How to make a DA-style DIY without being to bland? Help!

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

Hi folks of the Liber.

I tried my hands at an IA already (see this link), but I want to start from scratch, since my first attempt did not really work out the way I wanted. However, I have already painted quite a few of my guys, and assembled even more, so there are already quite a few things fixed.

I really like the styles of the Dark Angels and Black Templars (as is also apparent from the description below), but I do not want to use their codex, so while a DA successor might be feasible, it is not necessarily the best solution.

So, let me being with what is already fixed:

- The colour scheme (see appendix below), chapter icon (red templar cross over a khaki/bone-mix) and company marking style (heraldic pattern on the right kneepad):

- I also have them use codex markings for ranks and squads, for example the red helmet for sergeants. Might use the bonewhite instead of white for veterans, not sure on that yet.

- Veterans get tabbards and robes from the BT/DA sprues, normal marines do not, with the exception of maybe one in three sergeants.

- Other symbols used are swords and wings, but they are not used frequently on my models so far.

I do not want a carbon copy of the Dark Angels, and I do not want a Deathwing or Ravenwing equivalent, but I want there to be "circles within circles", too, with the robe and tabbard guys being part of those circles in various degrees. So they need some kind of secret, and it would have to be 1. sinister (all the grimdark feeling and such) and 2. either something that could cause serious trouble for the chapter if discovered by anyone. Here I had already thought of something more along the lines of Raven Guard, but got no further.

Another thing I would like them to have is a fortress-monastery on a jungle planet, possibly the largest fortress-monastery there is in the IoM. This, again, might be connected to the secret they keep.

Now I could really use some help in developing this further, since I have more or less hit a dead end here. The biggest dilemma at the moment seems to be: how do I get them to be monkish-mysterious-sinister like the DA without making them exactly the same with only a slightly different colour scheme?

Appendix: Pictures so you can better imagine the chapter.

Colour scheme:

The first painted guys (robe and tabbard guys will be replaced with normal marines at some point):

The current colour scheme (brighter highlights, otherwise the same):

[Octavulg]

'Tabard' has one 'b', dude.

 

That said:

 

A DA successor solves your secrecy problem, and then you just have to explain that they Crusade vigorously instead of functioning as the DA do.

 

And the answer to making them different is simple - focus on some other aspect of their character. Make them secretive in a different way, or have the way they do things be different. If the DA have a parrot on their head, your Chapter can too - just don't make the parrot the focus.

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

Heh, thanks for the correction. :lol:

 

Now I think you have an idea there; I'd have to develop a different method of hunting the fallen for them, then, and that could work.

 

For example, each company could have the first tactical squad consist of members of the Deathwing/inner circle, so that even when no 1st company assets are available, every company would be able to confront the Fallen immediately when they come upon them (it has always struck me as impractical to always have to wait for the arrival of Deathwing or Ravenwing when some company master happened across a hint of the Fallen - or like in Gav Thorpe's Angels of Darkness, having to induct the available marines into the Deathwing based on presence instead of ability).

 

What do you think?

[Octavulg]

That'd work well, I think.

 

Perhaps the Deathwing and/or Ravenwing were mostly wiped out, so they distributed the remainder among the companies. Kinda like the Iron Hands with Terminators. They also got kinda zealous in the wake of that defeat, and next thing you know they're crusading.

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

So the chapter would actually have several more or less fixed strike forces who crusade around the galaxy and only come back to their homeworld for recruits and refitting - maybe once every few years.

 

I could actually have different schemes for bikes and terminators - that is interesting.

 

But what just occured to me: do later foundings with DA geneseed actually know of their secret? I think I remember reading somewhere that only on one occasion was a new chapter founded that belongs to the 'legion of sin'. In that case, it could be difficult justifying this.

[Heru]

But what just occured to me: do later foundings with DA geneseed actually know of their secret? I think I remember reading somewhere that only on one occasion was a new chapter founded that belongs to the 'legion of sin'. In that case, it could be difficult justifying this.

According to Codex: Dark Angels, all Dark Angels successors are now members of the Unforgiven, meaning they all have at least an inner circle that knows the secret.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

But what just occured to me: do later foundings with DA geneseed actually know of their secret? I think I remember reading somewhere that only on one occasion was a new chapter founded that belongs to the 'legion of sin'. In that case, it could be difficult justifying this.

According to Codex: Dark Angels, all Dark Angels successors are now members of the Unforgiven, meaning they all have at least an inner circle that knows the secret.

 

True; some - at least one whose name escapes me - actively do not persue the Fallen for whatever reason.

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

I read that, too, but I think that is referencing all those founded in the second founding. It is mentioned some may not be known. But if my chapter were founded from DA geneseed at a later date, who would tell them about the whole unforgiven affair? Would they be trained by a DA (or successor) cadre, thus learning firsthand about it?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I read that, too, but I think that is referencing all those founded in the second founding. It is mentioned some may not be known. But if my chapter were founded from DA geneseed at a later date, who would tell them about the whole unforgiven affair? Would they be trained by a DA (or successor) cadre, thus learning firsthand about it?

 

Basically the whole idea - accepted by the Dark Angels and almost all their Successors - is that if you come from their heritage then you are just as culpable as they are.

 

So - as proven by ImpArm 9 - genetic heritage is traced from a Primarch/Legion and then a Chapter i.e. Guilliman (Ultramarines), Doom Eagles..

 

And because of their connection via El'Johnson, yes their command personel would almost certainly be inducted - whether they chose to persue the Fallen though is another tale entirely.

[Octavulg]

Would they be trained by a DA (or successor) cadre, thus learning firsthand about it?

 

That's the usual assumption, yes.

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

I see. I think that is a good start then. So we have a DA successor from whatever founding, that lost large parts of its original ravenwing and deathwing in some massive battle (maybe against fallen/chaos), and that started crusading as penitence for that major defeat, spreading the remaining deathwing and circle members among the companies so each would have a detachment to hunt the fallen.

 

That nicely combines the DA monkish bit with the crusading templar element, too. You guys are awesome!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

...spreading the remaining deathwing and circle members among the companies so each would have a detachment to hunt the fallen.

 

I'd leave that so that still only those inducted by the Inner Circle know that they hunt and what it is; it's too far fetched to imagine the entire Chapter knows, because even the Dark Angels don't do that.

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

@Juan: That was what I meant. Each detachment leader - which would be the masters or in rare cases librarians or chaplains - will be a member of the inner circle and have some 10 to maybe 30 Deathwing/Ravenwing among his strike force. The rest of the marines would be "(camo) greenwing," just like in a normal unforgiven chapter. Inducting new members would usually only be done at the fortress-monastery, just like scouts being elevated to marine status.

 

Right, I have quite a lot of codex reading to do before I can go on, I need to brush up my DA knowledge. At the moment I am not even sure what the ravenwing marines actually know, for example.

[NightrawenII]

I had this idea for my Chapter, but I abandoned it, so feel free to use it...

 

The idea is that one of Unforgiven believe that the DA's pursuit of only FDAs is just selfish and narrow-minded. In their point of view, ALL renegade-marines have the right for salvation/punishment. Therefore the Chapter vigorously hunt any and every Chaos-marine in oder to capture him and make him repent*, thus saving his soul. This will also somewhat explain, why they are crusading all over the Imperium.

 

*In usual Unforgiven way. :tu:

[Comabat Apothecary]

I like what your doing here, again, very similar to how I've envisioned my marines, although instead of making more of crusading and hunting the fallen as a side line, my chapter are essentially now codex marines after the inner circle stopped inducting anyone else, and over the years the secret has died out, leaving me with DA colours, heraldry and markings but the freedom to play and arm them as per C:SM. I played with the idea of all my squad Sgts being painted bone too, to make them really stand out but after doing one I'm not sure if I'm sold on the idea.

 

What do you think?

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

I certainly think that possible, too. I will play mine via C:SM, too, though, because as their Death- and Ravenwing are completely different, C:DA won't do.