strongbow Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 READ FIRST! This is the expansion of something I've already posted. To avoid threadromancy and neatness I've started again here. The original thread is here. There are probably many things wrong with this but the bits I'm most unhappy about is the beliefs and geneseed section at the moment. Thanks for reading! :confused: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [img; background-image:url(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/hq2.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: 8px 2px; padding: 12px 8px 12px 8px; border: 1px solid #DDD; margin-left: 0 auto; text-align: left; color: #fff; text-indent:50px; font-size:130%; width:50%;">http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/1294100860/gallery_20677_1567_59884.jpg[/img] Knight of the House of Chatillon The Knights of the Phoenix go to battle in armour of silver, with the colours of their House adorning their right shoulder pad. The Aquila on a Knight’s armour is painted purple in honour of their nobility, the phoenix and chapter. Each House’s colours are those of the original heroic knight from whom the House is named. The chapter’s symbol is the Aquila on each space marine’s armour; the left shoulder pad is reserved for the symbol of the House that a Knight belongs to. Whilst each House does have its own unique ornate heraldry for purposes of ease and practicality the symbol (in the form of a beast) of each House is displayed. Beliefs The Knights of the Phoenix revere the Emperor as the greatest man that ever lived, as well as being their primarch. Knights are indoctrinated to only tell this story if asked by those researching the chapter. Off-hand comments are met with severe punishment by the chaplains as the fact that the knowledge that the Emperor founded them and their success on the battlefield should be enough to settle their need for glory. If they are asked in an unofficial capacity, Knights will simply say nothing or that they were founded ‘by the will of the Emperor’. Arguably every chapter could claim that in a metaphorical nature, and is a suitable way of saying to an outside that they are unaware of their origins. It takes a great of self-restraint for the proud Knights to refrain from talking of their beliefs and inevitably on occassion an over-zealous warrior will speak of his Chapter’s holy origins. This has led to investigations and accusations of an unwanted nature. However, all efforts to pin down an alternative, more likely story of the chapter’s origins have been fruitless. In addition to this, the undeniable purity of the chapter’s geneseed and its proven devotion and commitment on battlefields throughout the Imperium have made it even more difficult for those wanting answers to find support. The fierce pride the Knights display, even for a Space Marine chapter, is very much due to their aristocratic upbringings. They believe (although they would argue they know) that they are the best. This pride, firmly on the arrogant side of confidence naturally creates discord amongst Houses, squads, and individuals. The role of the Chaplains is to ensure that these arguments are mediated successfully, with honour duels frequently being carried out between warriors to ensure that honour and justice are served. These duels can range from unarmed combat with aim to force submission through to fully armed fights to the death. The arrogant tendencies amongst both new recruits of the chapter have a potential problem in that those of significantly higher birth rank can carry their self-importance to the chapter, leading to disrespect toward those of higher rank within the chapter but lower birth rank and infighting between recruits. This potential discipline problem is dealt with before it can take root. New recruits are forcefully put into place from day one of training. They are taught that all rank and prestige of their previous lives is meaningless in the eyes of their House. They must prove themselves as Knights, and no amount of wealth or land owned as citizens would ever mean anything to their superiors or squadmates. The level playing field is created to ensure that the internal squabbles and intrigue found within each empire do not exist in the House. The Chapter’s pride has considerable impact on its external dealings. They are not quick to submit to outside leadership and would never consider following the leadership of anyone who is not a space marine, or a space marine from a younger chapter, which of course in the eyes of the Knights, is nearly every chapter. The Knights are fiercely independent on deployment and are implacable in their desire to destroy the enemy at the expense of virtually everything else. The Chapter has run into serious problems when dealing with old chapters. Whilst a Captain would cede to a leader from a first founding chapter if presented with no other choice, younger chapters do not have that same degree of cooperation. The House of Ibelin has only recently returned from a penance campaign after coming to blows with the Novamarines during the Imheld campaign in early M41. The guiding hand of the Master of Sanctity and Chaplains ensures that the arrogance often shown by the Knights is kept in check where it needs to be. Despite being a serious deviant from the Codex Astartes, the Knights of the Phoenix still hold it in high regard, respecting the knowledge and information passed down from the earliest days of the Space Marines, seeing it as a set of invaluable guidelines. However, it is held in equal regard to the Texte du Phénix, the book dating from the earliest days of the chapter and which dictates the current doctrine and which has also been built up over the millennia by the Masters of Sanctity of the past. The witch hunts on Xerusalen which has led to the purge of virtually all psychics on the planet has also had an impact on the chapter, manifesting in a desire for purity which is extreme even for a space marine chapter. The Knights have been known to devastate entire worlds after dealing with a relatively small chaos presence and contrary to other chapters have never engaged in temporary alliances with aliens. Geneseed The Chapter’s desire for purity has ensured that the geneseed produced is of the highest quality, and shows no real flaws. The Knights of the Phoenix are always keen to show this by meeting every tithe for geneseed required. Battlecry Force Leader: “Ride for glory!” Knights: “Ride!” Force Leader: “Ride for honour!” Knights: “Ride!” Force Leader: “Ride for the Emperor!” Knights: “Ride!” ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 GW themselves rarely mentions the Emperor, for you to come out and say he did this or that made me stop reading! I hope you do not take it the wrong way but you are treading on sacred ground with no regard for the standard set by so many of our writers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Almost did the same, for that reason, and because I thought it was building to them beig a loyalist 'fragment' of the Emperors Children, but the twist that the belief is actually a lie to cover up a crime isn't bad. But wouldn't such beliefs draw them quickly into open conflict with the Ecclessiarchy in particular - as well as causing fights with everyone else as well? Wouldn't the truth become apparent from their geneseed tithe? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 After reading the IA your chapter is very unique and different, and it is an excellent read. Do they tell people that they were once a Legion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongbow Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Almost did the same, for that reason, and because I thought it was building to them beig a loyalist 'fragment' of the Emperors Children, but the twist that the belief is actually a lie to cover up a crime isn't bad. But wouldn't such beliefs draw them quickly into open conflict with the Ecclessiarchy in particular - as well as causing fights with everyone else as well? Wouldn't the truth become apparent from their geneseed tithe? Cheers for the comment! :) I always had in mind the idea that their fanatical loyalty to the emperor would make them look pretty good to the Ecclesiarchy. If I remember correctly most chapters see the emperor as a great man rather than god and this is tolerated by the Ecclesiarchy. So in my mind their relationship with the Eccesiarchy should remain fairly standard for a chapter, if not better. The thing is when a chapter turns up to a warzone it doesn't declare it's full heritage and provide proof. It turns up and does the job. Whilst keeping quiet about something like the idea that the Emperor is their primarch clashes with the personality of the chapter, if they don't mention it it can't be challenged. To them it could be so obvious/simple that they feel there's no need to mention it. A creed of silence on the topic when dealing with others could have been included in the original Master of Sanctity's text. Claiming that they were founded by the emperor can also be taken metaphorically - there's no reason why any chapter couldn't have been founded due to the emperor's will. It is very much possible in my view for any chapter to say that they were founded by the emperor without it being wrong *technically* in the eyes of a believer. I will re-word it at some point to get rid of the bit about them having arguments with other chapters - I think what I've said here is plausible enough to get away with. What do you (and anyone else for that matter) think? As for the geneseed this is an area that confuses me. Can they tell who it belongs to when they test it? Would they even bother to contact the chapter to say they've passed or does the tithe just get sent and if no one comes-a-knocking then they assume they've passed? To what extent would the Adeptus Mechanicus tell others about Astartes geneseed? Something like that strikes me as being top secret information. Again if you or anyone else can answer that it would be very helpful. :) After reading the IA your chapter is very unique and different, and it is an excellent read. Do they tell people that they were once a Legion? Thanks a lot! :) No, I decided to get rid of the Legion part as it was just far too implausible that they could have got away with it for so long. If chapters like the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists and other first founding legions can't remember or don't speak of the lost legions then I can't justify having a chapter say it's a descendent of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongbow Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Sorry for the double post, but need some editing help. I've found a reference to 'legion' that I don't want, but when I edit the post all I can edit it seems is the appearance and beliefs section. Any idea why the rest is hidden? I'll keep trying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 By the way, I should have pointed out that I'm impressed by the time you've obviously spent on this and the idea of something quite different - any suggestions have that as an unspoken qualifier! :) You're quite right of course - so long as they don't go around saying "THE EMPEROR IS OUR PRIMARCH, SO WE'RE BETTER THAN YOU, DO WHAT WE SAY!!", then often those they have casual or passing dealings would be unlikely to find out, or pry to be honest, about their beliefs. My comment about the Ecclesiarchy was not based on them not liking the Emperor enough, but feeling threatened by the Chapter's claim to a direct inheritance from the Emp. They've carved a nice niche for themselves as his priests and interpreters of His will. Someone claiming to have a more intimate relationship with their God, unavoidably threatens that niche. I reckon once they learn of it, they'd respond they same way any hulking bully of an institution would when threatened. It's kind of like how the Catholic church responded in the middle ages to people who have claimed to be new prophets - if agreeable to the current leadership, or even better already 'martyred' they made them Saints, otherwise they were declared heretics, ex communicated and probably killed. Not to say that it should veto your idea, but the animosity would lead to some major consequences. On the flipside, if your Marines honestly believe they are directly descended from the Emperor, wouldn't that make them prone to considering themselves as being entitled to direct others of his servants. Would be remarkable if they never resorted anywhere to saying "well my Daddy is your Daddy's boss, so you have to do what I say" or similar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongbow Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Cheers :cuss I agree with what you're saying and I'm struggling to come up with something that isn't a trump card. As you have read the original Master of Sanctity wrote a book after the Sundering. He would be aware of future problems and future Masters could add their own things to the book. All I have to say is that this is dealt with in the Text, meaning that the chapter keeps things quiet to outsiders. This seems to easy. To what extent does it clash massively with the Ecclesiarchy? A part of me is thinking that all good citizens of the imperium would believe that they are in some way descended from the emperor. Do you see what I mean? I don't know a great deal about this stuff so I could be wrong. The chapter isn't trying to challenge the Ecclesiarchy's authority here, it has its own beliefs and doesn't try to force them on others or use it for their own gain. They aren't preaching in the streets or anything. Does this help alleviate the problem at all? Yeah I see what you mean about trying to force others. i've already said they remain fiercely independent unless commanded by older chapters, and even then are reluctant. However this could easily lead to problems with second founding chapters and others that have been around pretty much since the start. You probably know the Knights of the Raven from the codex? Forced to go on a penancy task for arguing with the Aurora Chapter. Would working in something similar with one of the Houses show that clashes do happen and that the Chapter is subject to the rules? Basically what I am saying is that the Chapter can have issues and still remain a loyal chapter. That sound good? If it meets with approval I'll work it in so that it doesn't look like these guys are completely trouble-free. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Origins To all but the proud warriors of the Knights of the Purple Eagle, how the chapter came into existence is practically unknown. Imperial researchers are told the same story about the chapter’s origins at every turn when dealing with the chapter itself. Every warrior of The Knights of the Purple Eagle believes that the chapter was founded by the Emperor himself, with the Champion of Mankind being their primarch. The Emperor was said to be so impressed by the skill at arms of the knights of their home world Xerusalen that he decided that it was there that he would found a chapter to bring light to the stars in His name. - I sense great disturbance in the Force Warp. :) As the last knight drew his last breath a magnificent purple eagle flew over the site of the battlefield. - You know, I can't picture purple eagle... No, I can't... :mellow: In addition to this, many of them resented having to fight according to the Codex Astartes, hating to have to fight on foot and alongside men of different empires. - Poor Codex, even wannabe marines, who don't know any better, hate it. Despite the harsh training and surgeries, this resentment did nothing but grow within the hearts of the noble-born space marines. They petitioned the Storm Lords training cadre for the practice of recruiting peasant-born space marines but were denied. A plot was hatched among the aristocratic recruits who then proceeded to change this policy through whatever means necessary. Warriors of the six empires united to face a common threat. A combination of duels fought with those in the cadre, and training ‘accidents’ wiped out the training cadre, leaving a power vacuum in which the original architects of the plot created a new chapter structure. - You know, the Space Marines has techniques at their disposal to prevent exactly what you are describing here. Knowing that this could result in the chapter’s self destruction, the Master of Sanctity ended the clashes, presenting his ideas for the complete overhaul of the chapter in the form of the “Texte D’aigles de L’empereur” (Text of the Emperor’s Eagles), which is what the Knights of the Purple Eagle follow today. - How? New armour designs, origins story and name were all presented within the Master of Sanctity’s text and kept. It also included a vow of silence for all those still alive who knew of what had happened. - Lol, doesn't work. You know what will happen if someone begins to investigate the disappearance of Crimson Eagles? [And rest assured that it will be sooner than later.] Yeah, he will come to the Xerusalem. How do you explain that you are absolutely different Chapter? Homeworld No one empire or alliance has the power to break or significantly damage the others, leaving a status quo which ensures that there are large numbers of skilled and experienced warriors from which the Knights of the Purple Eagle can draw recruits. - Astartes recruit boys around 12 years old. Just saying. There is a distinct refusal to refuse to even consider potential aspirants from the peasant classes, except for where doctrine commands or in incredibly exceptional circumstances. - Refusal to refuse? :P Each House is involved to a small extent with its respective empire on Xerusalen. - Confusing. We still don't know what is House. Organisation They are treated with little respect and are nearly as expendable as chapter serfs or servitors in the eyes of the Knights but keep the expected loyalty to their superiors whom they would have had in civilian life. These infantry scouts provide essential intelligence gathering missions that commanders need in order to operate in battle efficiently. - One must wonder why they are not planning some kind of coup d'état. It wouldn't be very surprising. :cuss +++++ To be honest, you should read this thread. That's the best advice I could give you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongbow Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 OriginsTo all but the proud warriors of the Knights of the Purple Eagle, how the chapter came into existence is practically unknown. Imperial researchers are told the same story about the chapter’s origins at every turn when dealing with the chapter itself. Every warrior of The Knights of the Purple Eagle believes that the chapter was founded by the Emperor himself, with the Champion of Mankind being their primarch. The Emperor was said to be so impressed by the skill at arms of the knights of their home world Xerusalen that he decided that it was there that he would found a chapter to bring light to the stars in His name. - I sense great disturbance in the Force Warp. <_< Rather vague. Is there a problem with the language? Too fanboyish? I appreciate you reading this and taking the time to comment but I can't really do much with this. Do you just not like the premise? As the last knight drew his last breath a magnificent purple eagle flew over the site of the battlefield. - You know, I can't picture purple eagle... No, I can't... :mellow: The idea is that the creature is mythical - an omen of sorts. it is definitely not supposed to be commonplace - I'll make sure I emphasise that, maybe tie it in to the homeworld in particular. In addition to this, many of them resented having to fight according to the Codex Astartes, hating to have to fight on foot and alongside men of different empires. - Poor Codex, even wannabe marines, who don't know any better, hate it. They aren't hating the codex. the recruits have been taught from birth that the way to make war is to ride - commoners fight on foot. They also resent being forced to fight alongside men they instinctively hate. They hated what they were forced to do, which wasn't that unreasonable - but these aren't reasonable people. Despite the harsh training and surgeries, this resentment did nothing but grow within the hearts of the noble-born space marines. They petitioned the Storm Lords training cadre for the practice of recruiting peasant-born space marines but were denied. A plot was hatched among the aristocratic recruits who then proceeded to change this policy through whatever means necessary. Warriors of the six empires united to face a common threat. A combination of duels fought with those in the cadre, and training ‘accidents’ wiped out the training cadre, leaving a power vacuum in which the original architects of the plot created a new chapter structure. - You know, the Space Marines has techniques at their disposal to prevent exactly what you are describing here. No I don't, what exactly are they? Knowing that this could result in the chapter’s self destruction, the Master of Sanctity ended the clashes, presenting his ideas for the complete overhaul of the chapter in the form of the “Texte D’aigles de L’empereur” (Text of the Emperor’s Eagles), which is what the Knights of the Purple Eagle follow today. - How? A gap in the story to be sure - will deal with that soon asap too. New armour designs, origins story and name were all presented within the Master of Sanctity’s text and kept. It also included a vow of silence for all those still alive who knew of what had happened. - Lol, doesn't work. You know what will happen if someone begins to investigate the disappearance of Crimson Eagles? [And rest assured that it will be sooner than later.] Yeah, he will come to the Xerusalem. How do you explain that you are absolutely different Chapter? At what point does a chapter actually be involved enough outside of its original training parameters for it be noticed as 'missing'? To what extent do parent chapters keep contact with their successors? These are questions to which I do not know the answer. What I'm getting at is, if the sundering happened early enough, how many people exactly would be aware, or care enough, that the Crimson Eagles ever existed? Homeworld No one empire or alliance has the power to break or significantly damage the others, leaving a status quo which ensures that there are large numbers of skilled and experienced warriors from which the Knights of the Purple Eagle can draw recruits. - Astartes recruit boys around 12 years old. Just saying. Yeah this did occur to me, certainly doesn't work given that their recruits are potential knights (i.e. years of training). I'll put in that noble sons are basically trained from birth to become knights (crucially here, not Knights), meaning that they can compete for the honour once they have reached a certain age. There is a distinct refusal to refuse to even consider potential aspirants from the peasant classes, except for where doctrine commands or in incredibly exceptional circumstances. - Refusal to refuse? :P haha bad typo, I'll iron that out with the other easier bits to deal with :D. Just a bit embarassing there! Each House is involved to a small extent with its respective empire on Xerusalen. - Confusing. We still don't know what is House. Ah yeah I see what you mean - witness the problems of going back through and forgetting what order the sections are in! Should be easy enough to sort out. Organisation They are treated with little respect and are nearly as expendable as chapter serfs or servitors in the eyes of the Knights but keep the expected loyalty to their superiors whom they would have had in civilian life. These infantry scouts provide essential intelligence gathering missions that commanders need in order to operate in battle efficiently. - One must wonder why they are not planning some kind of coup d'état. It wouldn't be very surprising. :D Never though of that (obviously :P). I need to re-word stuff and put in something to avoid that, or at least reduce the threat of it. Something like that happening could be a cool twist to add some character to one of the Houses. +++++ To be honest, you should read this thread. That's the best advice I could give you. Thanks a lot for reading, I'll be dealing with some of the smaller things soon. Any help regarding the things I don't know about (sure you've already seen those in my responses) would be greatly appreciated. Cheers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 My responses to the first section, in Emoticon form: To all but the proud warriors of the Knights of the Purple Eagle, how the chapter came into existence is practically unknown. Imperial researchers are told the same story about the chapter’s origins at every turn when dealing with the chapter itself. Every warrior of The Knights of the Purple Eagle believes that the chapter was founded by the Emperor himself, with the Champion of Mankind being their primarch. The Emperor was said to be so impressed by the skill at arms of the knights of their home world Xerusalen that he decided that it was there that he would found a chapter to bring light to the stars in His name. :eek :pinch: :) The idea of this being true is utterly preposterous, yet researchers find that the Knights of the Purple Eagle’s conviction in this story completely immovable, to the point of being accused of heresy by other space marines of angrier temperament. The chapter is clearly many thousands of years old, and through accounts of war from throughout the Imperium’s existence declaring the chapter’s presence, the Knights could not have been founded any earlier than the fourteenth founding. The refusal of the higher echelons of the chapter’s command structure to tell any more than what is already known in quite some detail to imperial scholars is seen as quite telling to those who are particularly intrigued by the story of the Knights of the Purple Eagle. :huh: :unsure: :D It's not bad, this. Not bad at all. The problems I can forsee is that hating to fight on foot is one of the things that would probably be overwritten by the psycho-conditioning that recruits go through. And it's not so much that other chapters might come looking for the Crimson Eagles, so much as it is the Inquisition might send a few folks by for a quick chat. ;) As far as the geneseed questions: As for the geneseed this is an area that confuses me. Can they tell who it belongs to when they test it? Would they even bother to contact the chapter to say they've passed or does the tithe just get sent and if no one comes-a-knocking then they assume they've passed? To what extent would the Adeptus Mechanicus tell others about Astartes geneseed? Something like that strikes me as being top secret information. Again if you or anyone else can answer that it would be very helpful. My understanding is that the AdMech would be able to compare it to samples of, say, UM geneseed, or IF geneseed and see which, if any, your chatper's geneseed resembles. They might get a bit inquisitive if what you claim your geneseed is doesn't match up with the facts. Although I doubt they'd notify eanyone else unless your chapter declaims a false lineage at length in the face of the evidence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Keep in mind, there are a variety of official GW Chapters whose geneseed is unknown, and the 13th Founding would seem to allow geneseed that's completely unknown. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothete Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Keep in mind, there are a variety of official GW Chapters whose geneseed is unknown, and the 13th Founding would seem to allow geneseed that's completely unknown. True, but they also could test against existing samples from the original genelines and any decendants to determine where the Chapter originated. The Thirteenth gives an out if there's some source that can't be compared becasue it doesn't exist, but I would imagine that the geneseed isn't an all or nothing proposition. The differentiation of each Legion likely stands out to some degree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Yes, but they either don't or won't necessarily share the results. Witness the Blood Ravens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothete Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Witness the Blood Ravens. Do I have to? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Yes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I tried to read this, but I couldn't get out of the first paragraph... the name is just horrible, everytime I had to read it I felt like I was sinking further and further into a deep pit... it's just sooo long, and has purple in it (I like the colour, just the word doesn't fit in a Chapter name). Having looked at your old thread, I don't understand why you went from Eagle Knights (which is sooooooooooooo much better) to "Knights of the Purple Eagle". Then there is the colour scheme, which is just eww. My advice drop the house colours from the trim and knee pads, instead place them quartered on one of the shoulder pad inserts, and have the house symbol sit on top of that. Like this Howling Griffons Apothecary's Chapter symbol. In addition don't go with black eye lenses or a gold face grill. Also optionally drop the gold belt. You end up with something like this: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2606900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 The idea is that the creature is mythical - an omen of sorts. it is definitely not supposed to be commonplace - I'll make sure I emphasise that, maybe tie it in to the homeworld in particular. But purple? No Silver nor Gold nor something, but purple? They aren't hating the codex. the recruits have been taught from birth that the way to make war is to ride - commoners fight on foot. They also resent being forced to fight alongside men they instinctively hate. They hated what they were forced to do, which wasn't that unreasonable - but these aren't reasonable people. They will be moulded to love it. No I don't, what exactly are they? It's called psycho-conditioning. It's very fundamental technique that all Chapter use. :lol: At what point does a chapter actually be involved enough outside of its original training parameters for it be noticed as 'missing'? To what extent do parent chapters keep contact with their successors? These are questions to which I do not know the answer. What I'm getting at is, if the sundering happened early enough, how many people exactly would be aware, or care enough, that the Crimson Eagles ever existed? Before it even starts to exist. The new Chapter is created in the laboratories of Admech and then sent for their Homeworld. If the name and heraldy has been decided, then you are already in the notation. If the Homeworld has been given then you are already in the notation. And you cannot escape the Imperial bureaucracy. Missing Chapter is like missing nuclear warhead. The Chapters are obliged to send 5% of their gene-seed to Mars for the purity tests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2607214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongbow Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Ok, I really like the new colour scheme idea. Mind if I take the url and put that in? Tbh I really can't remember why I went with purple, and you're right, it seems stupid and the name is far too long for a chapter name. I don't like the 'Eagle Knights' though. Gold Eagle? Golden Eagle? (already exists, so no) Silver Eagle? I'm not liking those either. Maybe scrap eagle altogether then? Maybe a Phoenix? I like the idea of re-birth with this chapter as well. Also this could solve a problem. The chapter name need not change from the original one decided at the chapter's founding. Any further thoughts on that would be great. Regarding the geneseed thing - if it is possible for it to be 'unknown' could I make the original chapter be from the 13th founding, and just say that it isn't known? I can't keep on coming up with things to try to explain away things if I can avoid it. If there is capacity for it to be unknown in the fluff then I will leave it as that. Claiming the Emperor as being primarch I think is becoming something they could not get away with at all. I'm happy to leave it as their belief that the Emperor founded them because technically the Emperor founded everyone. Maybe they can venerate him as a greater primarch of all Space Marines? Just a thought. As for missing chapter like missing a nuke, the Imperial bureacracy is so huge that surely something must get lost? Many GW chapters with unknown geneseed. That strikes me as a very fundamental part of knowledge about a chapter, and yet it isn't known. Surely as long as the geneseed keeps coming in (and it has the correct quality) then they aren't that fussed and wouldn't investigate much? As regarding to combat doctrine and the codex - I've said that the training cadre came from the Storm Giants. I'm sorry if I'm wrong but they are successors of the White Scars and have a tendency towards mounted warfare (admittedly not dominated by it completely). As a divergent chapter to some degree, wouldn't this be passed on to some degree to the recruits they train? As I've said the recruits they would take that onboard naturally due to their upbringing. Each House as I've said is structured roughly like a codex battle company anyway - would it really be that difficult for them to prefer to be mounted on bikes? They are trained to fight on foot, and so if necessary can fight in that capacity. Regarding the peasant-born scouts element of each of the Houses I'm thinking it might be better to get rid of them entirely. Having them there creates more problems than it solves. Although it means the chapter is always massively under official strength (not that these troops were counted officially as the strength - a problem in itself), this reflects the character of the chapter well due to their more limited recruitment pool. I'll be doing the re-haul fairly soon, the process of making the edits is a pain so I'd rather do a lot in one go. Also it gives more time to people to give their two pence. Cheers guys, appreciate the help etc :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2607807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Ok, I really like the new colour scheme idea. Mind if I take the url and put that in? Sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2607938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Regarding the geneseed thing - if it is possible for it to be 'unknown' could I make the original chapter be from the 13th founding, and just say that it isn't known? I can't keep on coming up with things to try to explain away things if I can avoid it. If there is capacity for it to be unknown in the fluff then I will leave it as that. For the outsider it could work. However the Space Marines are proud of their Genetic heritage. They are not going to forget their Primarch and Primogenitors. It's matter of honour. As for missing chapter like missing a nuke, the Imperial bureacracy is so huge that surely something must get lost? Many GW chapters with unknown geneseed. That strikes me as a very fundamental part of knowledge about a chapter, and yet it isn't known. Surely as long as the geneseed keeps coming in (and it has the correct quality) then they aren't that fussed and wouldn't investigate much? We don't know the source of gene-seed, it's no like the Chapter doesn't know either. And not knowing source of gene-seed is not like being MIA. As regarding to combat doctrine and the codex - I've said that the training cadre came from the Storm Giants. I'm sorry if I'm wrong but they are successors of the White Scars and have a tendency towards mounted warfare (admittedly not dominated by it completely). As a divergent chapter to some degree, wouldn't this be passed on to some degree to the recruits they train? As I've said the recruits they would take that onboard naturally due to their upbringing. Each House as I've said is structured roughly like a codex battle company anyway - would it really be that difficult for them to prefer to be mounted on bikes? They are trained to fight on foot, and so if necessary can fight in that capacity. Yes, but they will not went overboard like you are telling us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2608383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
strongbow Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Ok I've made a few changes, as you can probably see. These mainly deal with the slightly easier problems you guys saw to handle. I've made it so that the chapter didn't have a major overhaul of its name and colours. Minor changes were made to fit the new organisation of the chapter. One thing I am uncertain of is how a chapter's name is picked. I get the impression though that that's something everyone's quite unsure about. I also read that there have been some issues regarding the 13th founding, so I changed the founding to the 12th, just to avoid problems with that. However issues of primarch/geneseed still remain, and I'm not entirely sure yet how to deal with them. Also, I know the earth based phoenix isn't purple but for the sake of the colour scheme the Xerusalen one is. Basically, a rare bird which happened to be a deep purple was seen over the site of the battlefield. I've taken the emphasis away from the colour and made it coincidental instead. Cheers guys! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218521-knights-of-the-purple-eagle/#findComment-2612284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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