Flagships, Battlebarges, ect.

[Ironkeep]

The outside of one, that is. I'm going to leave the inside hollow for whoever picks it up from me.

Unpainted, and mostly un-detailed for an individual to personalize it for there own theme or Legion.

The joy for me is in creating. Modify it to store your army, or leave it empty, for a spacehulk style

board to be dropped into it. Whatever suits you.

 

I already created an Emperor Titan. Did a Warlord and the Imperial Palace wall too. Link should

be in my sig or here http://www.flickr.com/photos/50191001@N07/

Having done those its got me leaning towards the Vengeful Spirit. Threads have already been

done on it. But there was still no clear answers given as to what it was. Battlebarge is a generic

term for 30k. But there were BB's in 30k too. Fulgrims "The Agony and the Extasy" for an example.

 

Long story short. In your mind- What is the Vengeful spirit? Is it just an over done 30k cruiser like the

art depicts? And its portrayal in HH:Nemesis? But i can't imagine the Warmaster flying in something

so small. Is it an extended monster 40k style Battlebarge? Is it an Emperor Class Battleship with

some extra glitz? Or was it the Heavy Capital Battleship Imperium Class? For which I can't find any

history on this ship at all. (Not a BFG player.)

 

Bonus Questions:

In a better description what was the Pride of the Emperor? What ship type?

What is the Iron Warrior Flagship? Name? Pattern?

What are Iron Warrior Ship names? Cruisers? Any mentioned so far aside from the BB Stonebreaker?

[obs0l3te]

Wait wait wait... am I reading this correctly and you make those giant beasts and sell them?

[Ironkeep]

Answered in the Hall of Honor? section. :tu: (Completed projects)

I made a post.

 

140+ Views and Nobody can say? When you read in HH:Flight When the

V.Spirit went in for the Kill-shot on istvan(sp), what did you imagine it being? What's a

Model that can be made and put down on the table and people would go "yeah,

That makes sense." Is it a cruiser? a cap?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I've been reading books by Neil Asher recently, so asking me what I imagine it to be is risky business :tu:

 

Seriously though; the Eternal Crusader, flagship battlebarge of the Black Templars, is stated as the largest ship of it's kind, in particular as it acts also as the fortress monastary.

 

I would say that should the Vengeful Spirit be around now, it would be considered in the same light - can you really imagine Horus having a small ship even during the Great Crusade?

 

So basically larger than a "standard" battlebarge - longer, bulkier maybe - where you'd take two BFG battle barges and take slices from one to bulk up the other.. If you get what I mean?

[Brother Styphus]

For looks, you might want to go with the Desolator Class chaos ship from BFG. The chaos fleet in that game is meant to look like relic ships that have been chaosified.

 

When it comes to weapons loadout, it would probably be more like the Emperor class Imperial ship. Massive weapons batteries on the broadsides, plenty of docking bays to accommodate the 4 different legions who arrived at the same time in Galaxy in Flames, massive lance turrets on the front and top, and finally some aft torpedo tubes for your requried virus bombing.

 

For size, try to remember that the current SM battle barge holds 3,000 battle marines, support and command marines, vehicles, and of course the crew. Back during the heresy, battle companies didn't have a Codex to set the 1,000 marine limits. Vengeful Spirit held the 63rd expeditionary forces of marines, army, crew, and those hippie news reporters. The Imperial Army alone was big enough to secure the planet after the marines do the initial confrontation, and then had enough forces to leave behind a planetary guard and government. As for the marines, they get a new paragraph.

 

The 40k game we play is a joke compared to the pre-heresy battles. The current fluff makes it seem impressive when an entire company of Space Marines are on a single planet. Back in the day there was no room for advanced tactics *cough* outside of the Dark Angels *cough*, so the common battle plan was to shove hundreds of marines into a stormbird, then send hundreds of stormbirds down to the planet. In the end you have tens of thousands of marines down on one planet fighting the aliens that was too BAMF to leave alive for the current 40k era.

 

To sum up that last paragraph, you need a ship that can carry those 10-50 thousand marines

 

Horus' flagship was made for a Warmaster, and the only ship larger at that time would have been Dorn's Phalanx and probably the Emperors own vessel.

 

 

 

While typing this up I read up on lexi's wiki on the Vengeful Spirit. No set numbers, but it used the words "countless thousands" in describing the number of passengers. It also has a picture on it (GW art from artbook, so I don't want to link it here), but the ships in the background are so nondescript that they shouldn't have been included in the art to begin with.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Horus' flagship was made for a Warmaster, and the only ship larger at that time would have been Dorn's Phalanx and probably the Emperors own vessel.

 

I wouldn't even count the Phalanx, it isn't truly a ship in it's own right in my mind.

 

I think that the Furious Abyss might have come close, but would still have been smaller; I'd suggest reading that novel to get an idea of the size of that ship then uprate it.

[Ju'kosian]

Well it's huge.

If not mistaken it's still in use by Abaddon.

 

It houses at least 4 to 7 entire companies

Abaddons Loken, Torgaddon, Aximand, Sedirae, Targhost, Cruze (sorry for any spelling mistakes in names) are all placed and deployed from the vengefull spirit at least that's how I interpret it from the novels.

Maybe even parts of the Legio Mortis (titans) or at least one (Dies Irae) might be even deployed from the Flagship instead of a standard mechanicus ship.

[Tutteman]

For looks, you might want to go with the Desolator Class chaos ship from BFG. The chaos fleet in that game is meant to look like relic ships that have been chaosified.

 

When it comes to weapons loadout, it would probably be more like the Emperor class Imperial ship. Massive weapons batteries on the broadsides, plenty of docking bays to accommodate the 4 different legions who arrived at the same time in Galaxy in Flames, massive lance turrets on the front and top, and finally some aft torpedo tubes for your requried virus bombing.

 

For size, try to remember that the current SM battle barge holds 3,000 battle marines, support and command marines, vehicles, and of course the crew. Back during the heresy, battle companies didn't have a Codex to set the 1,000 marine limits. Vengeful Spirit held the 63rd expeditionary forces of marines, army, crew, and those hippie news reporters. The Imperial Army alone was big enough to secure the planet after the marines do the initial confrontation, and then had enough forces to leave behind a planetary guard and government. As for the marines, they get a new paragraph.

 

The 40k game we play is a joke compared to the pre-heresy battles. The current fluff makes it seem impressive when an entire company of Space Marines are on a single planet. Back in the day there was no room for advanced tactics *cough* outside of the Dark Angels *cough*, so the common battle plan was to shove hundreds of marines into a stormbird, then send hundreds of stormbirds down to the planet. In the end you have tens of thousands of marines down on one planet fighting the aliens that was too BAMF to leave alive for the current 40k era.

 

To sum up that last paragraph, you need a ship that can carry those 10-50 thousand marines

 

Horus' flagship was made for a Warmaster, and the only ship larger at that time would have been Dorn's Phalanx and probably the Emperors own vessel.

 

 

 

While typing this up I read up on lexi's wiki on the Vengeful Spirit. No set numbers, but it used the words "countless thousands" in describing the number of passengers. It also has a picture on it (GW art from artbook, so I don't want to link it here), but the ships in the background are so nondescript that they shouldn't have been included in the art to begin with.

 

Mostly I agree, but you say "current" Battle Barges carry 3,000 marines etc and then plus crew. Isn't it 3 companies, not 3 chapters worth? But otherwise yes, Vengeful Spirit would be huge, massive really.

[Octavulg]

Yeah...even 40K cruisers are like 6 feet long in 28mm scale. Or is that in 6mm...I can't remember.

[Brother Styphus]

Mostly I agree, but you say "current" Battle Barges carry 3,000 marines etc and then plus crew. Isn't it 3 companies, not 3 chapters worth? But otherwise yes, Vengeful Spirit would be huge, massive really.

 

As thanks for catching me on that. It further shows how pitiful current marines actually are.

[lee265]

Slightly off topic but 3 companies of modern marines is enough to decimate planets it took Lokkens entire 600 man company plus imperial army elements plus mechanicus titans to do that in the heresey. I wouldn't call that pitifull.

 

As for the vengfull spirit I would read the first three books of the heresey series because I seem to remember that there was a very good description in there.

 

Back on topic

Abbadon still uses it unless its been retconned. I seem to remember descriptions of it containing a city of remembrencers. It was some kind of ironclad and an old rare model even then. Also at least of of its hanger bays was big enough to hold the Dies Ire. Which depending on description may be an emperor class titan.

 

At the time ofthe first book the luna wolves still used storm birds instead of thunderhawks.

Also I may be wrong but I seeem to remember reading somewhere that after the Mechanicus pimped it for him it was like 5 mile long, but I might just be sleep deprived.

[Brother Styphus]

Slightly off topic but 3 companies of modern marines is enough to decimate planets it took Lokkens entire 600 man company plus imperial army elements plus mechanicus titans to do that in the heresey. I wouldn't call that pitifull.

 

As I've said previously, back in the day they had to fight the serious enemies. Aliens so crafty and evil their extermination was vital to the great crusade. I'm sure an army of mechanical spiders would put a horde of genestealers to shame.

[lee265]

Because modern marines don't fight necrons or anything really difficult like say hive fleets.

[Brother Styphus]

Because modern marines don't fight necrons or anything really difficult like say hive fleets.

 

Yes, and they fail to beat necrons without a deathwatch team dying horribly to bomb the crap out of the inner tombs. As with nids, they lose almost all of their chapter (If you're a Scythe of the Emperor), unless you are an Ultramarine, in which case your Honor Guard has more awards than any other chapter combined and can beat an entire fleet.

 

 

Hey Original Poster, any thoughts on which shape and size you're going for yet?

[Ironkeep]

I'm attempting to sell my first creation. The Titans along with the wall.

Its so large I have no space left in which to work. I received over 1,500

views in three days and one comment- a compliment, Albeit in a backhanded

manner lol. Then my thread derailed over a fair asking price- into the proper

sentence terminology, because I had to rush and post everywhere to make

sure people knew it was NOT made of Styrofoam, and it will hold up under use.

 

I will post them up on Ebay soon. Hopefully get them sold. Then build a

40k style Battlebarge or two. (Emperors Children - The Agony and the Extasy, without

the barbs and chaos. Just imperial Generic, same as the titans.)

 

The BB will be 4-6 feet. It will split both in half for transport, and along the middle.

I figure the person will Fiberglass resin it, and use it for army storage/display. That,

or have a sheet to place inside it for a spacehulk board like I already posted above.

The BB will be the reference point for the spirit. Who, in turn, will be 2-4-6 feet longer.

Any larger then that, and it would be to big to transport. And after detailing to Fragile.

 

The Spirits type will be either an Emperor Class Battleship with the rear end of a regular

Battlebarge (just larger) [kinda fancy in my head and seems right :wallbash:] or the

Heavy Capital Battleship Imperium Class, because I know the least about it. And I haven't

seen a 40k ship anywhere near as long, or armed. It will break into multiple smaller sections.

 

Big projects like my Emperor aren't so much hard, as they are tedious. Scaling is your

greatest nag. I set mine for 43in. (Mike Basia's. I ended up at 44.) After scaling its

proportions. Does it look stupid? To narrow or to fat, don't even bother doing it then,

because you broke the reason for doing it. You wanted it to look cool. My Emperor

is the thing I am most proud of. Whoever gets it, I want to see it finished :pinch: Last is

take down. She breaks down nice. And I think its reasonable for the size. 2 cases. Castle

+ Legs. And center section. Big cases. But you wanted big appearance. The Spirit will

be no different.

 

If you want to see The Siege there's a link in the first post. If your interested or want me

to post more pics of it, pm. If you want to comment about a fair price, or what you think,

post in the Hall of Honor on my thread. With all the views and no comments its really not

the reaction I'd thought I'd get. I hope you have/had a great day :lol:

 

Long winded. But its like that. :]

[Rider-75]

i think you'd be talking over 6ft in EPIC scale, nevermind 40k scale.

 

reading BFG a standard battleship is around 1 - 1.5km long if i remember right.

 

if you haven't seen it, watch the intro from the UM movie for a sense of scale. the huge stained glass window that dwarfs the marines, is in turn a mere speck compared to the rear engine cluster is sits above......

[Lazarine]

I must admit, as amazing as these ships sound, I kind of agree with Rider-75, as a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that, at 28mm scale, a 1 km battleship would still need to be 14 metres long.

 

Apart from that, though, the models sound interesting, will keep a look out.

[Iron Lord]

i think you'd be talking over 6ft in EPIC scale, nevermind 40k scale.

 

reading BFG a standard battleship is around 1 - 1.5km long if i remember right.

......

 

Bigger. Much, much bigger.

 

The Rogue Trader game is the first to provide official sizes for various BFG ships.

 

A Cobra Destroyer is 1.5 km

A Sword Frigate is 1.6 km

A Lunar Cruiser is 5 km

 

And battleships are significantly bigger than that.

 

In Flight of the Eisenstein, as I recall, the main gun barrels on the Vengeful Spirit are longer than the Death Guard flagship- which is itself significantly bigger than the 2km long frigate Eisenstein.

 

And the Terminus Est, on which the Despoiler class Battleship was modelled, is described as a "battle cruiser" at one point in the same book.

 

So, it's possible that Horus Heresy battle barges and battlecruisers, tend to be bigger than those of the current era.

 

(Useful note- in the Badab war, there are BFG rules for the Fire Hawks fortress monastery Raptorus Rex- and it counts as a 20 hit point battleship, rather than a Defense (space station)- so, we know that there can be some big battleships out there).

[Sons of Horus]

On the Vengeful Spirit

Imagine the biggest badass in the entire galaxy. Now imagine building him a ship.

Quite simply, the Vengeful Spirit was MASSIVE. It definitely dwarfed every other ship in the Great Crusade (except the Phalanx which was more like a planetoid). Since ships back then were far larger than 40k ships of any design i think it's safe to say that the Vengeful Spirit would dwarf any ship in the present as well.

On the design

I don't think you could classify any of the Legion flagships/capital ships since they were built specially for the Legion/Primarch. Each capital ship would have been almost entirely unique.

[Iron Lord]

The Terminus Est is pretty comparable to a modern era Despoiler in size.

 

And the Eisenstein, as a 2km long frigate- is fairly comparable to the 1.6 to 1.8 km frigates of the present era.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say that modern super-battleships like the Raptorus Rex (20 hit points, used as a fortress monastery) are probably the closest analogs to the Vengeful Spirit.

 

Just as the Terminus Est is a (slightly) better Despoiler, so the Vengeful Spirit could probably be done as a better version of the Raptorus Rex.

 

I'm not sure how big the various other Legion command ships were though.

[Walter Payton]

When it comes to weapons loadout, it would probably be more like the Emperor class Imperial ship.

 

Retribution Class, actually:

 

Emperor class: slow and cumbersome, primarily a fighter carrier.

Retribution class: Fast but slow to turn, ship of the line.

Apocalypse class: slow and cumbersome, gun platform for massive lance weaponry and a nova cannon.

[Iron Lord]

The Retribution has no launch bays though.

 

The Oberon is like the Emperor- but with more guns and less launch bays.

Maybe the Vengeful Spirit could be akin to an oversized Oberon class battleship?

 

I don't think the virus bombs were loaded into torpedoes- from what I remember of Flight of the Eisenstein, every ship in the fleet loaded its guns with virus shells, and fired them at the planet, in a carefully laid out pattern to ensure maximum coverage.

 

So the Vengeful Spirit wouldn't need aft torpedoes as far as I know.

[Ironkeep]

Thanks for the reply's! Many interesting ideas.

I'm going to start laying out my first BattleBarge soon.

I'll post pics on my flick.

 

Has anyone else made a BB?

(Not to copy, to see there scale and what they did with it after.)