Brom MKIV Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Greetings and happy holidays B&C! Let me begin by saying that first and foremost I am a gamer, then a model, and lastly a painter. However, I have been working like mad on my deathwing models and I really want this army to turn out well. Still, it seems that I just cant get the clean crisp look that many of you accomplish and I dont know why. The pictures aren't the greatest (cell phone) but in person the paint just doesn't look as smooth as many models I see on the B&C. Whats the problem?! Is it the color scheme, or do I need to wash the models again as a final stage? I currently use a wet pallet, thin my paints a little and base coat the models in grey which seems much better than black. I also use foundation paints and washes and utilize dry brushing and layering techniques. Experienced painters please take a look and drop some knowledge on me as I really want my painting to improve! Thanks and cheers. Also more pics to follow. http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/myDW1.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/myDW2.jpg And without flash: http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/myDW3.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/myDW4.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/myDW5.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortsonfire79 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 I think they look real nice. The barrels should be drilled out. And maybe bring out the purity seals tabbard part, and the write some purity stuff. :lol: I think they're very nice though, great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amalric99 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 It's hard to tell from the pictures, they look pretty good! If the finish isn't very smooth it is possible that your paints are still too thick. Thinner paint will need more layers but should end up smoother it's all a question of how much time you want to spend! Even using the foundation paints I think you are still better off if you need two or more layers to get full coverage. Do you use a spray primer? Sometimes that can go on slightly lumpy if you spray from too far away or don't shake the can well enough. (Try running it under the hot tap for a minute or so before shaking and spraying). You would notice the primer was slightly grainy though before you start painting. Try thinning a touch more first, maybe on a spare figure or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 First off, I think your CML guy looks awesome. Very cool pose and given the resolution of the photo, comes out looking pretty good. If you have access to a camera, that will help us see more. However, if you look to the lower right of the chest eagle/shield, it does appear that the paint is a little lumpy. This would indicate that the paint is a tad on the thick side. The way you can correct that going forward is adding a little more water than you currently are. As has been described in other posts, you want paint to have the consistency of thin milk. Not heavy whipping cream, but thin milk. It may help you to actually pour a small glass to see how it flows. That is what you are striving for. That also means more layers, but considering that you are doing Deathwing, it's Ok because you have fewer figures to apply this level of painting to. Also realize, you are very close to where you want to be, so keep plugging away. Tip: If you are striving for a higher level of table top looking figure, I would shy away from dry brushing. Dbing is a great way to highlight raised detail or for quickly applying color to a large number of figures for lower levels of table top coverage, but if your stated goal is to go a bit higher than that, then I would leave that out. For what you are trying to accomplish, Dbing is only going to build up paint in areas, most likely leave a grainy texture which you will then struggle to smooth out. So, I'd drop that step and just focus on adding more thin layers. I think you've got the right colors for DW. I would go back with a thin brush and add some scripting to your purity seals. Also, and this is just me, but I tend to go over my purity seals with a layer of very thinned white (it should be slightly translucent, say 1:5 drops, paint to water). I do this to help them stand out from the bleached bone. Also, it looks like you could go over the wax part of the seal with a highlight of Blood Red on the raised parts. So, to summarize: 1. You are on the right path, just keep plugging away at it 2. Drop the dry brushing step 3. Try thinning your paint just a little more (have a glass of milk...and a cookie :) ) Great work so far! Now get back to it soldier! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LardO'Blood Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 They are looking pretty good. Though I can't give you any (good) advice, how did you make the torso on the CML terminator? Is it a PA-TDA fusion using the command squad champion torso? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 Thanks for the replies guys! It helps a lot to know im on the right track. My paints are definitely thicker than thin milk so that is a great tip. I feel enlightened now since several of you have mentioned the thickness of the paints, i will thin my paints more and go for more layers. My spray primer is an automotive grey primer and actually leaves a super smooth coat so its not that. I will also toss dry brushing out, although I did use it on some of my "test models" and your right, it does make for a powdery rough texture so another good tip there. Its been quite awhile since I did that conversion but iirc the CML guy is a stock TDA with the front torso from the black templars upgrade sprue and the bolter arm and head from the DAs upgrade sprue. You'll have to do a bit of cutting to the chest and helmet area to get the head to fit and the chest to match. Hes one of my favorites. Thanks again and keep em coming! Edit: Im gonna try the purity seal suggestions now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burias-Drak'shal Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Looking good. My comments pretty much the same as above, and keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Update time. So I have taken the advice you guys gave me and I must say this is the best work I have ever achieved to date! Thanks for your help and any further advice would be much appreciated. Below is a pic of my cleaned up CML guy and my DW apothecary. Sorry for the poor picture quality. http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/myDW5-1.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/myDW8.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/myDW7.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Sharp Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 My, my we seem to have stolen a GK for the Deathwing. :mellow: Looking good. My suggestion would be to find some ways to introduce more color into the mini (talking about the apothecary), especially on the weapons. As it is right now, the painting is pretty well executed, but it looks a little bland. There's just too much of the same color in areas. Some ideas would be to paint the casing of the weapon and the reductor a different color. I'd suggest green or red. Also, you could get some pure white areas into the model as well seeing as how it is an Apothecary. I did that with my Apothecary and was pleased with the results. http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/s...rp/IMG_0404.jpg A red casing on the reductor made it stand out on the arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 the deathwing is not above scavenging to replace damaged TDA, especially since we haven't received much love lately from the imperial armory. Haha actually I just figured since our dex has a kind of old/venerable feel to it that some GK/ancient type armour could be appropriate, as opposed to the new bling of UMs/BAs/SWs :P. I'm glad you mentioned the colors because I have been thinking the same thing all night. When I get a chance I will definitely take your advice. Nice apoth BTW. So what do you think of maybe even adding some dirt and grime back to the armour? My test models in the first set of pics tried to capture the worn image more, and while they turned out somewhat sloppy I am starting to think that they were easier on the eyes than the pure white scheme is. Thanks for the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Phoenix Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 You sir know how to make some truly bad-ass looking terminators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Ah, much better. I'd say you got the bone color down. It looks much smoother. Very good. Since this is DW, I would look to get a little DA Green in spots to give you the accent color you're looking for. Then highlight that up. Personally, although I don't like bland either, I do prefer subdued schemes, so I would not try to "brighten" up the image. Also, be very, very careful of how you add dirt and weathering because nothing can mess up a nice figure like poorly applied dirt. Also, before you attempt a dirt technique, think about how your bases are going to look. It will be important that they do not steal the focus away from the figures, but enhance it. Considering all the bone you have, a neutral "urban" scheme (i.e. grey-ish) might work. A simple sand will probably turn the figs invisible, so I wouldn't go there. A darker base would also be appropriate, something like Beastial Brown earth color, with static grass. Once you've figured out what the base will look like, then consider dirtying up what you spent precious hours on. Always, always, always work up a test base before you apply any technique to your finished figures. This is akin the the old carpenter's rule, "measure twice, cut once". A technique I am currently playing around with is artist charcoals mixed with rubbing alcohol. Check out my Dornian Heresy thread in this forum. Basically, get artist charcoals, scrape some off the stick with your hobby knife, then mix in the rubbing alcohol. After mixed up, you can then paint the mixture onto the feet of your figure and they look dusty. Also because the alcohol evapourates quickly, you get a quick turnaround on the technique. After it dries, the charcoal looks "dusty" on the areas it was applied to. However, with as with anything new, practice first. Keep up the excellent work! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanofAngels Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I really like your deathwing. One thing that might help give them a bit of character, as mentioned above, is to add some Dark Angels iconography or colors here n there. Also, a nice base always adds a bit of character to the model. I have one finished DW model I can post if it would help you. Just let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Thanks for the kind words! Those are actually two of my favorite models, many are stock standard unfortunately but I do have a few more modeling surprises to post, once their painted of course. I really appreciate the tips as my painting has improved by leaps and bounds recently. I will avoid the dirt and weathering for now and focus on adding a little more color to the models, although I am also a fan of subdued schemes. Thanks again, and once the other 14 DW are done/almost done I can start painting my MK1 LRC conversion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Heres another update of my deathwings progress, this time an interrogator chaplain. Lemme know what you think, if you can make out the blurry pics :teehee: Also I actually didnt use chaos black because I ran out so had to improvise :) He'd read you your rights...if you had any! http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/3-4.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/1-3.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/4-4.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/2-4.jpg Also what are your opinions on the deneb stone + sepia wash method vs. what I am doing with my bone scheme? Would I just be better off doing my army this way? (not completely satisfied with the flat appearance of the bone now, looking for more depth :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamicspartan Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I love your terminators! Your chaplain looks great but I have one complaint, the symbols on the front and back of the book are upside down :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 thanks :) Not sure what you mean about the front of the book but the back I definitely missed...aaargh! Ah well hopefully my gaming buddys wont look as closely heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 And one last update for the chappy, my first time attempting a flaming weapon http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/5-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidKits Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 how is it you guys can make those grey knight like helms using normal terminator heads... is there a tutorial for that? always been curious on how its done and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian Doyle Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 That chaplain rocks! I'd try painting one test terminator using the technique of the scrolls and tabard of your chaplain on the armor, IMHO it will look deeper and more interesting than the bone you have now, not that it looks bad, but it's a bit flat as you stated. Let me see if I can find the GK style helmet tutorial, I know I've seen it in this forum... Edit: Found it!: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...showarticle=231 Nice and pretty simple, as you can see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Another update, this time I have changed the base colors a little and so have included a comparison pic. Let me know what you think. http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/1-4.jpg And a guy my friends have dubbed "the lumberjack" http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/2-5.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/4-5.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/3-5.jpg And one more close up (cell phone cam, sorry) http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/1-5.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 They're very nice miniatures and your painting is coming along nicely too. My questions to you would be as follows: 1. What do you want them to look like? 2. How much time do you want to spend on them? You've clearly got a good grasp of the basic techniques and now it's a question of how much further you want to go with them. For example, your miniatures seem to have a very flat, single colour for the armour (that could be the photo). If you want to add a little more realism, you could add in more gradual layering up to your palest colour. I'll give an example of a terminator I painted back in 2007 (I think): http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o126/Gillyfish2010/DSCF0059.jpg This was pre-foundation paints, so it was painted over a white undercoat with vomit brown which was then washed with flesh ink. I then (rather laboriously) painted scorched brown into the joints between armour plates to give greater definition, before mixing vomit brown with bleached bone and layering it over the armour. From there I got to pure bleached bone and then repeated the process by mixing that with skull white until I got to pure skull white. The key here was to paint lots of thin layers, gradually lightening them whilst leaving some of the earlier colour/s in the areas where shadows would pool. This miniature was one of my first using this technique. I've since refined the process a little, using more gradual and subtle mixes, as can be seen here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...t&p=2268242 With the advent of Space Hulk I've started using foundation paints over black as an experiment and have found that thinned dheneb stone makes a good basecoat with a couple of washes of sepia over it. I then start layered highlights from bleached bone upward. I'm not 100% convinced yet, as it gives quite a flat tone, but I will work with it until I get what I want. Layering as I've outlined can take a long time, but using dheneb stone as your basecoat does help remove the need to do the vomit brown stuff! Ultimately, it's a matter of practice and patience. Does that help at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Thanks gillyfish! The photos do make them look a little flatter than they actually are as I have done quite a bit of layering, although not of the same quality as your models which look amazing by the way :) I appreciate your help, and everyone elses here at the B&C. My painting has improved tenfold just within the last month. As for the questions: 1. They actually look nothing like I really want them to (see jays deathwing on cmon) but I am still very pleased with them. I am trying to use a limited pallet to focus on whites and reds, no dry brushing and no metals. Some of the flaws are actually from swapping weapons and accidents over the years :) 2. My goal is to paint one model every day, no matter the amount of time. My plan is to field a completely painted Deathwing army of decent tabletop quality, although once "completed" I will continue to work on every model. Cheers for all the responses so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamicspartan Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 thanks ^_^ Not sure what you mean about the front of the book but the back I definitely missed...aaargh! Ah well hopefully my gaming buddys wont look as closely heh Sorry for the miss understanding lol, but I meant the front and back covers :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Update time! After this next model I will probably just post any additional pics in a new thread in the dark angels forum. Some may remember a conversion I was working on about 2 years ago which I posted pics of...it was an out of production MK1 land raider. Well I finally got the nerve up to attempt a paint job. This is my first tank I have ever painted, and also the first attempt at a somewhat "weathered" look. I wanted this model represent one of the oldest crusaders in the the dark angels arsenal, Belials personal rolling shrine. Keep in mind that I am not an expert painter and actually consider my modeling skills to be better than my paint skills. With that said, all comments are welcome :tu:. Thanks for looking. -Brom Edit: damn cell phone camera sucks. The front says "Vae Victis" http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/3-6.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/1-6.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/4-6.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/2-6.jpg http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp17/dominuschao/5-3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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