syypher Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 On my quest to make my 2500 Ard boys list I have come up with a bunch of different ideas. A lot of help from my brothers here and I greatly appreciate the more veteran and experienced players here guiding my way. I have another idea from one that spawned from another suggestion. Thunderbubble in BA? Has anyone ever done this? A Thunderbubble is basically 10 TH/SS Terminators + SPriest chilling in front of all your shooty vehicles/infantry. I'm thinking of something like the screen + 2x Baals, 3x Typhoon ML's LSpeeders, 3x AC/LC Preds, 4+ RB's with TL AC or LC/TLPG, Maybe a Tactical Squad or Scout Snipers too. Sounds like a pretty competitive and good idea, but mostly it sounds pretty fun :lol: Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Too many points in one unit for my taste. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
syypher Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 I like the idea of it though and was wondering if anyone has tried it out before and whether or not it was competitive or successful. It sounds like a list I would have fun with but I don't want to invest into it if it's fairly w34ksauce. I just like the idea that it let's me do my shooty BA army with AV13/RB spam but with a CC element I was missing as a almost unkillable bubble from shooting. I mean 2+/3++/FNP will make mass small arms fire cry, and thats the way most people kill terminators. If their shooting at Terminators, their not shooting at my shooting stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Here and there i use Termies in range of my SangPriests...can be a real killer unit especially with a Libby nearby with Unleash Rage but this unit suffers quite quickly with multiple plasma. Had a game against Guard and they used PGs really well. I also found that horde units in CC are rather menacing. I also think that termie assault units need to be ised aggressively and standing them out front invites the charge and is a bit reactive. Still think assault termies have a place in a 'ard boys list. just used a littel differently and in smaller numbers. I also believe that termies are best used with a Libby as stated above and WITHOUT a SangPriest. Often when they attack termies are taking on units that negate FNP anyways and the priests benefit other units so much more as the are not equpped with such fine armour...YET this does not mean that termies should not be in range of a priest. Good luck in 'ard boys! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
syypher Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 Redo. I think the reactive part about it is actually the part I like the most. In a AV13/RB spammed list you are very defensive. Your not usually rushing forward to try to get into CC but mostly using your fast capabilities to run and gun the enemy down. With a reactive force like the Terminators in the front then you can actually have a force to keep your enemies at bay. Agreed though that plasma will hurt the Terminators but if they are fielding a bunch of plasma I will keep them behind the vehicles and move up with them rather than Terminators in front as the bubble. Plasma doesn't scare AV13 as much. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I guess what I mean from reactive is that the terminators themselves may not get the charge and with a foe like orks or tyranids the sheer mass of wounds will bring them down. I once say and Imperial guard platoon (about 50 Guardsmen) take down some terminators (without a SangPriest and no IC). Another thing to think of too is that the this Termie bubble is more like a front wall. These days there are so many units that can infiltrate, deep strike come on from some other table edge or are just plain mega fast that I think that this wall can easily be breached. Just my thoughts but I am not a fan of this idea. Furthermore in a tournament like 'ard boys I am sure that there are quite a few players that will out think the rather static terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 It's a good idea. You want a Libby as your HQ joined to this thunderbubble unit with unleash rage - perfect power to have in a unit of TH/SS terms that is charged. And you get psy hood protection. I'd give him termie armour and a psyhood too. Now for your second power, SoS is the instinctive choice in a Mech list, but if you playtest this and the 4+ cover conferred from your bubblewrap terms seems to work most of the time - Fear of the Darkness seems a better choice? That way your bubblewrap unit 'shoots back' 24" with an annoying power. You could pay points for Corbs reroll. This idea is only good for 2500 point games like Ard boyz, because anything less than 2000, what's the point - just take more mech spam. At higher points, you're constrained by limited FA and HS slots, so using your Elites in this way makes plenty of sense. My main suggestion would be not to take AC/LC Preds, the LC sponsons are a naff upgrade because your bubble works both ways - it's going to block their LOS and give stuff cover. Max your razorbacks and baals to take advantage of their top-mounted turrets. AC/AC dreads could be the better pick than the preds. You could maybe even fit in Land Raiders. I don't think Typhoons really fit what you're trying to do as good as they are. If you take 2 Land Raiders, it means your Terms can combat squad in them and take the fight to the enemy depending on what you're facing. Libby with Rage , fotd, termy armour, stormshield - 200ish. 6x 5 man assault squads, meltagun or flamer 625-650ish 2 Land raiders with lascannons - 215 each. 10 TH/SS terms 450. 4 TL-LC Razors - 220ish Priests 100. 3 rifledreads, 2 Baals? can you proxy stuff? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 I think it's too slow for so many points to be effective... It's a rock paper scissors unit - stuff like mechdar will stay away - versus Orks and Nids you'll have a field day. I would rather run 8 termies in an LRC (character thrown in for optimization) for the mobility and charging out of the moving tank. G :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Sounds like fun to me. I would be concerned about cheap ap2 ranged infantry bearing lists though, so I'd want some whirlies. As for 450 being a lot of points... in 2.5k it's not a huge fraction. I'd also probably want the (singular) priest in a rback, not on the line. Sometimes it'll be better deploying them in reserve and DS + run to hem in (or hem out!) a good enemy fraction that would be vulnerable to them or less than effective at shooting them. You may end up prefering to do this in which case a TDA priest at the back wouldn't be stupid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
syypher Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 I like the riflemen idea over Heavy Predators. I would probably use Corbulo as my priest choice. I should easily be able to pop mechdar vehicles with Rifledreads so they wouldn't be able to run away for long I would think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Holofields are pretty tough plus mechdar can shoot right back. G :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 On my quest to make my 2500 Ard boys list I have come up with a bunch of different ideas. A lot of help from my brothers here and I greatly appreciate the more veteran and experienced players here guiding my way. I have another idea from one that spawned from another suggestion. Thunderbubble in BA? Has anyone ever done this? A Thunderbubble is basically 10 TH/SS Terminators + SPriest chilling in front of all your shooty vehicles/infantry. I'm thinking of something like the screen + 2x Baals, 3x Typhoon ML's LSpeeders, 3x AC/LC Preds, 4+ RB's with TL AC or LC/TLPG, Maybe a Tactical Squad or Scout Snipers too. Sounds like a pretty competitive and good idea, but mostly it sounds pretty fun :P Thoughts? I always think one should give new things a whirl, especially with the tip-top 5th ed dexes. I am thinking like Black Orange. What would you do with the Terms against shooty and/or movey lists? Are you prepared to DS in 400+ points of Terms, which I think would mean the Priest wouldn't be with them, at least initially. Plus you are reserving a unit that cannot shoot. Even if it turns up on T2, it won't be doing anything until T3. That is around a third of a game gone.... How about Deldar, Eldar and even Tau? They'll be able to move as fast as, or faster than, the Terms can go forwards. I am by no means telling you not to do it. I am just trying to help you to think out all of the implications so you can plan for such things. Not everyone plays Marines and Guard, yes? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Holofields are pretty tough plus mechdar can shoot right back. G :P With BS3 single turret wave serpents at 145 a pop for TL-Brightlances. Or Av12 Falcons with Holofields and 3 BS3 Str 8 shots at 180 points each. vs BS4 55 point TL - Las Razorbacks, or BS4 215 Land Raiders armed with two TL LCs and Machine spirit I'd take a LR with MS for 215 over a Falcon with Holos for 180 anyday In 4th ed it was no contest, Falcons were far superior to Land Raiders. In 5th, it's been turned around, and the LR is better bang for the buck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 It does something the turn it lands if DS. It can with a fair run deny a lot of the table to the enemy. (I do this to prevent the second half of a fast movers range) It can also cause damage by receiving charges. Being the one that does the assaulting isn't so huge a deal with pure SS termies. Sure, 50% less attacks but one's going last anyway. Anyway, if an enemy takes two turns to destroy 450/2500 non-scoring points, he's in trouble. (unless you're doing worse lol) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 In 4th ed it was no contest, Falcons were far superior to Land Raiders. In 5th, it's been turned around, and the LR is better bang for the buck. If you're runing TL Brightlance Serpents to try and pop tanks you're doing it wrong IMO ;) In this day and age the far cheaper missile launcher is far better. You have a minor loss at AV 13-14 but the potency of the small blasts vs. Infantry is indeniable. People have this view of Mech Eldar(And by that I meant 80 billion empty serpents + 3 Fire Prisms/Falcons kind of mech dar) being the best of the best but I dont think thats true. Its great sure but I think if you build a more integrated list with actual useful squads in the tanks you're going to end up with a stronger list over all. Especially with great toys like the new night spinner which provides more then the Fire prism and way more then the Falcon ever could for the eldar. I'd take my 160pt Night spinner over any of my land raiders any day of the weak. Its got alot of great elements that no one else has in this day and age. Like being able to zip about and lob nets on people across the board whilst they are hunkered down behind a big hill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2602949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Mechdar is a tough army to face. I do think a shooty mech BA list is a bad matchup for mechdar though. G :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218211-thunderbubble-in-ba/#findComment-2603083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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