What happens if a chapter leaves?

[Alys]

I was trying to work out what to do with a mass of Blood Angel figures, and was wondering about some succession chapter. Rather than just being "BA with a different colour", I wanted to write some fluff, about how the Black Rage was worse with them, and in fear that they were corrupted, they left the Imperium, hoping to find one last war they could throw themselves at. They destroyed their monastery, slaughtered the local population in the belief that their very presence has now tainted the civilians, and took themselves through space, looking for any final battleground.

 

Problem is, they don't find their final battleground to fall on. They threw themselves into many battles, taking casualties but their ferocity and disregard for their own lives and honour means that they kept winning. It's in the throes of melancholy that they can't even seem to find that final battle, that something else just adds the icing to the depression cake... that their over-succeptability to the black rage was directly tied to a genetic imperfection in the population they recruited from. Recruiting from a population without the imperfection, should drive the black rage back to 'acceptable' levels, slightly higher than that of the original Blood Angels.

 

Realising this, what happens now? In theory wouldn't their records now be removed from Terra? If they contacted the Imperium again, explaining the situation, would they be welcomed back with open arms, or (more likely) torched as heretics? As they recruited from "tainted stock", would they just be seen as heretics anyway, no matter how pious they are?

 

In this case, what options do they have? If they now throw themselves away as recklessly as they did, then they are now just wasting the faith placed in them by the Emperor, but is this going to turn into a Soul Drinker's thing?

 

The theme was to have these battle scarred dark red marines, each with a scratched clean shoulder-pad, to represent their leaving of the Imperium. I did want to have them as mostly red, with armour plates of different colours, to represent that they are now scavaging from the battlefields to repair their armour, desperate to survive, rather than before where they didn't care if they lost pouldrons or greaves as long as they got into combat.

[Darrell]

Much of that depends on exactly how they present their leaving. Instead of saying "We're leaving the Imperium", they could say they're going on a penitent crusade and leave it at that. Most people aren't going to question a Chapter policing its own, and no Space Marine is happy to air the Chapter's laundry in front of strangers anyway. If the Imperium finds out they torched their homeworld, though, that would probably earn them some unhealthy suspicion (Especially since it appears most of the Imperium either does not know, or is happy to pretend to not know, the Black Rage exists) as to their motives.

 

I would also like to point out that, assuming they are out for a "final battle" and aren't interested in self-preservation techniques like keeping up repairs and recruits, then they will eventually die out. Battle prowess and rage aside, even if they lose one Astartes in every battle they fight in, they can only keep that up for so long before their numbers drop to such a low point that they're pretty much gone already. No recruits and no geneseed being harvested from fallen Astartes is pretty much a death knell.

 

I would also like to know how they would come across the weakness in their previous recruiting population so far after the fact. Assuming they either kill everyone on the planet, or leave and don't go back, I don't see how could find this out. If it's a matter of them just testing the Astartes themselves, one would think they would have figured that out a long time ago since I'm sure that would have been one of the first things they looked at when they first became concerned about the Black Rage (Possible mutations or impurities in the Astartes, then in their recruiting base, or maybe vice-versa depending on the extent of their pride).

 

One thing is for sure, though, and that is the Imperium is not big on forgiveness. If a Chapter turns their back on the Emperor and Mankind, they are going to, at the very least, be declared a loose end that needs to be tied. Worst case scenario, they're declared excommunicate. Either way, getting back into good graces with the High Lords would be very difficult, if possible at all.

[Alys]

Which turns them into the Soul Drinkers, minus spider legs.

 

Desperation could be an answer to the lack of testing, and to be honest how would they know from the start that the black rage would be effected by some imperfection of the population? I would imagine none of the recruits from any of the worlds are "pure" compared to Terra. Seeing the Black Rage taking further hold could just end up with the marines clawing at their visors and cursing Horus for their Primarch's death.

 

However, although I love the whole "Oh by the way, it's your own fault that you're all succuming to the Black Rage" plot, I do wonder if it would hold water. Why would they be testing, in transit to each battlefield? If they did find out, then aren't they pretty much at fault anyway for not doing rigerous enough testing in the start, and they'd still be in a "we are not pure, let's die" mood.

 

Hmm.

 

See my original idea was to have this mish-mash of marines. Mostly to remove the monotony of painting one colour scheme, where a group of survivors stranded on the far side of the galaxy, end up on an Incredible Journey, planet hopping to try and get the resources to put together/obtain a warp cable craft, in a galaxy that thinks the imperium is a myth. galaxies and planets uncover more marines left to die, including an insane dreadnought (being buried on a battlefield for the last few centuries does that to most people), and this mish-mash of marines, different chapters and views, but all with the common goal to return 'home'.

 

But, then the chances of that happening are lesser than the succession chapter of BA overlooking imperfections, and then half way through their suicide drive, realising that it's all fix-able.

[Darrell]

There's always the possibility of doing up a Legio force, or a Deathwatch force, since both of those organizations would fit your original scheme. There's also times where different Chapters will unite in a crusade against a common force and, while they wouldn't amalgamate into the same Chapter, they would share a campaign badge and would be fighting with each other. Alternatively, maybe your Chapter just encourages individualism to a great extent. They may have Chapter colors, but each Astartes also likes to customize their armor however they see fit; similar to the Delta Squad group of Republic Commandos from the Karen Traviss novels, who use additional paint colors on their white armor to stand out in Mandalorian tradition.

 

There's also nothing wrong with a concept sharing certain aspects with another concept. Any renegade Chapter looking for redemption may conjure up references to Soul Drinkers, much like any FPS is inevitably compared to Halo, but that's where you should focus on differences instead of similarities. Sure, your Chapter may be in a situation similar to the Soul Drinkers in a broad way, but the specifics could be extremely different. The way the Chapter handles it is extremely different. The personalities are different. As long as you strengthen those differences, no one is really going to draw anything but broad comparisons to anything else.

 

As for the problem about finding out the impurities of the recruiting population, the easiest way I could see that being fixed is to tone down the reaction the Chapter has in terms of just shutting down mentally and looking to die. If they found another recruiting population, the Apothecaries could almost certainly find some key differences in relation to the original recruitment source. Maybe the difference is genetic, maybe it's environmental or maybe it's cultural. But, the cause never jumped out at them before because the Chapter simply didn't have the context they needed. If they've been recruiting from the same population for centuries, or millenia, then they wouldn't have had a need to compare and contrast. Although, if they had been recruiting from the original world for such a long period of time, it would raise the question of why didn't they realize the problem sooner? Or why hadn't the problem manifested itself sooner?

 

That would be a good way to play on a problem I am surprised more Astartes don't encounter, which is reverse evolution. If Astartes are constantly taking recruits from a single homeworld, and are only taking the best of those recruits, they are removing the best genes from the genepool. Eventually, the genepool would start to stagnate and weaken, or minor mutations would become more prevalent (The way we see tusk-less elephants more in regions of Africa and India because, since they are not hunted for their ivory, they live and breed to pass their genetic flaws to the next generation). Maybe the Chapter had suffered heavy losses recently and their recruitment process had been stepped up so high it drained the population's good genes? Maybe they had just been over "harvesting" for so long it was bound to happen sooner or later anyway. But, realizing that was the cause, how do you stop it? Chapters need recruits, and they need those recruits to be strong enough to be Astartes. How do they get those recruits without long-term damage to the population? Lots of interesting areas to explore there.

[Alys]

There's always the possibility of doing up a Legio force, or a Deathwatch force, since both of those organizations would fit your original scheme. There's also times where different Chapters will unite in a crusade against a common force and, while they wouldn't amalgamate into the same Chapter, they would share a campaign badge and would be fighting with each other. Alternatively, maybe your Chapter just encourages individualism to a great extent. They may have Chapter colors, but each Astartes also likes to customize their armor however they see fit; similar to the Delta Squad group of Republic Commandos from the Karen Traviss novels, who use additional paint colors on their white armor to stand out in Mandalorian tradition.

 

That actually is a good comparison. Clone troopers are generic, yet that one squad stood out, because their individuality was encouraged, near enough. That original idea was just because I wanted something that hadn't been done before. This mish-mash of marines all under one temporary banner, having to throw aside differences and hatreds for a common cause. However, barring allowing me to paint any and every chapter I want, it's as hole-y as a strainer with extra holes drilled into it!

 

There's also nothing wrong with a concept sharing certain aspects with another concept. Any renegade Chapter looking for redemption may conjure up references to Soul Drinkers, much like any FPS is inevitably compared to Halo, but that's where you should focus on differences instead of similarities. Sure, your Chapter may be in a situation similar to the Soul Drinkers in a broad way, but the specifics could be extremely different. The way the Chapter handles it is extremely different. The personalities are different. As long as you strengthen those differences, no one is really going to draw anything but broad comparisons to anything else.

 

This is why I was wondering about their ability to return to the Imperium. the SD threw away that link, believing the Imperium itself was the problem. This chapter would be as loyal as any, but felt they had to go and purge themselves, and as such notified the 'authorities' that they "may be some time". However, the fact that they then all but destroy their fortress and home-planet's population, as you said, would cause some concerns when the inquisition go calling.

 

I wonder how important it is, for Space Marines to be part of the Imperium again. Would they, as a chapter, bow down and let themselves be governed by the Inquisition for a while? Or, be sent on missions to test their faith, which normally end up as dangerous as their original suicide battles? Being refused when they go to help other chapters, due to the rumour of taint and heresy? Many regular people would shrug their shoulders at some point and say "I didn't want to be a part of your silly group anyway!" and walk off... but would a chapter bleed it'self down to the last marine to prove their loyalty?

 

As for the problem about finding out the impurities of the recruiting population, the easiest way I could see that being fixed is to tone down the reaction the Chapter has in terms of just shutting down mentally and looking to die. If they found another recruiting population, the Apothecaries could almost certainly find some key differences in relation to the original recruitment source. Maybe the difference is genetic, maybe it's environmental or maybe it's cultural. But, the cause never jumped out at them before because the Chapter simply didn't have the context they needed. If they've been recruiting from the same population for centuries, or millenia, then they wouldn't have had a need to compare and contrast. Although, if they had been recruiting from the original world for such a long period of time, it would raise the question of why didn't they realize the problem sooner? Or why hadn't the problem manifested itself sooner?

 

I do like the shutting down and dying mentality, but the problem is, there's no real way to change it. Why would a chapter that is destined to commit a long and drawn out suicide, wish to recruit (and then discover the problems)?

 

However maybe the chapter had turned morose. They refused to fight in main battles as they were scared of being uncovered as 'tainted', to the point where the inquisition was alerted. It was only during a recruitment drive, after losing many marines defending their home sector, do they come across the problem. A company of marines who chased the remaining attackers from the sector also started recruiting on their way back, and then this is where the fresh, untainted gene stock comes from. Seeing it in the most negative light, they turn on the population, who they blame for this, and then blow chunks out of the planet, before getting as far away from the tainted world as possible. The Inquisition turn up, to find the monastery in ruins, the population turned to ash, with maybe the odd survivor who tells them how the "blood stained giants" turned on them.

 

 

That would be a good way to play on a problem I am surprised more Astartes don't encounter, which is reverse evolution. If Astartes are constantly taking recruits from a single homeworld, and are only taking the best of those recruits, they are removing the best genes from the genepool. Eventually, the genepool would start to stagnate and weaken, or minor mutations would become more prevalent (The way we see tusk-less elephants more in regions of Africa and India because, since they are not hunted for their ivory, they live and breed to pass their genetic flaws to the next generation). Maybe the Chapter had suffered heavy losses recently and their recruitment process had been stepped up so high it drained the population's good genes? Maybe they had just been over "harvesting" for so long it was bound to happen sooner or later anyway. But, realizing that was the cause, how do you stop it? Chapters need recruits, and they need those recruits to be strong enough to be Astartes. How do they get those recruits without long-term damage to the population? Lots of interesting areas to explore there.

 

As the chapter is now space-based, with a strong desire to not settle down again, in case such a taint creeps back into their numbers, they start to recruit on the 'fly'. Each battle, they fight along-side the population, partly due to some deep down guilt over torching their home planet, but mostly as they can assess the population for potential recruits, which are isolated and taken to the ships. Some-times, they have even reached the conclusion that a fight is lost, and rather than stay to make a difference, they have taken their recruits and left.

 

They have a strict policy now put in place, that screened planets are only to be harvested once every two or so centuries, and as such travel through known space, testing the population and recruiting. Any found to have genetic imperfections could either be black-listed... or be torched as they start to lose their guilt over their home world's destruction, and wish to eradicate taint from the galaxy.

 

To the planets that have good recruits, they are seen as almost humanitarian in their actions. Any attack on those planets is responded to as priority, and the marines will do their best to keep the population safe, even to the point of lifting survivors from a warzone to safe havens. This however is more of how a slaver would care for his slaves, as they would fetch a better price. To the chapter, this cattle must be protected, maybe even from themselves.

 

Now they have a very... well, chaotic feel to them. They still worship the emperor, they still want to be a part of the Imperium of man, but in their wake, they have destroyed their home world's population, and then gone on a crusade to not only find good gene-stock and protect it, but to also cull imperfection. I'm not sure how this would be seen by the Inquisition or other chapters.

 

Also, while not many marines would be part of a governing body on a planet, would a chapter consider leaving marines on planets that contain purer gene-stock, not only to have a fast response if the planet is attacked, but also to ensure that the population is not tainted... or does nothing to taint themselves. "Stop creating space faring vehicles!" "Don't trade with that guy he has three arms!" "Don't hug the genestealer!"

[soddinnutter]

Kill off population of homeworld because it is believed to become genetically impure? That is expected of the Astartes.

 

Obliterate Fortress because of possible taint or spiritual corruption? Most if not all Chapters would be quoted as saying 'Hand me the Nuke'.

 

Begin Penitence Crusade? If your Homeworld and Fortress (with accompanying reliquary and Gene-seed storage capacity, maybe?) have just been put to the torch then ALL you Brother-Chapters will demand nothing less.

 

Fighting with no regard for self-preservation? That's what marines are for. Genetically speaking they are a dead end anyway and each knows they will die in battle eventually. They are on a 'Penitence' Crusade and as such any who die honorably have been forgiven and are with the Emperor in Paradise.

 

Abducting people and treating them, at best, like cattle? That's standard recruitment procedure for many, many accepted Chapters. The Imperial Fists (in the book Sons of Dorn) stole away ~2000 young males from one world on a single recruitment trip and got 3 recruits who made it to the Scout stage. This was considered quite a good little trip.

 

Discovering that the fault of all the perceived taint and increase of genetic imperfections within the gene-pool of the old homeworld was a direct and unquestionable result of overgrazing and poor management by your Chapter? Then by God you better hope that the =I= never finds out because from then on there will be an Overseer from the Ordo Militum breathing down your neck for the rest of time and maybe a bit longer.

 

Possibility of becoming repentant and returning home, rebuilding the Fortress and importing new gene-stock to bolster and enhance the local population. Its not like your Chapter is going to lack genetic testing equipment and expertise. And its not like the Underhives of Necromunda, Terra, Armageddon and Mordia (to name a few) are going to miss a bit of unwanted meat going missing.

 

On the whole the idea of a Chapter of the 'Unwanted' sounds more interesting, to me at least.

 

The Ultramarines practice Death Oaths that are for all intents and purposes one man Penitent Crusades/Protracted Suicide Missions. Most Chapters are descended from the Ultramarines. In the book Dead Sky, Black Sun it is very strongly implied that many chapters perform similar methods of exile. And that's not including the Brothers that go on pilgrimage to Terra and never come home or the ones who are not found at the end of battle and are assumed to have been incinerated/dissolved/vaporised/eaten/buried or just plain lost.

 

If one Brother in Exile got hold of an Astropath for a few hours he might locate a another Unwanted and they might sense a certain kinship from their shared suffering. And then they find a third. And a fourth. They claim their first victory. A Tech-priest owes them a favor. They accompany an Explorator Expodition to the Galactic Utter South. Under a mountain of rubble the Astropath (who ran away to join the circus) senses a mind under a mountain of rubble in a collapsed Hive. A hibernating Dreadnaught from the now extinct Shadow Wolves is found, racked with grief for his dead order and tormented by loneliness he joins the Unwanted. A score of years pass, more brothers have joined them. Now, at 23 brothers (Including the Dreadnaught), one Wandering Tech-priest, a runaway Astropath and enough spare cash to hire a Rouge Trader for short system hops they are a force to be reckoned with. Their means of recruitment is to find those discarded and sent to die. Where one Marine would fail and die alone they drop the full hammer of their Tiny Chapter and claim Victory, and offer the New Unwanted a place to call home where they are appreciated, or to go back to those who discarded them.

 

Many spit on their former oaths of loyalty, as the loyalty became only one way, and join the ranks of the Unwanted.

 

After half a century their numbers have grown to 37 Brothers, the Book of Victory has had many pages filled in, Imperial Guard regiments sing hymns to their memory (they accompany Guard regiments often because they have to hitch rides on their ships to get around), Rouge Traders bid for their company, Explorator Fleets petition them for their presence, The Inquisition calls on their help (when they can't find anyone more reputable) and every victory for the Emperor, every triumph for the divinity of humanity is a two fingered salute to those that cast them out to die alone and forgotten.

 

Hell, if your not going to use the idea of the Unwanted I most definitely am.

[Alys]

That's a nice fleshing out! I'd got as far as the basic view, and how they started to obtain the various characters needed (tech marines, astropaths etc), and then the guy who runs the GW store told me it was a bad idea, and no space marine would ever do that, so I gave up.

 

It does mean, that the paint schemes could be rather fun.... as they scavenge from the battlefields to repair their armour. In the older SM codex, I had given them traits like, limited vehicles (as most of their vehicles are wrecks stolen from the battlefield, and only part working), but better infantry traits.

 

I don't see why you can't use it, you've put in a nice wad of flesh for it. When the weather gets better I'll try painting up a figure, my first ever Ultra-marine maybe... add a mass of damage and the odd off-colour plate, and maybe see how it works out.

 

How would they represent their Unwanted status? I'd originally thought that they'd paint over their chapter symbols, and replace it with a hand-painted icon. I was thinking an X, but that's Death Company.

[soddinnutter]

The Guys At The GW Store often talk out of an unconventional orifice i have found. One once i remember quite vividly spent about 15 minutes in a rant about my Chaos Orks being an impossibility. They are GW cannon. Everyone else liked my Orks.

 

Also by that logic no marine would ever turn to chaos, their would never be in-chapter spiritual crisis, schisms, sect-dissension, The Fallen, unofficial civil wars that the =I= get told are just overly enthusiastic training exercises or that merry band of barely sane outcasts that Uriel Venturis encountered in the book Dead Sky, Black Sun.

 

Would they keep their own paint work as a sign of where they have come from or as an esoteric insult to their parent chapter? Would they have their own personal heraldry? Would they post their armour back to their old chapter with a goodbye note pinned to the helmet as a means of severing all ties? Would they Ever take to the same Campaign as another chapter? (Because even the Salamanders would probably take offense at their very existence).

[Alys]

I was thinking something similar to deathwatch, where they keep one shoulder pad as a link to their original company, or, as you said, an insult. However, black's been done, so unless it's metal (to represent that they scourged the paint work off their armour), then I'm not sure. (plus... kinda Grey-Knight-ish? However, I'm guessing that untreated ceramite could start to oxidise in the environment, so they could end up with a rusty sheen about them).

 

In theory, once they find the right people and tools, it would be simple to hose down their armour in a new colour (minus one or two areas, as supposedly the machine spirit in the armour does not like to be fully painted, and parts of it must be the original colour), but then how do you work out this colour? The UM's of the group will think a nice royal blue will be a good starting colour. The Dark Angels would call Green and so on.

 

On a modelling sense, if you did go with black, any "battle damage" could be fun. You'd take out a larger piece of the black than normal, paint in the original chapter's colours around the edges, and then the metal.