Aegnor Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Ah, thanks for the advice. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2638531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 The Librarium's closed for reorganization right now. Nobody submits anything, not nobody, not no-how. But I'm wearing the Sanguine Slippers the Inquisitor gave me! Ahem. I agree with Octavulg, the name is quite boring. Any combination from Octa's list that he posted would be better, and most would avoid the problems you're trying to avoid I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2638695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Would Vigilant Owls be better? The "an-ow" sound doesn't thrill me, but otherwise it conveys what I'm after. Besides the name, are there any other objections to the IA as it stands? I take Plague Angels point about it being very focused on the Alpha Legion angle, but that obsessive, claustrophobic element is a big part of how I see these guys - they think they know what is after them, they think they know how to deal with the issue, but the leaders of the chapter don't realise they've lost the edges a bit in the labyrinth they've found themselves in. Is that reasonable? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2638733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The Owls were founded as part of the 23rd Founding, created from previously tithed gene-seed from the Raptors Chapter, and training by the Raptors. As such, they trace their lineage back to the Raven Guard and venerate Corax as Primarch. The Raven Guard's geneseed has serious stability problems. The Mechanicus has to send shipments to them to maintain their viability. They would seem an unlikely choice for a Chapter founding, especially in recent times. History Usually, an IA presents the history of a chapter (which demonstrates what the Chapter is now like), then uses the various other sections to highlight that character and explain it further. Putting the history down here defeats that. First, the need to guard against further infiltrations has seen the Inner Order assume an ever more central role in the Chapter. The number of chaplains now far exceeds other classifications of senior officers, both the Librarius and Apothecarium have been made subordinate areas within the Inner Order, and it is now standard protocol that any deployment must have at least two Chaplains attached. Furthermore, if the Chaplains dispute the orders of the senior officers, those officers must defer to the Chaplains.The Chapter Master and Captains are still drawn from line officers, but rely heavily on the Chaplains for guidance in all matters. The head of the Inner Order, known as the Master of Purity, is granted privileged access to the Chapter Master at all times, and is whispered by some to be the real master of the Chapter. Except: 1) The Chaplains failed to detect the first infiltration. 2) The most logical people to guard against infilitration are the Librarians, who can read people's minds. Chaplains are zealots - subterfuge and counterspying isn't within their skillset. I could see the Chaplains and Librarians filling the role together. But the Chaplains in this role just doesn't seem quite right. How, exactly, is increased influence from the Chaplains going to make it easier to catch spies? “We’ll never know why they turned, will we Camax?”. The Chapter-Master looked drawn. “We’ll never know why they killed their brothers”.Camax felt awkward without his grinning skull helm on – he disliked exposing his face, even in these quarters. “Sire, we must focus on re-making this Chapter, making it strong, for the fight ahead”. “You’re right, Camax. Of course… you’re right”. The Chapter Master visibly gathered himself, drawing up to his full height, towering over the Chaplain. “This must never be allowed to happen again” Camax looked the Chapter-Master in the eye. “I’ll see to it.” “For the Emperor!” A little longer, I think. Set the scene a little more. * * * Very interesting. But the presentation hurts things - I'd rather see the sneakiness first, then have the other sections mention how the sneakiness has manifested itself. In regard to names: I think you want a one-syllable adjective. Two at a maximum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2642316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringlancer Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Would Vigilant Owls be better? The "an-ow" sound doesn't thrill me, but otherwise it conveys what I'm after. Besides the name, are there any other objections to the IA as it stands? I take Plague Angels point about it being very focused on the Alpha Legion angle, but that obsessive, claustrophobic element is a big part of how I see these guys - they think they know what is after them, they think they know how to deal with the issue, but the leaders of the chapter don't realise they've lost the edges a bit in the labyrinth they've found themselves in. Is that reasonable? I like it. Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2642660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringlancer Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Actually, do you need the word Owls in the name? You can keep the image and use something like Night Raptors...just a thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2642694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Thanks for the responses guys - away at the moment and will have a go at incorporating the feedback when I get home. On another note, I saw Watchmen for the first time last night and obviously became aware that one of the main characters of that is the Night Owl. Hence, I shan't be using that name as it is not the connotation/reference I want. Will continue to think. I do want them to be ravenguard descendents because that's I want to model them - as albinos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2645079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 There would be plenty of ways of letting them be albinos without that. For one thing, maybe they don't get out in the sun much... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2645080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hmmm, I liked the Raptors as the fathers, but have since noted that they seem to get used a lot. Night Raptors sounds good and I like it more if they aren't themselves from the Raptors. Will think about this. There's no reason they couldn't be very pragmatic (in some ways) and alter colours as required while not being Raptor successors. The idea re: Chaplains was that it's their traditional role to monitor and reinforce the zeal and loyalty of their brothers AND that the librarians didn't catch the past infiltrators. The Librarians are considered with deep distrust because their connection to the warp is an avenue for outside, and thus untrustworthy, influence, and because the Inner Order can't be sure, and would find it near impossible to verify, that they don't use their gifts to communicate with the enemy. But they're too practical to throw away such a useful tool, but they insist on keeping them on the shortest of leases and keeping them isolated from everyone else. Will have a further think about this issue. Thanks again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2645124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Ok, made a few changes - a few too many to get into the sub-heading. I've brought the history aspects more up front in an expanded Origins section. On my re-read now, I've fixed up the necessary parts to make that flow, but will have another look tomorrow when I'm fresher. I've made the decision to dump the Raven Guard/Raptor connection - it raised a couple of pretty concrete concerns, and on reflection isn't necessary for the story I want to tell with these guys. Plus, I've noticed recently that there seem to be a LOT of chapters claiming they've been founded from the Raptors, so I will ironically separate myself from the herd by becoming a successor to the Ultramarines. I've picked what must be the fifth name for this chapter previously known as the Venators of Araw, the Vigilant Falcons, the Night Owls or the Vigilant Owls. Decided the "Owl" element is too awkward to get into the chapter name, so decided to come at that from a different angle, while still featuring the Owl heavily in their heraldry etc. Also, if I get to right a Codex, expect to see Owl Claws, Owl-Cannons, Owl-Utility Belts - yeah, I'm going Ward on this badboy. Finally, I've picked up Octavulg's question about why the Chaplains ended up running the counter-intelligence effort, and his suggestion I expand the colour piece at the end, and hopefully killed two (owl-)birds with one stone. As an aside, my apology for the formatting of the sidebars - if anyone can point me to a guide as to how I can alter the alignment within a side bar, alter the width of a sidebar, etc. I'd be grateful. The basic guide I found in the Librarium tells you how to make them, but not whether you can do more clever things to them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2652708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I do want them to be ravenguard descendents because that's I want to model them - as albinos. The Raven Guard aren't albinos. They may end up with white skin, but their eyes and hair go black. A Salamander successor has more chance of going albino in my opinion. = Please read my post here = Note: Yes, I know you decided against the RG geneseed in the posts following the one I quoted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2652744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Yes, true. I misspoke (mis-typed?) when I said albino. I was keen on the jet black hair/eyes, white skin, but I can do a similar coloration without the RG genes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2652751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 New version up - see top post for what's new Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2666396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Did anyone have any comments on the new version? Octavulg - did the rearrangement successfully fix the problems you mentioned? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/218607-the-abyss-hunters/page/2/#findComment-2671121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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