Tips on making a proper DIY thread

[Brother Tolstoy]

You won't believe it, but I've started my DIY thread three times already and never posted it. I've researched the Liber Astartes section and basing on the number of answers checked most popular of them. And I can say I'm still eager to learn before I make my 'proper' thread. So I need your advice again.

 

Brothers, could you share your opinion on the best presented DIY chapter in terms of pictures, fancy headers and structure? Links and commentaries to your choice are welcomed.

 

I think this thread will be very helpful for those starting their first thread and maybe for those who feel their presentation is a bit clumsy. Thanks in advance for your links and commentaries. And I'll better get back to typing my fluff:)

[Apothete]

Others can certainly chime in and give you their opinions about the best-presented Chapters, but I think I can speak for more than myself when I say that we're going to care an awful lot more about the crunch and fluff than we are about pretty pictures and dolled-up headers. It doesn't matter how much attention and effort is put into the surface level of the work if it doesn't have anything beneath it. To that end, it's probably a lot more important to pay attention to your writing and the things you want to convey than it is to worry about how your layout looks, at least at first.

 

Once you've gotten past that point, then it's time to start looking at things like formatting through the BBCode, examples of other Chapters and their flourishes, and so on. At that stage, you can start looking at the Librarium for examples that have been made it over the bar in the more important sense, the Liber Honouros in this very forum for those selected by Ferrata and Barret, and perhaps even some of the work being done amongst your fellow Frater.

 

Basically, put substance first and then polish.

[Darrell]

Apothete and I are of same mind on this issue. Formatting and pictures of your homeworld and sidebars are all fine and good, but these are polish. If you're just starting a thread, more important are the conceptual aspects of your Chapter; their beliefs, their history, how they fit into the 40K universe and how the 40K universe sees them in return.

 

Also, don't be worried about your thread appearing "perfect". I can assure you, there is no such thing as perfect on the Liber Astartes forum. Besides, if everyone posted threads with Chapters that were totally complete and without flaw then we wouldn't have a job!

 

However, if you really are concerned about presentation, I'll give you a few points to get you started. Again, though, this is more with an eye to a Chapter in development than a finished project:

 

1) Check out the official Index Astartes articles if you have them, or can find them, and see how their information is laid out. Generally, the article is broken down into categories like "Origins", "Homeworld", "Combat Doctrine", "Beliefs", "Geneseed", et cetera. I suggest following a similar format when you first post your thread. Keeping information categorized is not only cleaner to the eye, but helps us analyze individual aspects of your Chapter without combing through walls and walls of text.

 

2) Leave out things like sidebars and headers initially. Most, if not all, Chapters that come under Liber scrutiny go through quite a few major changes as the core concepts are hammered into life. You may find that the sidebar you had in mind needs to be chopped entirely, or an entire section's inspiration is replaced and needs to be redone from the ground up. In short, you will find yourself doing enough editing of raw information alone. You don't want to be constantly changing the cosmetic appearance ontop of that.

 

3) Pictures are not really necessary. If you want to show us a picture of the color scheme, that's fine, but color schemes are a relatively minor concern at the beginning. Same story with pictures of homeworlds or of galactic maps showing us where your Chapter's fleet is currently located. The foundation of the article is where most of the first criticism is going to be aimed.

 

Honestly, just get the ideas down in a format that reads well and can pass for a rough draft IA; Liberites will be more than happy to tell you what else we'd like to see from there. My original posts normally have sections detailing things like inspiration, things I want to get across in the article, bullet-points of concepts and some other pieces of information that I take from one of my notebooks from which most of my ideas spring. It helps to let people understand where I'm coming from, and thus also helps them give me direction on how to get there.

 

Everyone presents their article a little differently, as it should be. We're not interested in seeing carbon-copy articles running off an assembly line. While like a basic structure to be followed, we also like to see individual personalities of the Chapter and the author adding their own flavor to the mix.

[Brother Tolstoy]

Oh, Darrel comes to the rescue again!:P Ok, then, I don't think that the photoshop planets I'm working on now will spoil my thread anyway, but I'll try to focus on text more. Still I believe that a plain text thread won't attract as much attention as a vivid one will. I don't say I'm going to substitute the text essence with the pictures, just wanted to know if there's anything that went unnoticed by me accidentaly. I hope all you Liberites know what it's like before your first post in Liber.

 

Darrel would you mind if I adress you directly via PM instead of spamming the Liber when I have some questions to ask? Thanks again for being helpful!

[Darrell]

You can ask me directly if you want, but I'm not around like I used to be. I'll do my best to answer questions when I can, though. The great thing about threads versus PM's, at least about general topics like this, is it helps other people who are like-minded but have not posted for whatever reason. But, my PM box is always open for anyone who wants to ask me something.

 

As for pictures getting attention, I think you'll find that text alone is perfectly fine to get responses if the ideas are solid. I know that, when I'm looking over an article, I mainly focus on the Beliefs section to find out if a Chapter is something that I want to read and comment on. If the Beliefs section rings a bell with me, then I'll go through other parts of the article. I'm sure other people have similar ways to figure out what they want to read and comment on. I wish I could read them all, but my critiques tend to be rather long-winded and I end up taking pages of notes as I go through the IA which I then use for my response in the thread. That process can take quite a while and, as Octavulg put it in his DIY suggestion post, it's simply not possible to give fair attention to everyone.

 

Lots of people on the Liber these days, though, and I'm sure everyone can find at least one person to give them some initial feedback. Once the first feedback comes in, it tends to snowball since someone will eventually disagree with what that person said and chime in to voice their own opinion, that someone else wants to add to, et cetera. Even if no one responds initially, though, keep editing the thread and posting your thoughts. Someone will pick it up sooner or later.

[Brother Tyler]

Something else to consider is that the Index Astartes format isn't the only format around. It is the most widely used, and for very good reason. However, using that format isn't a requirement. Imperial Armour Volume Nine: The Badab War - Part One presented us with another format (someone recently posted their DIY using that format). It really comes down to what information you want to develop and how much information you want to develop. The Index Astartes format develops a substantial amount of information. The IA9 format also develops a substantial amount of information, but it shifts its focus to battle honours while "streamlining" much of the information you'd find explained in greater detail in the IA format. If you're willing to put in the effort, you could always develop a lot more information than either of those formats.

 

You could just as easily develop a lot less. When you get down to the very basics, all you really need to develop for a DIY Chapter is a color scheme and heraldry (including Chapter badge, squad markings, company markings, and whatever other markings you think you might need for your army) and the rules you're going to use. You don't even need to come up with a Chapter name. That would be pretty boring, though, so most of us like to develop some amount of detail.

 

I've seen DIYs presented as graphic novels, short stories, and in other formats that aren't "Index Astartes". It's really up to you, so don't feel pressured into developing a format or information that you don't want to. The members of the B&C are here to help, but ultimately it's your Chapter to develop as you see fit.

 

I concur with the recommendation to stick to content first, though. If you know the format you want to use, let us know that up front so that we can focus our efforts and advice accordingly, but don't worry about making the product sexy yet.

[Darrell]

I've seen DIYs presented as graphic novels, short stories, and in other formats that aren't "Index Astartes"

 

Edit: I use the term "you" below in only a general sense. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, least of all Brother Tyler who has as solid a perspective on this subject as anyone.

 

I have also seen a wide variety of ways to present the information, however, I have always very much liked the IA style because it has a very streamlined appearance and tells us what we need to know about a Chapter to understand it at its core. Other methods, such as short stories or Inquisitorial reports, tend to water down the information about a Chapter with relatively unnecessary tidbits like battle histories or biographies of certain Astartes. I think an IA is a great way to make the foundation for your Chapter and generate initial interest, much like a resume.

 

It is a simple, concise way to tell people about your Chapter. It covers all of the important aspects of the Chapter, and forces the author to give us the most important pieces of information above everything else. It makes you focus. It makes you think. It makes you really consider who your Chapter is and why they are that way. It is the foundation upon which you can build.

 

From there you can write more things to give your Chapter depth, because the strength of the IA format is also its weakness; it has no room for frills. An IA keeps you from rambling, but it also keeps you from elaborating. You can write up an Inquisitorial report on a certain war, or write a short story about your Chapter's history and some of its characters, or whatever else you want to do to flesh out your Astartes more. However, I think every Chapter should have an Index Astartes article in some form just because it is so useful in telling readers what they need to know to be interested. It is an easy way to introduce people to your DIY and say "This is who they are, this what they are about" without forcing the reader to wade through pages and pages of stories or look at your Chapter through biased eyes of a character.

 

The Index Astartes article doesn't need to be the end of your DIY concept, but I think it should be the beginning or be very close to the beginning. It is only my opinion, of course, but I see the format as being far too effective to not use.