The Rising Suns

[NightrawenII]

how about Kyushu for the planet

This is like renaming the planet from London to Birmingham.

 

The Adeptus Mechanicus took 20 young boys from the warrior society on Kyushu.

Unlikely. The Imperial Fists (in the book Sons of Dorn) stole away ~2000 young males from one world on a single recruitment trip and got 3 recruits who made it to the Scout stage.

 

Masamori would take on his new role as Yamabushi (Librarian).

Librarian is Psyker. You cannot became one, you are born as one.

 

Takeda Gozen, originally from Baal, aided Takeda Kenshin in a battle. Takeda's fleet were in the area of the Blood Angels home world when one of there outposts were attacked by a company of orks. The Rising Suns responded to aid their brothers in arms. Takeda became seperated from his squad he was leading and was pinned in coverfire by a squad of orks. A Brave young woman who lived locally in the area began shooting at the orks and created a crossfire where Takeda was able to get unpinned and kill the orks.

No. Read about Baal.

Also; Pinned in coverfire by the squad of Orks? It seems like Orks got better at shooting when I was not looking or something.

 

Her family killed during the attack, she left her home world and married Takeda.

Lol, NO. Astartes are warrior-monks.

 

She went thru the transformation to become a Space Marine and was given the name Gozen.

Geneseed doesn't work on females. Give me plausible reason why it works for your Chapter.

 

Please take note on female marines

*snip*

And the last time I checked, there was no “rule” about female Space Marines. Nope, can’t find it anywhere in the “Big Black Book…..”

With all respect to Tiger Raja(I think :) ) this is really poor and desperate attempt to justify the female marines.

[LakotaWolf]

Azul i didnt even say anything cross.......all i asked is lets please agree to disagree on this matter as i am not changing it.........it dont mean you have to like it but am i not allowed creative interpretation......i dont see where any of the 19 implants would be male only

 

i am trying to keep it within the 40K canon but there is stuff i will decide to be creative on........thats part of writing

[NightrawenII]

it dont mean you have to like it but am i not allowed creative interpretation.

You are allowed to be creative, no argument here.... but ya'know. Doing something because you can or want is not creative.

[Espada Azul]

LakotaWolf: The thing is there are limits to where creativity can take you even in a shared universe like that of 40k. Kind of like Marines using Tau technology outside of the aftermath of the Dornian Heresy, or Chapters composed of completely Nulls that are ALSO descended from the Lost Legions. There's a LOT of explaining that needs to be done to not break disbelief.

 

This is not an issue of agreeing to disagree. This is just an issue of you trying to force your ideas unto a universe where there's vanishingly small chances of it being possible. Plus it smacks off the 'Look at me, I'm cool!' syndrome.

 

NightrawenII: LOL It's Brother Kilgore. Get it right man.

[LakotaWolf]

how about Kyushu for the planet

This is like renaming the planet from London to Birmingham.

 

I am sorry is this your homeworld or mine

 

The Adeptus Mechanicus took 20 young boys from the warrior society on Kyushu.

Unlikely. The Imperial Fists (in the book Sons of Dorn) stole away ~2000 young males from one world on a single recruitment trip and got 3 recruits who made it to the Scout stage.

 

didnt read that easily fixed

 

Masamori would take on his new role as Yamabushi (Librarian).

Librarian is Psyker. You cannot became one, you are born as one.

 

never did it say in their he was given the gift........likewise it didnt say he was born with it......it says he became a psyker

 

Takeda Gozen, originally from Baal, aided Takeda Kenshin in a battle. Takeda's fleet were in the area of the Blood Angels home world when one of there outposts were attacked by a company of orks. The Rising Suns responded to aid their brothers in arms. Takeda became seperated from his squad he was leading and was pinned in coverfire by a squad of orks. A Brave young woman who lived locally in the area began shooting at the orks and created a crossfire where Takeda was able to get unpinned and kill the orks.

No. Read about Baal.

Also; Pinned in coverfire by the squad of Orks? It seems like Orks got better at shooting when I was not looking or something.

 

read about BAAL....there is still a human population

squad of orks can number 30

 

Her family killed during the attack, she left her home world and married Takeda.

Lol, NO. Astartes are warrior-monks.

 

She went thru the transformation to become a Space Marine and was given the name Gozen.

Geneseed doesn't work on females. Give me plausible reason why it works for your Chapter.

 

Again lets agree to disagree

 

Please take note on female marines

*snip*

And the last time I checked, there was no “rule” about female Space Marines. Nope, can’t find it anywhere in the “Big Black Book…..”

With all respect to Tiger Raja(I think :) ) this is really poor and desperate attempt to justify the female marines.

 

Again lets agree to disagree

 

last time i knew this was called science fiction

[Espada Azul]

Yes, this is Science Fiction, however it is Science Fiction in a shared universe that pretty much has agreed-upon limits on what and what NOT to do. This is not Touhou, where all characters are pretty much frameworks to be built upon and interpreted depending on the whims of fans. And while this is also not Star Wars, where there ARE official limits of where one can push the lore, there are easily justifiable ides, and ideas that are so out there you'd be crazy to agree with them, as they violate much of the published material. Ideas like the Lost Legions, non-male Astartes, and mixed Geneseed are considered landmines for a reason, you know.

 

Plus citing creativity to violate the in-universe rules is not a valid reason, because you can be creative with your concept and not contradict 'recent' lore.

[LakotaWolf]

If the intention is to make me say forget it I QUIT.........you are making a dent......at this point i am ready to finish on my own and not bother with here..........but i dont want to do that

 

Azure thank you for responding to my message..........honestly when it comes to the novels i have not read them at all so i am not sure which planets have what going on......its very hard for me to sit down and read a book

[LakotaWolf]

Yes, this is Science Fiction, however it is Science Fiction in a shared universe that pretty much has agreed-upon limits on what and what NOT to do. This is not Touhou, where all characters are pretty much frameworks to be built upon and interpreted depending on the whims of fans. And while this is also not Star Wars, where there ARE official limits of where one can push the lore, there are easily justifiable ides, and ideas that are so out there you'd be crazy to agree with them, as they violate much of the published material. Ideas like the Lost Legions, non-male Astartes, and mixed Geneseed are considered landmines for a reason, you know.

 

Plus citing creativity to violate the in-universe rules is not a valid reason, because you can be creative with your concept and not contradict 'recent' lore.

you can cite it 500 times to me no female marines.......show me where there is proof the gene-seed will not work on a female..........read what the actual process is nothing there is male only

[Espada Azul]

LakotaWolf: I wasn't around in the hobby during 1988, but apparently you can find the actual quote alluding to male-only Geneseed implantation in White Dwarf 98, which was then reprinted (with edits) in the Warhammer Compendium, which was THEN put on old UK Games Workshop site (with even further edits).

 

We need some of the old hands to confirm, since they have the actual physical copies, while I don't.

[LakotaWolf]

ahhhh alluding to have reference to a subject not specifically and plainly mentioned

[Espada Azul]

http://www.gamehobby.net/subject_indexes/s...ce_marines.html

 

Taken, word by word, from White Dwarf 98:

 

Take note of the following, under Recruitment:

 

RECRUITMENT AND INITIATION

The various implants cause vital changes in a Marine's physique and mental state. Many of these changes are controlled by natural hormonal secretions and growth patterns. Implants may not prove effective, or may not become frilly functional, if they are carried out once the recipient has reached certain stages of natural development. It is therefore inevitable that recruits must be reasonably young. Tissue compatibility is also essential, otherwise organs may fail to develop properly.

 

The third consideration is mental suitability. The catalepsean node, occulobe, and sus-an membrane will only develop to a useable condition under the stimulus of hypnotic-suggestion. A recruit must therefore be susceptible to this particular treatment.

 

These considerations mean that only a small proportion of people can become Space Marines. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening. If these tests prove successful a candidate becomes a neophyte. With the completion of organ implantation and attendant chemical and hypnotic training, the subject becomes an initiate. An initiate receives training before joining the ranks as a full brother. A Marine usually joins the ranks between the ages of 16-18. Pressures during wartime may accelerate the process.

 

It's more than 20 years old, but aside from everything else that shifted between game editions (recruits have become YOUNGER, if anything), that much has remained constant.

[Whitefireinferno]

Our Objective is to make you quit yes that is exactly what we want .. ^_^ Seriously We just want to help you get onto the right Track in what really is a difficult task and one that is taken in the highest extent here in Liber Astartes . See some Fluff atrocities can be looked over with to a extent or thanks to Creative Writing BUT then again some things are quite in the realms of "Its never going to happen EVER!".

 

Certain things would be to Find What Area you want your Planet to be in. This then Kinda dictates Which Marines your Chapter would be likely to Talk to. And As I did mention Reign in the Asian Overtones since most just seem Forced. Sure you could add some But lets not copypasta wiki's list of historical names.

 

One thing I did mention was the Whole Baal Bit is would you be angry If I came into your house and stole your food/child/Pet? There is also the bit about Most Humans of planets with Chapter Fortresses are As loyal to that chapter as they are to the Emperor for it is their children that get chosen to become Demi-gods in their eyes.

 

If You Must have a Female Strut her stuff in Power Armour Have Her as a Female Inquisitor since it is as close as your likely to get without things getting stupid. She would not be carrying the Geneseed of your chapter and there would not be a love interest between her and you Head of the Chapter apart from a Mutual thing about loyality to the Big E.

 

But yeah I am trying to help

 

*Heh for :P and giggles I re-read that page you linked to and replaced the word women with Corgi for hilarious results But other than that his points are somewhat laughable IMO*

[Ace Debonair]

Uh the BA WOULD NOT give you somebody no ifs ands or buts Unless you are of their stock which you are not and the BA and successors are quite protective of their secret so there is a problem right there. other than that the main reason people are auto no on the women space marines are because Marines are no longer human most do not care for humans at all and when somebody mentions female space marines people will not take you seriously.

 

seriously did i not say please just lets agree to disagree on the female marines...........like you said if she is a regular inhabitant of Baal what the hell would they even care what happened to her.......hey they are marines.....they are no longer human

 

Here's an idea, and I'm surprised that nobody's brought this up earlier.

 

Keep the story and the models seperate.

 

That way you can have as many female marines as you like, but you don't have to keep referring to them and raising the ire of anyone it raises the ire of.

[Espada Azul]

Whitefireinferno: Your tone sir, watch it. I'm not a mod, but we all know what the report button is for, yes?

 

 

LakotaWolf: We're trying to help. This is NOT contemporary Japan, where a nail that stands out needs to hammered down to be compliant, oh no. However if you keep on being bullheaded -- I actually provided the transcript of the article that pretty much says that Marines are dudes to highlight my point -- then this is going to end in grief.

 

Take note, the people posting here are the level-headed ones. The ones with the bowling balls-to-face style of critiques like Octavulg haven't dropped by yet.

[Whitefireinferno]

Okay I do apologise for being kinda mean But Here is what I have to offer You do not need to accept this But you could use it as a Idea and the Like I will change certain things just to give you an Idea on how you could do things and the Like

 

At the Beginning of M?? ??? (add what ever date to correspond with your Founding) and The Cult of Promethean have Petitioned to the High Lords of Terra to create a New Chapter Derived from the Geneseed of Vulcan. The petition was Granted and the Salamanders sent a detachment of Marines to undergo the Founding and take up the task of gathering aspirants, a time consuming Task as the world was ablaze in civil war between different Clans ruled over By what the inhabitants of the world refer to as Daimyo.

 

As the members of the Salamanders Collect the Youth to undertake the conditioning to become Scouts It is evident that the Biological structure of these people have proved to take to it well as evident in the numbers It is only once in a long time that you will get more than a handful of aspirant Scouts that pass the first part of their trial but of the first batch of 10000 we have had 47 survive and take to the augmentation including a select few that have shown signs of Latent psker powers that properly groomed could be the first Liberians of the chapter ....

 

 

Fast forward X amount of time ...

 

A Chapter has been Forged and has Been given the Name the Rising Suns as homage to when the sun abolishes the Rain that is so evident on the Planet Kyushu IV a chapter fortress has been constructed upon the Highest Peak of the Main continent and been gifted a small Fleet of ships including the Battle Barge <Insert name> Now other than the Battle Brothers of the Chapter are their allotment of Chapter Serfs However this differs from the Norm In the Day to Day Culture of these people the Females are as bigger Part of society as the Males And due to Females not being able to take the path to become a Battle Brother, the Rising Suns have taken to solely using Females as their Chapter Serfs they also serve as The Planets PDF and on the Rare Occasion are Taken to battle as well their Losses are Recorded the Same As a Battle Brother for surprisingly these are viewed as a Valuable asset to the Chapter and not just Servants.

 

And yeah that is Along the path I take If I were you and add Asian Culture references to flavour However I would Suggest to avoid any of the Don't s in the Liber Guide Mostly due to the extreme difficulty of convincing people of Female Marines. You could add that Several Females have Been taken to take Part in the Path to becoming a Inquisitor and Return to their homeworld on a regular basis when not off doing her Inquisitor business.

 

But yeah Hope I could be of some help and I do Apologise If I have Been Harsh I am just one of those that Loves the established Lore of the 40k universe and Certain things will need a HUGE amount of work to pass in my books But thats just me.

[Ace Debonair]

Take note, the people posting here are the level-headed ones. The ones with the bowling balls-to-face style of critiques like Octavulg haven't dropped by yet.

Actually, if I may be so bold, I'd amend that to 'the mostly level-headed ones'.

I say this because I'm acutely aware that this isn't the thread to come to for an example of how level-headed we Liberites are. :P

 

Some topics just wind people up - and like Espada says, the heavyweight critics aren't even stepping in yet.

 

I still think keeping the models and story seperate is a good idea. Simply write about the chapter as if it didn't have female Astartes.

That way you don't have to actually get rid of the female marines, and it saves you having to try and justify them. Down that road madness lies, after all. :lol:

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Some topics just wind people up - and like Espada says, the heavyweight critics aren't even stepping in yet.

 

Speak for yourself! :lol:

 

 

Whitefireinferno: Your tone sir, watch it. I'm not a mod, but we all know what the report button is for, yes?

 

Only a bloody Kiwi could get away with putting capitals all over the place mid-sentence. :P

[NightrawenII]

NightrawenII: LOL It's Brother Kilgore. Get it right man.

Negative.

Search of members tells me that the Brother Kilgore doesn't exist. But the Tiger Raja has a Tiger of Veda marine as avatar. + He has link to the Kilgore's site in his signature.

 

how about Kyushu for the planet

This is like renaming the planet from London to Birmingham.

 

I am sorry is this your homeworld or mine

The reason for changing was overplaying the theme. My point still stands.

 

never did it say in their he was given the gift........likewise it didnt say he was born with it......it says he became a psyker

I don't quite understand... but you cannot became a psyker. Psykers are humans born with the gift (or curse, pick whatever you want) of manipulation with warp energy.

 

read about BAAL....there is still a human population

Baal is like mix of Fallout and Mad Max movies, it's certainly different from what you would consider "normal".

 

squad of orks can number 30

Are we still talking abour race who uses the guns, because they like the loud noise the gun produces, not because they want hit people?

 

last time i knew this was called science fiction

Last time I knew this was called Warhamer 40,000.

 

If the intention is to make me say forget it I QUIT.........you are making a dent......at this point i am ready to finish on my own and not bother with here..........but i dont want to do that

Yesssssss, we want you to quit. Do you yield to me?! Yield to MEEEE!! Muwahahahahaha!!!.... :)

 

*cough*

 

Ahem, Whitefireinferno is right. Everything we want is to stop this fluff-butchery, because it doesn't add anything interesting to your Chapter, that's for sure.

 

Take note, the people posting here are the level-headed ones. The ones with the bowling balls-to-face style of critiques like Octavulg haven't dropped by yet.

Some topics just wind people up - and like Espada says, the heavyweight critics aren't even stepping in yet.

Hrrmm*, then all my effort was in vain. :pinch:

 

* The kind of hmm, where is menacing under-tone added. ;)

[Brother Tyler]

Tiger Rajah is Kenton Kilgore, hence "Brother Kilgore".

 

I think the intent behind the Librarian is that the aspirant was a psyker, and so he became the Chapter's first Librarian.

 

When the background material says that only males can become Space Marines, anyone trying to make female Space Marines should expect this kind of resistance. There are ways to put females into the army without making them Space Marines such as making them Inquisitors or Assassins (which is much closer to Shinobi than a Scout). Trying to say that there are no "rules" against female Space Marines is nothing more than flimsy rationalization when the background material is so clear and has been consistently clear ever since the Rogue Trader edition. That said, it's your Chapter. If you're bound and determined to have female Space Marines despite everyone else's resistance to the idea, there's nothing any of us can do about it. We'll all have to just agree to disagree and leave it as a point of contention without allowing it to drive the discussion any further.

 

Others have mentioned the perceived problem of what I call "over-theming", and I agree. Now "over-theming" isn't necessarily something that has to be changed. It's a highly subjective thing, and sometimes the theme is what you want (in which case you shouldn't feel a need to change it). The Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Black Templars are all examples of official Chapters that are, in my opinion, over-themed.

 

This comes down to what *you* want to do with the Chapter. If you want to create a Space Marine Chapter that draws upon feudal Japanese influences, you might cut back a bit. If, on the other hand, you want to take feudal Japan and make a Chapter out of it? Those might look like the same thing, but there's a difference.

 

Using the first method, you start with a basic Space Marine Chapter, then add on a few bits here and there to give it that feudal Japan feel. The Chapter would still largely look like Adeptus Astartes, but with a distinctive Japanese feel.

 

Using the second method (which it appears you're doing), you take the theme (feudal Japan) and then overlay it on the mechanism (Space Marines).

 

My own preference (and the one I think most "Liberites" also subscribe to) is the former - give a Chapter of Space Marines subtle elements from the theme. This results in a more "realistic" (inasmuch as that term can be used with our science fantasy game) end product.

 

However, I think that many of us, myself included, have at one time or another wanted to create a totally themed army. If that's what you want to do, as I said, it's your army.

 

The big take away here is that we are all coming from different perspectives. You have your vision for your army, whereas the "Liberites" are going to present you with feedback, largely from the perspective of the "shared universe". That isn't to say that everything they say is written in stone, but it's provided with good intent.

 

Ultimately, you'll present your ideas, the "Liberites" will give you feedback, and you must decide what to do with that feedback. You get to make the final decisions, since it's your army. You don't have to take the recommendations that are given, but understand that if you choose not to, the issues that are driving those recommendations will remain and the resistance that derives from those issues will remain. The advice to the "Liberites" is to remember that members aren't required to make their Chapter mesh with the shared universe if they don't want to, to accept the decisions of the member that the army belongs to, and to continue to provide good faith effort where it looks like you can continue to constructively influence the member.

[Donkey Kong]

This has certainly given me a right little laugh. Read the OP and post 124. You should feel some déjà vu in the latter.

 

Points for effort, but they certainly won't be helping you here. They didn't help Doctor Thunder's Black Widows, Brother Kilgore's Fighting Tigers of Veda, or Phillip Sibbering's Imperial Guard. The only one I would say they helped would be the White Hands, which many people, including myself, still dislike.

 

If the intention is to make me say forget it I QUIT.........you are making a dent......at this point i am ready to finish on my own and not bother with here..........but i dont want to do that

 

If you're dissuaded this easily, I recommend chilling out, maybe even trying again. My first IA didn't work out, and the second became Librarium quality after a few tries. Second, feel free to finish on your own, you can even have a little site for yourself like the Fighting Tigers of Veda, and be used as a reference for the next person who wants to argue for female marines. But what's that going to show? Stubbornness, laziness, a lack of respect for the lore, not very flattering imagery*. So, think before you quit, and think even harder before you continue.

 

You're also abusing your theme.

 

*

as far as female troops..........i know we have our rule nazis and people who are so stuck on the lore who cant have a little fun or be imaginative........try having some fun sometime.......it really doesnt hurt....i promise

 

Bending rules is usually only fun for one person (You), and aggravating to everyone else (Us).

 

Now i am 40 and boy you try and be creative and do your own thing and they throw the book at you...........if we cant be creative then why have a DIY chapter page.......technically we are all going against the lore in here.............GW never said any of this has occured

 

Going against the lore and working with the lore are two distinct things. Learn that, and you'll last a lot longer here.

 

last time i knew this was called science fiction

 

I quote in response:

 

Last time I knew this was called Warhamer 40,000.

 

you can cite it 500 times to me no female marines.......show me where there is proof the gene-seed will not work on a female..........read what the actual process is nothing there is male only

 

Show me where there is. Welcome to the laws of fantasy. If you can prove it's possible, it is. If it's not, it's not. There's also nothing that stops for you from making your own universe and playing with your own rules. Just get used to being the only one interested.

 

And my reaction to all your fighting:

 

http://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/rofl.gif

[Stazbumpa]

Just adding my tuppence to the thread, my DIY chapter effort is elsewhere on this forum (The White Tigers). Feudal Japan is a pet subject of mine but while my army is definitely themed in this respect, I deliberately ommitted words like shogun and samurai and also any overt references to that period (home world name notwithstanding) because, as someone else has already pointed out, it reads like a history entry on wikipedia and lacks any real flavour. You are writing about the 40k universe, not a samurai universe. You can tone it down and still keep the samurai vibe.

 

My IA was not what I wanted it to be and I'm still working on my chapter, the worst thing I could've done was pretend everyone else is wrong and disappear to finish it on my own. If I didn't want criticism I wouldn't have posted here in the first place. And while I'm here, please, no female space marines. I'm one of the old timers here, I clearly remember the White Dwarf article when it was first printed and there is no way you can have gene seed implanted in females and stay true to the fluff. The closest thing you are ever going to get to a female space marine are the Battle Sisters (I prefer "Nuns With Guns" myself).

 

Just my tuppence on the subject, people here aren't telling you what your chapter should be just what it should not be if you want to keep with the fluff. I hope you can take the criticism for what it is and not as a personal attack.

[LakotaWolf]

At the Beginning of 738M41 The Cult of Promethean have Petitioned to the High Lords of Terra to create a New Chapter Derived from the Geneseed of Vulcan. The petition was Granted and the Salamanders sent a detachment of Marines to undergo the Founding and take up the task of gathering aspirants, a time consuming Task as the world was ablaze in civil war between nine clans or Daimyo as the inhabbitants call them

 

As the members of the Salamanders Collect the Youth to undertake the conditioning to become Scouts It is evident that the Biological structure of these people have proved to take to it well as evident in the numbers It is only once in a long time that you will get more than a handful of aspirant Scouts that pass the first part of their trial but of the first batch of 10000 we have had 47 survive and take to the augmentation including a select few that have shown signs of Latent psker powers that properly groomed could be the first Liberians of the chapter ....

 

 

758M41...

 

A Chapter has been Forged and has Been given the Name the Rising Suns as homage to when the sun abolishes the Rain that is so evident on the Planet Kyushu VII a chapter fortress has been constructed upon the Highest Peak of the Main continent and been gifted a small Fleet of ships including the Battle Barge Yamamoto

 

 

well written Whitefireinferno.......like i said i am not a good writer but i try......this is so much more finished sounding than what i had but still hits all the main points...............kudos...........if you would be so willing to continue translating my insanity i would greatly appreciate it...........as it would suck to match up what i write with this.........i am gonna follow with what Ace Debonair says and not include anything in the writeup that says there are female troops

[LakotaWolf]

I play Space Wolves as my main army so to point out i do like the overly themed chapters that you comment on..........hence why this chapter is overly themed

 

Originally my dreadnought was gonna be this http://gwing-online.com/images/categories/shin_musha_5.jpg

[LakotaWolf]

Kyushu VII will be half way between Raikan and Deliverance in the Segmentum Tempestus

[Apothete]

Take note, the people posting here are the level-headed ones. The ones with the bowling balls-to-face style of critiques like Octavulg haven't dropped by yet.

 

Ahem.