a special rule granting movement after disembarking?

 

BRB p.67 if the vehicle moves and passengers disembark they may not move any further

 

BRB p.70 "The passengers of open-topped vehicles may assault, even if the vehicle has moved..."

 

They can assault, but they can't Move and Assault, thus those Meganobz would have had a much shorter range. Also, when they do get to move, they always have to roll as if moving in Difficult Terrain.

 

He definitely had Snikkrot with Kommandos, who get old-school Behind Enemy Lines.

 

V

[vikingwolves]

I play against Orks a lot, and they can't do what your friend did. If that is what you caught, he is probably cheating also in other areas. It sounds like he might be smudging the rules a bit. Best thing to do, this is what I did, I read up on their Codex and find out what they can do. Nobs are burly but expensive. Meltas, Missles, and power fists will do a lot to kill them. That and knowing how to charge them and JotWW them.

[Ulfhedinn]

Do battlewagons have a special rule granting movement after disembarking?

 

BRB p.67 if the vehicle moves and passengers disembark they may not move any further

 

BRB p.70 "The passengers of open-topped vehicles may assault, even if the vehicle has moved..."

 

They can assault, but they can't Move and Assault, thus those Meganobz would have had a much shorter range. Also, when they do get to move, they always have to roll as if moving in Difficult Terrain.

 

He definitely had Snikkrot with Kommandos, who get old-school Behind Enemy Lines.

 

V

 

 

Good catch V...I missed the fact that they moved and assaulted after disembarking.

[Simo429]

Set up as far away as possible and shoot the :cuss out of them, personally I wouldn't have took Jaws even with their low initiative. Living lightening to shoot at long range.

[TiguriusX]

Do battlewagons have a special rule granting movement after disembarking?

 

BRB p.67 if the vehicle moves and passengers disembark they may not move any further

 

BRB p.70 "The passengers of open-topped vehicles may assault, even if the vehicle has moved..."

 

They can assault, but they can't Move and Assault, thus those Meganobz would have had a much shorter range. Also, when they do get to move, they always have to roll as if moving in Difficult Terrain.

 

He definitely had Snikkrot with Kommandos, who get old-school Behind Enemy Lines.

 

V

 

 

Good catch V...I missed the fact that they moved and assaulted after disembarking.

 

 

As did the OP if I am interpreting his report correctly

:cuss

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks guys. Nicely spotted V. Yes indeed - they were kommando's and he did have a "special" in there. I don't know their army very well yet, so apologies if I have missed a few things from his army list. The 5++ did come from an addition they bought, so I guess it must have been Mad Dok Grotsnik.

 

Very interesting about the move and assault thing. So basically he can move the truk 12", disembark 2" and then assault 6". But he doesn't have to roll d6 for the assault because it's "difficult terrain" - not dangerous (as assault ignores difficult terrain tests.) So a range of 20". Is this correct?

Also - I assume he can WAAAGH in the same round, so it is possible for him to move the truk 12", disembark 2", run d6" then assault 6"? Giving a huge assault range of 26". Is this correct?

[TiguriusX]

Thanks guys. Nicely spotted V. Yes indeed - they were kommando's and he did have a "special" in there. I don't know their army very well yet, so apologies if I have missed a few things from his army list. The 5++ did come from an addition they bought, so I guess it must have been Mad Dok Grotsnik.

 

Very interesting about the move and assault thing. So basically he can move the truk 12", disembark 2" and then assault 6". But he doesn't have to roll d6 for the assault because it's "difficult terrain" - not dangerous (as assault ignores difficult terrain tests.) So a range of 20". Is this correct?

Also - I assume he can WAAAGH in the same round, so it is possible for him to move the truk 12", disembark 2", run d6" then assault 6"? Giving a huge assault range of 26". Is this correct?

 

I'm running out the door for work so can't confirm with BRB quotes but I want to give you a heads up on some items. I'm pretty sure of the following (and I'm sure our wolf brothers will correct if I am not):

 

-Assault DOES NOT ignore difficult terrain tests (many an assault has failed due to poor dice rolling)

-A normal WAAAGH can't be declared on turn 1

[Hear da Lamentation]

Very good point TiguriusX. I was mixing up run and assault. It is run which ignores difficult terrain, but not dangerous.

So this becomes 12" move, 2" disembark, 2d6 (choose highest) for assault. Quite a lot different indeed. I was also unaware you couldn't WAAGH on the 1st turn.

 

Clearly I need to get my hands on the ork codex and do some reading. To be fair, my friend is relatively new at this and clearly hasn't got all the rules sorted yet.

[Max_Dammit]

If he's a close friend its best to have a game and read all the rules before doing them, may take a lot longer but as he's a friend you can have a nice day with some drinks and what not.

[nurglez]

you cannot use fleet to assault after running after disembarking, I always thought you could but its in the current rule book faq i think.

 

mega nobs always have to roll difficult terrain when they move, except when they run.

 

if it was mad dok grotsnik with the mega nobs, then they suffer from the rage rule and must move towards the closest enemy unit too, but have fearless and feel no pain.

 

I'll be honest, I rarely have any issue with my friend's ork armies (disclaimer, my friend isn't that great but is getting better :D), sure if they get the charge they get a lot of attacks, but if you charge them they really aren't as scary.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Ive asked him and he was using cyborg armour (he thinks) - not Mad Dok Grotsnik. I dont have the codex so I cant check that out

[Spacefrisian]

you cannot use fleet to assault after running after disembarking, I always thought you could but its in the current rule book faq i think.

 

 

Its because fleet does something else in general, it allows you to assault after you made a run move.

[Gen. Confusion]

Ive asked him and he was using cyborg armour (he thinks) - not Mad Dok Grotsnik. I dont have the codex so I cant check that out

 

I play orks as a second army. There are a lot of little rules you should be aware of so just borrow your friends codex and read through it a few times or buy your self one. It is good to own and read a codex even if you don't play the armies. I own most of the 5th ed codexs even though I only play space wolves and orks.

 

Oh and about the cybork bodies. Meganobs can't take them. Unless he uses Mad Dok Grotsnik.

[TiguriusX]

you cannot use fleet to assault after running after disembarking, I always thought you could but its in the current rule book faq i think.

 

 

Its because fleet does something else in general, it allows you to assault after you made a run move.

 

The GW FAQ was to stop people from using the wording in fleet to circumvent the rules preventing normal disembarking passengers from assaulting. Fleet does NOT provide an exception to the disembarking rules.

 

To put the logical conclusion to this...if you could assault w/o using fleet then you can assault with fleet.

 

So if you are in an open topped transport or assault vehicle it is allowed to use fleet to run and then assault.

[WulfenBrother]

He may have not had Mad Dok in the mega nobz squad but could have still bought them cybork bodies if he was in the army. If so the rage and FNP wouldnt have applied to them.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks again guys. So it does look like he can Waagh and use run to attack as long as the vehicle is open topped (which it was.) Nice range of attack then - 12" move, 2" disembark, d6" run and 6" assault (which would be 2d6" choose highest due to difficult ground check). Average of 20", min of 16" max of 26" with a bunch of guys having 4 powerfist attacks each ..... scary !

 

Like you say, really I need to keep in one corner of the board as far away as possible in order to give my longfangs time to so a little softening up of the rest of his army. Of course, if he goes second then he can deploy right opposite me. In a standard game he is going to be 12" in from his side, leaving 36" between him and the back of my side of the board. If I deploy up to 12" in, he will be 24" away. So the REALLY good thing here from your info is that he cannot WAAGH on the 1st round ! This stops him being able to assault me start of round 1.

 

I'll try to get hold of a copy of the Ork codex - it will be interesting to read up on the Cyborg armour and Mad Doc whoever ... I'm pretty sure he didnt have him in the army.

 

Solid advice as usual Wolves !

[nurglez]

ok, so as far as i know, you cannot give mega armoured nobs an invulnerable save from cybork bodies, as that is only for a regular nob squad (who have bought a pain boy), a warboss can buy one though.

 

also remember most orky transport vehicles are open top, which means +1 on the damage table too.

 

best way of learning how to beat them is to lose to them again and again, this will teach you what not to do.