CKO Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Is it possible for a DIY Chapter to be like the Ultramarines and have control over local systems? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaWolf Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 they could have the same gene-seed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2604999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Yes. The C:SM mentions it happening, and the DA and Space Wolves both control planets/systems outside their own (they've gone to war over one). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Yay Octavulg the one that knows more than most, how close to the eye of terror can i have one of these systems? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Sorry Double Post! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Close enough? OR However close you can justify it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothete Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 There's the minor concern of explaining how and why your Chapter came to be in stewardship of those worlds, the reasoning for allowing them to rule them in the stead of a more usual arrangement like an Imperial Governor, how it benefits either the Imperium or your Chapter to have the genetically-engineerd uberwarriors wasting time on politics and logistics instead of waging wars, the reason that even doing it contributes to your Chapter meaningfully besides doing a "me too" on the Dark Angels and Ultramarines, the reason we haven't heard of the arrangement before when the known examples are pretty well public knowledge, the reason that they haven't become a major target for either xenos or Chaos since they're not going to be as powerful or well-equipped as a Second or First Founding Chapter, how they manage to maintain security in the face of the separation of powers preventing them from possessing Naval or conventional military assets, what happened to the world or worlds' previous governing bodies, how the Chapter's culture meshes with those under their rule or whether it's a complete contrast, what arrangements - if any - exist with the Departmento Munitorum, Adeptus Terra, or Adeptus Mechanicus for the use and development of resources, how those arrangements haven't been exposed before now in the official fluff, whether or not there's any kind of outside scrutiny on the arrangement, what sorts of conflicts might arise from possessing worlds that could be of interest to the other branches of the Imperium, detailing how the Chapter deals with the need to protect their territory while also mounting effective campaigns and fulfilling their primary role, detailing whether the Imperium even knows that they're standing over the worlds and how they're hiding it if it's a secret... That's just off the top of my head. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Delicious, having a list of concerns will be very helpful with my IA, but some of the questions I do not understand. There's the minor concern of explaining how and why your Chapter came to be in stewardship of those worlds, the reasoning for allowing them to rule them in the stead of a more usual arrangement like an Imperial Governor I think I will be able to handle these with some creative thinking. , how it benefits either the Imperium or your Chapter to have the genetically-engineerd uberwarriors wasting time on politics and logistics instead of waging wars, the reason that even doing it contributes to your Chapter meaningfully besides doing a "me too" on the Dark Angels and Ultramarines, I dont understand the "me too" aspect of what you are saying, but I can think of several benefits for the Imperium to let Space Marines control a region. I dont have to make extreme deviations from Imperial rule just minor changes that can differentiate my chapter. the reason we haven't heard of the arrangement before when the known examples are pretty well public knowledge, the reason that they haven't become a major target for either xenos or Chaos since they're not going to be as powerful or well-equipped as a Second or First Founding Chapter Could you elaborate on this some more I am not quite sure what is being asked. Are you saying that controlling several planets is a task that only a second or first founding chapter is capable of doing? how they manage to maintain security in the face of the separation of powers preventing them from possessing Naval or conventional military assets, what happened to the world or worlds' previous governing bodies, how the Chapter's culture meshes with those under their rule or whether it's a complete contrast, what arrangements - if any - exist with the Departmento Munitorum, Adeptus Terra, or Adeptus Mechanicus for the use and development of resources These are good questions that I look forward to trying to answer in my IA. , how those arrangements haven't been exposed before now in the official fluff, whether or not there's any kind of outside scrutiny on the arrangement, what sorts of conflicts might arise from possessing worlds that could be of interest to the other branches of the Imperium, detailing how the Chapter deals with the need to protect their territory while also mounting effective campaigns and fulfilling their primary role, detailing whether the Imperium even knows that they're standing over the worlds and how they're hiding it if it's a secret... There will be no hidden secrets or strange arrangements just a chapter that rules a local system of planets. Thanks for your help please continue to comment, ask questions, or make suggestions all of those things lead to a better IA. Thanks again Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothete Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Well sure, I can expand on the questions somewhat. That was a stream of consciousness post where I just threw out whatever occured to me when I thought about Marines being in charge of a region of space. I dont understand the "me too" aspect of what you are saying, but I can think of several benefits for the Imperium to let Space Marines control a region. I dont have to make extreme deviations from Imperial rule just minor changes that can differentiate my chapter. This is actually one of the simpler ones to explain. An awful lot of people who write what amounts to fanfiction, and that's what we're doing if we're honest about it, have a tendency to insert elements from existing portions of the universe in the hopes that it lends an air of legitimacy to what they've created. This can range from simple namedropping and insertion into important events to outright theft of concepts, characters, or other highly recognizable portions of the original work. My concern in this case is that having Astartes rule over multiple planets instead of a single homeworld starts to tread on some comparatively important toes, since the only proper examples we have of it in the existing fiction are First and Second founding Chapters with enormous amounts of pull, respect, and relative immunity due to their powerbase, their influence, and the fact that they're just so old that it's almost heresy to question them. A later Chapter is going to have their work cut out for them in explaining why they not only took on the responsibility but how they were allowed to do so. Could you elaborate on this some more I am not quite sure what is being asked. Are you saying that controlling several planets is a task that only a second or first founding chapter is capable of doing? The questions are somewhat intermingled, in that you probably have to answer them all for the resulting material to make much sense. If you come up with a good reason for a Chapter to steward (or grind and tyrranize) a series of worlds, you then have a whole host of other issues to deal with. Where does their defense come from and, if it's not just Chapter Serfs as ground forces, how do the Marines account for having to leave some of their Brothers, ships, vehicles, weapons, supplies, and such behind so that the worlds can be properly shielded from the predations of a hostile galaxy? You can't have ship-to-ship capable craft other than a few escorts because of the separation of powers post-Heresy, which limits your naval options unless you're, say, the Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists, or Ultramarines (all known to possess capital ships). See where I'm going? There will be no hidden secrets or strange arrangements just a chapter that rules a local system of planets. If all of the planets are in one star system, I would find that more plausible than several of them strung across multiple stars. If you absolutely have to follow through with this angle, it would be more believable if you make sure to cluster things together so that the distances and logistics are less of a headache. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The simplest explanations I can think of for them being permitted: -The worlds are tiny and unimportant and they still pay tithes, they just run the government -They're Chapter-founded colonies with minimal populations (as in under a thousand) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 It could also be a matter of being relatively removed from the seat of the Imperium. It would perhaps make more sense for the Astartes to have some power over a system if that system is out in the middle of Galactic Nowhere. Being Nowhere doesn't make you immune to Imperial law, but you have some wiggle room if the worlds are small enough, or the effort to get there is difficult enough or both. Although, if your Chapter is basically the ruler of Middle of Nowhere over a bunch of tiny planets without much to offer, it begs the question of why your Chapter would bother or what the idea adds to the appeal of your Chapter. Are you using it to humanize the Astartes? Or perhaps to dehumanize them as they abuse their power? Is there some deeper concept you're looking to explore? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Maybe a loyalist and extremely pessimistic chapter is forecasting the collapse of the Great Imperium. Whilst not happy about it they believe that history repeats its self, that's why clocks are round. They look back at history and note how the Emperor started the Great Crusade with only the resources of the battle scared Sol system. They are grabbing as much territory as they can, getting dug in, staking their claim and preparing for the worst because when the Long Night comes It's their duty to ensure that humanity endures. That's why the Emperor created Marines. Having a small Empire/Protectorate/Commonwealth to start with is just going to be a big advantage. They are Preparing for the Second Great Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Is it possible for a DIY Chapter to be like the Ultramarines and have control over local systems? Yes. The C:SM mentions it happening, and the DA and Space Wolves both control planets/systems outside their own (they've gone to war over one). Well, technically it's forbidden either by the Codex or the Guilleman's reforms. Observe for yourself: For example, a Space Marine chapter may subjugate a rebel world and be welcomed by the survived populace as saviours and begged to rule over them. Such a situation is not without precedent, for the Ultramarines rule an entire realm, but this is most definitely outside of the mandate of a Space Marine chapter, and so the sin of pride may lead a chapter down the road to ruin. However, the material about Age of Apostasy says: However, some portions of the Imperium remained free of the horrors of Vandire's reign. The Space Marines and Adeptus Mechanicus maintained their own small, semi-independent states within the Imperium; for example, many Marine chapters rule over their own home planet(s), virtually independent from the central government of the Imperium. Vandire's tyranny was not felt in these enclaves. By the same token, these very powerful military forces of the Emperor steered clear of Vandire, allowing him a free hand everywhere else in the Imperium. So there lies possibilities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218454-like-the-ultramarines/#findComment-2605295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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