Upgrading this list

[Br0ther Rafen]

hey guys

a week or two ago, i posted a list which ad lots of termies with Cyclones and Thunderfires.

here it is:

 

HQ

Libby

Gate and Null

 

Elites

5x terminator Squad with Cyclone and Chainfist

5x terminator squad with cyclone

5x terminator squad with cyclone

 

troops

Tactical Squad

Meltagun and Multimelta

Rhino

 

tactical squad

Meltagun with missile launcher

Rhino

 

heavy support

2x Thunderfire Cannons

Dakka Predator

 

1500 points on the dot.

 

before, i asked what could be replaced to make this better at 1500 points.

Now, i'm asking what i could add for a 2k list.

i am thinking to use 10x squad of termies with 2 cyclones and comabt squad to maximise fire power, along with a tactical to beef up my scoring since i have 2 at best.

What could added to make this better?

thanks in advance for any input, C&C welcome.

Rafen

[Mysticaria]

You are going to need some Fast Attack at that point level. I would take a look at getting some Typhoon Landspeeders to capitalize on all those Cyclone missile launchers that you have. Also, you are a little light on anti-tank so MM/HF speeders or MM attack bikes might be a good option. That's the easiest thing to add without messing with the army you have.

 

There is no reason not to take 10x termies in one unit, you actually get one more powerfist doing it that way and you still have the option to combat squad or not. I think you should do this, and open up one more Elite slot for some sternguard or dreadnaught possibilities.

 

-Myst

[DarkGuard]

Pretty much what Myst said, get a couple of Typhoons perhaps to complement your cyclones, and definitely get a couple of MM/HF Speeders. I remember arguing very much against Gate at first, but if it works for you.... Perhaps consider Curse of the Machine Spirit for when you fire those cyclones at vehicles?

 

Definitely put together one unit of 10 Termies with 2 cyclones, in fact, if you can make the points for it then add another 5 Terminators, combine two of the squads, and now you have two squads of 10 Terminators with cyclones. You also might want another scoring unit, so consider a Scout squad with camo cloaks, they'll benefit massively from the TFCs improved cover save.

 

In fact, what I would do is:

Add 5 more Terminators with a cyclone for 230pts to one squad, combine two of the other squads into one squad of 10.

Add two MM/HF Speeders.

Add 5 Scouts with camo cloaks and a heavy bolter.

Should leave you with 20pts for playing around with, so combi-weapons on the Sergeants, or add chainfists.

 

That's what I'd do though.

[Br0ther Rafen]

thanks Darkguard, i was thinking on 10x combat squading Termies anyway.

i do agree with the land speeder loudouts, though i hate fragilty, but you give me some advice on running them? a bit off topic, i know, but whenever i use MM/HF Speeder they almost always get shot down without doing anything significant, even when i get the first turn. is it just deployment problems, or is there other things to take into account?

back on topic, i would rather not use 5x Scout home objective grabbers, because 5x guys never do much, while a 10x squad can help quite a bit against enemy squads and what have you. What about an extra Land speeder instead? this will get me 30 extra points to spend (from memory) which i can use for a Terminator Libby.

What about that?

thanks for the help so far.

[Mysticaria]

What about a scout squad in a LSS? Meltabombs, combi-melta... if you go first you can use it as a suicide melta unit to scrap any Landraiders and such, and if you go second you can outflank it. The 24" scout move should help you get to use it before it gets scrapped because you can be out on a flank, or behind terrain. Seems like your terminators might benefit from a unit that can distract the enemy lines for a turn.

 

MM/HF speeders getting killed to easy could be a number of things. Are they being deployed out in the open? Are they the scariest thing in your army? If so... they are probably going to get killed pretty quickly. You can protect them by putting them out of line of sight (terrain, LR, etc..) or by deep striking them. I've seen a few people on here suggest deep striking them since you get to melta something as soon as you come on. Personally, I'd just try and get cover saves and swamp the enemy shooting with lots of threats. Then again, I like the added safety of Typhoons operating at long range.

 

Landspeeders seem like a good fit in this army (especially typhoons) because they share the same defense characteristics of T-fire canons. They are both AV10 and in the case of the Typhoon they operate at range. The same types of guns in your opponents army will be deciding between shooting at Typhoons or T-fires. Either way, one of them is going to live longer. If you go with Typhoons, you really will have quite a lot of missiles on the table. Pretty much my ideal army against Tyranids. :) Still, the only thing you don't have covered is threats that are beyond the Krak missile's ability to deal with. That's where the suggestion to get some fast moving melta comes from. Only you can decide how much you are comfortable including (or not including).

 

-Myst

[Br0ther Rafen]

Well, when i deploy it, it would go behind some cover and wait it out for a turn or two when my opponents guys are in threat radius. but, by the time they are in range, they kill it, and it becomes a waste of points. And if, i so much as think of deploying it in the open, my oppenents guns will blow it apart from like 72", which means that i can't retaliate. It does get really frustrating.

What about 2 Typhoons instead of MM/HF ones? they would be great for countering oppennets at max range.

[DarkGuard]

The problem with including Typhoons in this list is when you run up against multiple Land Raiders, or Leman Russes. If you don't encounter many of them then feel free to add more Typhoons, they certainly complement the list better as you then have a lot of missile launcher shots, but the fact that you have so many cyclones mean that Typhoons aren't neccessarily needed, rather MM/HF is needed for fast melta.

 

About the Scout snipers, I only suggested them because you have only two Troops at 2000pts and that might be a little too little. Ideally you should have both Tactical squads with multi-meltas (you have enough missile launchers with the Terminators and Typhoons), and so they don't want to be sitting backfield. A small Scout sniper squad does this, and it works well with the Typhoons. True, small squads don't do much damage, but then that's not their job. Their job is to sit on an objective in cover (hopefully fortified) and survive.

 

Also, I would suggest that you don't consider the dakka pred written in stone. If you think more Speeders or something would help, consider taking the dakka pred out.

 

If you don't want to use Scout snipers or MM/HF, I'd agree with Myst's suggestion of a combi-melta squad in a melta Storm, should help with hard tanks, can score, and quite nifty.

[Br0ther Rafen]

What i was originally planning was using more tacticals in their Rhinos, and rushing forward with lots of Melta.

Would that work? because the thing with a lot of my games is that they are either IN YOUR FACE assualt armies, or stay far, far away and shoot you with artillery while grubs and what have you rush foward to distract you. Which is why I really need mobility against some opponents and against others it doesn't really matter so much, which is why i'm against 5x scout teams sitting on the objective and either a getting blown to pieces by artillery and tanks, or b getting assualted by 30x orks in a mob, or bugs, etc.

[DarkGuard]

More Tacticals in a Rhino can also be good, but I wouldn't want to spend too many points on a third scoring unit, especially as you have two big Tactical squads. If you want something mounted then a Tactical squad with combi-flamer in a las plas Razorback would suffice. Of course, don't skimp out on the rest of your list, and if you find two Tactical squads fine at holding objective at 2000pts then stick with them.

[Br0ther Rafen]

the thing is, i haven't developed a list that is "uprgraded" from 1500 that is based on this list. all of my other 2k lists are upgrades of other lists that i have developed in the past.

anyway, i'm not favouring anything in particular, so i am pretty easy with whatever would suit this list the best, except for Sniper scouts, which i have already covered.

[DarkGuard]

Well if that's the case then I'll reiterate that I'd make the Terminators into two squads of 10, each with two cyclones and a couple of chainfists. Then some Land Speeders of either Typhoon or MM/HF configurations. Or (and I can't believe I'm saying this), melta Typhoons. Long ranged anti-tank, and can rush in with a melta if you need to. If you feel you need another scoring unit then definitely a Tactical squad, I'd favour a small one in a las plas Razorback. And perhaps give your existing Tactical squad each a combi-melta, help with fast response on targets needing melta.

 

Of course, Lysander is always an option, I hear he's a brilliant chap to take with Cyclone Terminators. :)

[Mysticaria]

Of course, Lysander is always an option, I hear he's a brilliant chap to take with Cyclone Terminators. ;)

That sounds pretty good too!

 

Missile Option: Severe missile spam, long range, lots of 2+ saves, trouble with AV14

230 = 5x tactical termies with cyclone missile launcher

270 = 3x landspeeder typhoons

 

Melta option: 3 more fast melta componants, +1 scoring unit, adds Lysander to the mix, no additional termies

140 = 2x MM/HF speeders

90 = 1x Scout squad with ccw/bolt pistols, Combimelta, Meltabombs

65 = Landspeeder Storm with Multimelta

200 = Darnath Lysander

5 = 1x chainfist to one of the termies

 

I like both of these, but the second one looks more flexible. Adding Lysander really complements your termies, and the other three additions address the fast melta that you need. It feels like it adds some components that your army doesn't currently have. The first option takes your strength and builds on it, but doesn't address your weakness. The second option tries to fill the weakness. Depends on your playstyle, but honestly they both look fun to play. Either you are shooting a billion missiles a turn, or you are going to have units flying all over distracting the enemy with melta while the terminator noose closes around them. Fun fun fun.

 

-Myst

[DarkGuard]

Or for the second option, if you want more Terminators, then Lysander and the Scout squad and Storm can go, replace with additional Terminators and cyclones, and fill in the points with however many MM/HF Speeders you can fit in.

[Br0ther Rafen]

having 26 Terminators on the field? (libby) yes please :pinch:

that, plus some extra lan speeders or upgrades, etc, and i think that i could be set. i am still a bit worried about my tacticals, but i don't really need to rush forward, do I? i can just contest his objectives with my terminators.

thanks for all of the help guys.

Rafen.