Chaos and Heretics

[Ulfwerener]

Hi there!

I am thinking of starting a side project in order to get some variaton from my Space Wolves, and the thought of a Heretical Guardsman Army led by Chaos Space Marines came to mind.

 

This is obviously not legit since I will have to use two codexes for the same force, however my 40k-mates have agreed to let me field it as two separate forces allied and played by the same player so to speak. I was thinking 50% Black Legion and 50% Imperial Guard (painted in Black Legion colorscheme ofcourse). This means that I have to have the standard 1 HQ and 2 Troop Choices for both, and we usually play around 1000 points. so at least 500p Guardsmen and 500p Chaos Space Marines.

 

Do you guys have any suggestions on what would be a decent and semi competitive army with this theme?

 

Im thinking a Demon Prince for one of the HQs but Im not sure weather or not it is worth the points under these circumstances.

 

Suggestions?

[killersquid]

For a traitor guard army with Chaos Allies, you might be interested in the three Renegade lists from the Siege of Vraks books. All are a Guard army, but with a chaos twist. Book one has an Undivided army, with Alpha Legion allies. Book two is a Khorne Army, with khorne Champion as a possible HQ, beserkers and Beastmen. The Third book is Nurlge, with spawn, zombies and plague marines added to guard units.

 

These all offer a balanced way to play a mixed army. I feel that cherry picking from two separate codex's may be a bit of an unbalanced thing to do in regular gaming, and it's hard to offer any sort of real suggestion on what to do, considering that what ever you take from one force, will water down the strengths of the other.

 

I suggest fast moving assault units for the Chaos Half, and use the guard section for objective claiming and fire support. Bring transport and tank busters, and artillery.

[sonsoftaurus]

Imperial Armour 9 also has a hybrid list, though it's regular marines and guard, though could work.

 

What you're looking for is essentially the old Lost and the Damned army from Codex: Eye of Terror. With a little tweaking to reflect changes in both CSM and IG, it could work pretty well. There's also a number of fan-made versions out there. If your group is good with combining books, they might accept something like that as well.

 

Lots of folks (me included) are doing Chaos Guard with a CSM as a counts-as Straken leading the force. If you want more than one CSM in the army, probably not enough for you though.

 

You could also use regular marines, and have the WS/BS 3 Scouts count as the heretical guard (in carapace armor, and somewhat mutated to represent T4).

[Ulfwerener]

So basically the best way of doing this is by using campaign books and/or bending the rules a bit but with the right models?

 

What about small troop choices in order to field something bigger for CSM? like a tank or Dreadnought? (since IG still has to go by the platoon rules to function properly?)

[the jeske]

wont work because chaos singles suck. 500 pts , sometimes even 1k pts , for chaos is offten not enough to work with . we just dont have enough support units in different slots , you would have to play something like an IG army with just oblits and DP , but I doubt your friends would let you do that for a long time.

[sonsoftaurus]

If your buddies are loyalist players with a mix of marines/IG/etc. available, maybe you could set up a campaign or something and let everyone do the same thing. Good guys get to mix marines and IG, bad guys get to mix CSM and traitor IG. Set up whatever restrictions desired (like split as desired, but only one FOC) and let everyone go to town.

[Lord_Caerolion]

As Sonsoftaurus said, use the Tyrants Legion list in IA:9. It's a hybrid list of Marines and Guard, with the Guard there to act as meatshields and fire support for their masters.

[Ulfwerener]

I have checked out the IA:9 as well as some of the earlier books, and I must say I am intrigued, particulary the lists in IA:6 caught my eye with Ogre Berserkers as well as Khorne Berserkers working with renegade militia troops.

 

However I have gotten the impression that since we are playing WYSIWYG my buddies are more against using rules that are ment for certain models while replacing those models with others.

For example there apparently is this Salamanders Character that makes your army OP and this is used by many SM players in tournaments even when they dont play Salamanders. This is apparently legit according to GW though.

 

Im not sure that playing SM with CSM models will fly with my group, plus also I kind of want the "chaos feel" to my list and be able to include a Daemon Prince or something.

 

I am grateful for all your tips! They seem to point me towards the varios IA Books and Codex: Eye of Terror. Im going to speak with my buddies since they probably are going to have the final say in this anyway :)