Trouble with orcs

[SpaceWolf13C]

So how would you play against this list?

 

in 2000 pts hes running roughly...

 

2 big meks with the kustom force field

 

4 squads of boys in trucks with rockets

 

2 deff dread troops

 

9 killa kans with grotzookas

 

9 warbuggies with tl-rockets

 

so he has 24 vehicles with 4+ cover saves on everything, very hard to take down.

 

i'm running a rune priest with LL/MH in a jump pack

 

10 skyclaws w a PF flamer

 

5 greyhunter squads of 5 with a flamer, motw, rhazorbacks with tl-assault cannons

 

5 wolf guard with thunder hammers

 

2 packs of long fangs with 2 LC and 3 ML in each squad and rhazorbacks with LC and tl-plasma gun

 

 

 

so my question is what would you do differently with my list or how would you play it to ensure a victory. around turn 3 it seems like everything i have leaves the table. i'm not able to put out enough firepower to whittle his walking tanks of doom down to manageable levels. anyone have experience with playing against this kind of list? any list ideas to try?

[Grey Mage]

Umm.... Id go ahead and mass fire on two of his trucks with typhoons and long fangs. Then Id shell the hell out of them with a pair of whirlwinds. My 40 Grey Hunters would brace for impact, and my pair of dreads would hold the flanks. Rune Priest would probly be set up with Murderous Hurricane, so would be casting stormcaller the first turn, maybe 2. And lately Ive been running the Thunderwolf riding Iron Priest with his 4 buddies- theyd tackle a mob of killa khans ASAP.

 

Id probly infiltrate the scouts if I got turn 1, OBEL them if I got turn 2.

 

Edit: I should note, its not disimilar to a list one of my weekly opponent runs with works.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Okay, hopefully this is helpful :tu:

 

I don't like Jumpers, outside of BA. DoA really makes them good at it, makes Vanguard deadly and with Sang priests making them tough [which you need when you don't have a transport] they really are the masters at it.

Also, Blood Claws are less effective than Greys, and so this also transfers to Skyclaws.

 

So drop the Skyclaws.

 

The Wolf Guard go with the Greys? Perhaps the TH should be swapped for PF and Combi-Mg or Flamer....

You don't need the i1 effect and the extra chance of popping a tank or roasting boyz is a worthwhile swap.

 

Asscan Razors are, imo, also the domain of the Bloods. AC are short ranged, but good at killing AV and men. No problems when you can move 12" and still shoot. You can go forwards, backwards and sideways, always out of reach of the foe, yet pouring fire into his face. However, for the rest of us, 6" movement and shooting a 24" gun is less desirable. Your foe with be on you if you wish to shoot and if he catches you, he'll be hitting you on 4s when assaulting.

 

Laplas, as you have on the Fangs, is a good thing.

 

The Fangs. Whilst I love LC for my Templars, I am not a fan of them for the Fangs. It is a big increase in points for not a massive increase in performance.

 

Whilst I am interested in helping, perhaps if you told us what was in your collection, we could be more helpful than giving you our dream lists that probably don't match what you have....

[SpaceWolf13C]

thanks GM and MW. Well i have in my collection 15 blood claws, more grey hunters, another long fang pack, a rhazorback, more wolf guard that can be set up however, a wolf lord on TWM with a TWC squad set up minimally for wound allocation, a wolf priest on bike and 10 swiftclaws, a WGBL and 10 scouts. o and a landraider crusader and a redeemer. 4 termies

 

and my group has no problem with proxies until we can afford the real thing so fantasy lists are ok too

[Grey Mage]

15 Long Fangs then, with Missile Launchers.

 

10 Grey Hunters, Bolters and Plasma. Atleast one with a rhino. Givem Totems, and probly powerfists just in case the walkers hit your lines.

 

The Crusader, 15 Bloodclaws and a wolf Priest.

 

And the Swift Claws and Wolf Priest.

 

That should bring you close to 2000pts. Use the rhino squad to support the Crusader, and use them to take enemy objectives on the far areas with fire support from the Long Fangs.

 

Turn 1 the Long fangs should pop every transport the orks have. Do what you can in that area, but go for no movement at the least- an immobilized transport is about the same as a dead one eh k? Once thats done switch to killing walkers of course. Switch to fraging the incoming horde as needed to thin each mob below 20- though truk squads will start out that way.

 

The Swift claws should actually be used as a pre-emptive assault force, or to support the LRC squad if your in a take the far objective mission like capture and control.

 

Nothing fancy needed- youll go first every time as orks are I2, I3 on nobs, even with furious charge they wont be going at I4 as most nobs will be toting powerclaws. So just keep firing as they close on your objectives. Then pop your totems, counter attack and watch the carnage insue.You lose some men, true enough, but baring spectacularly bad rolls youll come out in good condition.

[Macharim]

Also a neat trick is to use JotWW to "snipe" the Big Meks when (and if) you get them out of the trukks. You have a 50/50 chance of killing him and will most likely take down a few boyz as well. After that it should be a lot easier to thin his lines.

[Brother Nathan]

agreed, kill the meks, kills the saves... ^_^

[Marshal Wilhelm]

So the strength of his list is the AV flood. This can overwhelm your heavy weapons by giving them too many things to shoot at. Then backed up by the Meks+KFF. Hopefully all of this keeps you busy and then the Dreads & Kans come to deliver the crushing blow.

He does not have Battle Wagons?

 

Generally the plan of action, against any foe, is go after the light transports first. No sense trying to pop a Land Raider and probably failing whilst four Razorbacks are blowing you apart. You block his Land Raider by putting stuff in its way [speeders] and/or get them near enough to half range melta it. Probably a few times. You stay meched up as best as you can, maintaining mobility and relative immunity to his shooting.

 

Wolves have many strengths. One of them is Fangs, the best (?) heavy weapon infantry in the game. Another is Rune Priests, multiples of them are bringing Auto cannons via Living Lighting.

 

2K Wolves.

 

Rune Priest. - 115

LL, MH. Chooser of the slain, melta bombs

 

Wolf guard - 43

PF, combi-Mg

 

Grey Hunters pack. 8 - 185

Mg, MotW, Totem

Rhino

 

Rune Priest. - 105

LL, SC. Melta bombs

 

Wolf guard - 43

PF, combi-Mg

 

Grey Hunters pack. 8 - 185

Mg, MotW, Totem

Rhino

 

Rune Priest. - xx

LL, JotWW.

 

Wolf guard - 43

PF, combi-Mg

 

Grey Hunters pack. 8 - 185

Mg, MotW, Totem

Rhino

 

Wolf Guard - 23

combi-Flamer

 

Grey Hunters pack. 5 - 115

Flamer.

Razorback

 

Speeder - 70

MM, HF

 

Speeder - 70

MM, HF

 

Speeder - 70

MM, HF

 

Long Fangs. 6 - 215

5 ML

Razorback, Lasplas

 

Long Fangs. 6 - 215

5 ML

Razorback, Lasplas

 

Long Fangs. 6 - 215

5 ML

Razorback, Lasplas

 

1997pts.

 

This is a list I would use as an all comers and isn't specific [or tailored] to fighting these Orks. Obviously it does not have the fabled ThunderLord and TWC, but you can't have it all :(

 

Basically you are just trying to blow the foe off the table.

 

The three Rhino-Greys move forwards 12" and pop smoke. Unless you have cover to move up against, and then you can move just 6" and LL from the Rune Priests.

The Lasplas backs shoot LC at the BigMek trukks. Then a Fangs pack, splitting fire against both. As soon as you get them out of the trukks, use LL from a 6" moving Rhino or the HB Razor or if they are nicely clumped, hit them with Frags.

After the trukks are dealt with, then move onto the warbuggies. After that, the Kanz, then the Dreads.

 

The small Greys pack are for your home Objective, in either of the two Objectives games. The two flamers are for crowd clearance if any boyz get that far. Don't expose them [or the Razor they are in] unnecessarily.

 

The combi-meltas and PF should be enough to help your midfield Greys should the fearsome Dreads and Kanz get too close.

 

The Speeders keep behind the Rhinos, or thereabouts. Snipe at 24" with the MM. Then when the chance comes, double team the Orks with them and their buddy Grey pack. The MM should be belting the AV10 vehicles, all of which are open-topped, giving you +2 on the damage roll.

Even the AV 11-12 walkers will be toasted.

The HF are still good enough to hurt even the Walkers from behind, and are horrendous against boyz, you won't be getting cover saves anymore....

 

Stay patient, don't deploy too far forwards, be wise with your target priority. Ideally, he is de-meched and running out of walkers by T5.

 

In Objectives games, you can always contest the ones he is holding with your Speeders and Rhinos. Remember that you want to be pushing towards Objectives on T4, otherwise, should the game end after T5, you'll have not given yourself enough time. You should be getting there, with some strength, on T5.

 

Good luck :)

[SpaceWolf13C]

mk thanks yall. i was actually gonna try to take out his transports first next time which is what i usually do in any game but since hes got so many walkers that are hard enough to take down i've been concentrating on them. i've also considered running a 4 rune priest list with LL on all. u say lasplas over anything else then? i was considering dropping that weapon and maybe going with TL-LC. so far my ACs have done all the killing and the lasplas has no kills (maybe one killa kan). i agree that running a ML spam on the long fangs might be best against his list but how do you find it fairing against other armies such as IG or land raider spam? thats why i mix the 2 LCs in each squad so i have a little more confirmation on a dead tank. Personally though i've never ran all MLs.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

mk thanks yall. i was actually gonna try to take out his transports first next time which is what i usually do in any game but since hes got so many walkers that are hard enough to take down i've been concentrating on them. i've also considered running a 4 rune priest list with LL on all. u say lasplas over anything else then? i was considering dropping that weapon and maybe going with TL-LC. so far my ACs have done all the killing and the lasplas has no kills (maybe one killa kan). i agree that running a ML spam on the long fangs might be best against his list but how do you find it fairing against other armies such as IG or land raider spam? thats why i mix the 2 LCs in each squad so i have a little more confirmation on a dead tank. Personally though i've never ran all MLs.

 

Auto cannons, ML and LC are all for AV10-12 stuff. I know that the LC is s9 and so in theory is as good against AV13 as the ML is against AV12. Very true. However, LC are over priced and so are too few to provide quantity of shots to get the job done.

 

You can get three ML Fangs compared to two LC Fangs. Whilst the extra strength is nice, you just are not getting enough for what you are paying.

 

lasplas is the best of the Razors. tlLC is good, no doubt about it. When compared to having a second gun [remember that one weapon destroyed result only takes off the LC or the tlPg] the re-roll to hit is not as good.

If anything gets close, you can pump three ap2 shots at it, great for killing Sang guard and the like.

Don't mix up what your dice are doing [it seems they are a little unlucky against the Orks] with what the gun 'should' be doing. Keep focused on the long term and the dice should average out. Hopefully ;)

 

LC do not reliably take out AV13-14. That is the domain of melta weapons, s8-10 mêlée weapons [hitting AV10 for the s8 weapons] and chain fists. You've got some of those. The MM become more important against such big AV lists and that is when you have to compare DSing the Speeders or starting them on the table as your best best. Local terrain determines this.

 

Perhaps the 4th Rune Priest is pushing it too far, as some of the spells are less useful and quite army specific. I think 3 is good, but give 4 a go and tell us how it goes.

[nurglez]

I agree about lascannons, while the str9 is nice, you still only penetrate armour 14 vehicles on a 6, and glance them on a 5. a melta weapon at max range will glance on a 6 and still have a 1 in 6 chance of destroying armour 14 vehicles.

 

I used to take 5 man squads with a lascannon and tank hunters in the older chaos codex, due to fighting imperials often, and even then 1 str 10 shot wouldn't often take out a leman russ. recently running 2 melta on my plague marines helps pop them so much easier, sure you have less range but marines excell at close to mid range against most enemies.

 

the reason missile long fangs are so good, is that they can still glance 14, and often glancing it will do enough to help you out.

 

that ork list does seem rather nasty, loads of vehicles, loads of cover saves, best way would seem to take out the big meks, though I'm sure they are well protected/hidden, missile long fang spam seems good vs any army (15 frag or krak a turn will mess up most lists i would hope).