why do wolf priests not grant feel no pain

[Thunderhawk3015]

Well there are always other ways to balance a list. The principle remains the same to me though; Wolf Priests should have Narthecium in their wargear!

 

No, Wolf Priests should not.

 

Reasons already listed further up the page by many people.

 

My closing thought is that if your that envious of what the Blood Angels have, then take a look at their dex and figure out how you can fit your list to their dex.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm not a Space Wolf player so there is no envy for me. But I do think the little tid-bits of fluff in the back ground should be included within the game as much as possible without unbalancing it. I don't see why GW couldn't balance Wolf Priests in this case.

 

It's just nice to have a bit of representation of what we enjoy reading about in our game.

[Max_Dammit]

I mis the ignore one failed armour save a turn when not in CC, but the dex is good as is and doesnt need more stuff than it has.

[Baluc]

I mis the ignore one failed armour save a turn when not in CC, but the dex is good as is and doesnt need more stuff than it has.

 

The fang of morkai if I remember correctly is our Narcathium no? Its what makes us fearless.

[Valerian]

Elites choice would be interesting, but it could be prohibitive and strange. Wolf Priests are men with great experience that can even give advice to a Wolf Lord and is recuited streight from the ranks of Long Fangs exclusively (to my knowledge). That makes a Wolf Priest very capable of command beyond the station of medic and Spiritral Leader and commands some serious respect rather then an elite. Elites tend to be reserved for the ultra killy squads and other commendable personal that don't fit in HQ, the Wolf Priest sounds very much a HQ due to their importence.

 

Correct. Allow me to provide a quote, because it is relevant here:

 

Wolf Priests

 

Where other Chapters have both Apothecaries and Chaplains, the Space Wolves have their Wolf Priests. The Wolf Priests are amongst the most revered men of the Chapter and are responsible only to the Great Wolf himself. They are hard, grim men, knowledgeable in the sagas of the Chapter's history. They recruit new brothers, oversee their training and minister to their spiritual needs. Wolf Priests are also wise in the ways of medicine. In battle they use these skills to ease the suffering of wounded comrades. They are responsible for performing the benedicto ultimatus and removing the geneseed of fallen Space Wolves.

 

Wolf Priests are chosen from the ranks of the Long Fangs. Becoming a Priest means severing all ties with their former pack-brothers and Great Company. It is a great loss, and they are mourned as dead by those they leave behind. To symbolise this they take on a new name when they don the sacred skull-embossed armour. This is important, for the Wolf Priests must be seen as impartial for they arbitrate in any dispute among the Companies. A convocation of Wolf Priests advises the Great Wolf on matters of Chapter law and discipline.

 

The Wolf Priests guard the Chapter's genetic seed, bio-culturing new implants and maintaining the vigour of the strain by weeding out any weakness or mutation. Their knowledge is deep, and for many centuries they have studied the effects of the cursed Wulfen gene helix in a search for a way to modify it and make safe the Chapter's genetic seed. However, their efforts have only succeeded in preventing the curse spreading, and it is unlikely that the damage can ever be repaired completely.

 

At least one Wolf Priest always stalks the surface of Fenris seeking promising new candidates to recruit into the ranks of the Space Wolves. Wolf Priests perform the ritual implanting of the geneseed and supervise every aspect of training the aspirants. Wolf Priests are the first Space Marines any new recruit has dealings with, and they sternly supervise their development. During training, Space Wolves gain an almost religious respect for these grim old men that never leaves them. A brawl between drunken Space Wolves can be broken up by a single word from a Wolf Priest. It is said that a Wolf Priest's face is the first and last that Space Wolves ever see. They look on it for the first time when they are recruited and for the final time when the Wolf Priest performs the benedicto ultimatus.

 

I mis the ignore one failed armour save a turn when not in CC, but the dex is good as is and doesnt need more stuff than it has.

 

The fang of morkai if I remember correctly is our Narcathium no? Its what makes us fearless.

 

Actually, the Fang of Morkai is more closely associated with the "Reductor" of a standard Marine Chapter, rather than the Narthecium. The equivilant wargear to the Narthecium within the Space Wolves Chapter was the "Healing Potions and Balms" upgrade option for Wolf Priests from the 3rd Edition Codex.

 

I agree that giving the Wolf Priest blanket FNP (like other Apothecaries and Sanguinary Priests grant), would probably throw our list a little out of balance toward the overpowered side of the scale. However, I hate that the very important "medical" aspect of the Wolf Priest's fluff has been completely disregarded in this version of the codex. Especially as Wolf Priests did not use the same wargear as those other medical figures (no Narthecium, and no Blood Chalice), Phil Kelly could have easily just kept the Healing Potions and Balms, and included a special rule that isn't a USR. A simple "ignore the first unsaved wound" in the unit would have sufficed. This would not have been unbalancing at all, and would have included a rule for the unit that is an appropriate nod to the background material. It is a relatively easy solution, and failing to address it really is a failing in the new codex.

 

Valerian

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Here's what I figure:

 

Apothecaries and Sanguinary Priests are purely focused on field medic stuff. That is their only role on the battlefield. A Wolf Priest is both the cheerleader(my apologies, I couldn't think of a better term) and happy healy guy. Since his role is split, he has much less time to devote to medical aid, as he is often at the forefront of an assault, leading a pack of wolves in the charge and exhorting them to greater feats of might. Because of this, he won't be able to spend the time necessary to provide aid. So were you to give him the Feel No Pain or Ignore one unsaved wound thing, you should make it where the other special rules don't apply. A Wolf encouraging his brethren while bashing heretics left and right is a lot more inspiring than a Wolf Priedt hunched over a wounded marine, providing emergency medical care.

[Captain Idaho]

The problem is, whilst he may be concentrating on being your cheerleader, he has absolutely nothing in his rule set to represent being able to heal.

 

So your Wolf Lord takes an (un)lucky shuriken to the throat and goes down fighting for his life. The Wolf Guard look towards the Wolf Priest to help but he shakes his head and sighs "sorry brothers, I haven't the time."

[dswanick]

Actually, the Fang of Morkai is more closely associated with the "Reductor" of a standard Marine Chapter, rather than the Narthecium. The equivilant wargear to the Narthecium within the Space Wolves Chapter was the "Healing Potions and Balms" upgrade option for Wolf Priests from the 3rd Edition Codex.

 

I agree that giving the Wolf Priest blanket FNP (like other Apothecaries and Sanguinary Priests grant), would probably throw our list a little out of balance toward the overpowered side of the scale. However, I hate that the very important "medical" aspect of the Wolf Priest's fluff has been completely disregarded in this version of the codex. Especially as Wolf Priests did not use the same wargear as those other medical figures (no Narthecium, and no Blood Chalice), Phil Kelly could have easily just kept the Healing Potions and Balms, and included a special rule that isn't a USR. A simple "ignore the first unsaved wound" in the unit would have sufficed. This would not have been unbalancing at all, and would have included a rule for the unit that is an appropriate nod to the background material. It is a relatively easy solution, and failing to address it really is a failing in the new codex.

Options

-Healing Potions and Salves.....................5pts

Healing Potions and Salves: Once per turn the Wolf Priest, or a single model in his squad(chosen after all armor saves are made), counts as having the Feel no Pain USR.

[MaveriK]

Ehh sorry guys but I'm more interested in who threw that shuriken! anyway.. my fluff thinking is that, since our men are of purebred Fenrisian stock, with no need of such things like "no feel no pain." So I say, let our astartes brothers have em. We face glory in the battlefield, death is just the icing on the cake.

[*Furyou Miko]

Wolf Priests are also wise in the ways of medicine. In battle they use these skills to ease the suffering of wounded comrades. They are responsible for performing the benedicto ultimatus and removing the geneseed of fallen Space Wolves.

 

Don't know about you guys, but it states pretty specifically there that Space Wolf battlefield medicine basically boils down to "euthanise or deal later."

[Grey Mage]

Wolf Priests are also wise in the ways of medicine. In battle they use these skills to ease the suffering of wounded comrades. They are responsible for performing the benedicto ultimatus and removing the geneseed of fallen Space Wolves.

 

Don't know about you guys, but it states pretty specifically there that Space Wolf battlefield medicine basically boils down to "euthanise or deal later."

Ironically enough, ease the suffering can just mean hitting them with a shot of morphine- and given the nature, biology, and temperment of marines youve just made them 'feel no pain' and up on their feet.

 

Though yes, they get to kill those to wounded to fight again... supposedly almost any marine can recover gene-seed though.

[Wulfnar Skarbjorn]

Hail Brothers, Long time SW player and B&C reader, First time poster, figured id give my two cents.

 

Well there are always other ways to balance a list. The principle remains the same to me though; Wolf Priests should have Narthecium in their wargear!

 

No, Wolf Priests should not.

 

Reasons already listed further up the page by many people.

 

My closing thought is that if your that envious of what the Blood Angels have, then take a look at their dex and figure out how you can fit your list to their dex.

 

Now im not directly attacking you or anyone else who agress with you, but if you have been playing Space Wolves a long time (yes/no) you should be as other are in the fact that its not the rule not being there thats the problem, its the principal of our character and fluff that have been the building block of who and what the Space Wolves are, and in turn, Space Wolf players.

 

 

I'm not a Space Wolf player so there is no envy for me. But I do think the little tid-bits of fluff in the back ground should be included within the game as much as possible without unbalancing it. I don't see why GW couldn't balance Wolf Priests in this case.

 

It's just nice to have a bit of representation of what we enjoy reading about in our game.

 

This i agree with, Not only are the BAs an example but the DAs and BTs (yes i realise they are 4th ed) but all still have super chaps of old... Now correct me if im wrong but WOlf Priest have been nerfed inline with current nilla chaplain, who still give a whole unit fearless by their sheer presence not an item, and also allow rerolls to hit during the first round of combat.

 

Back in the day wolf priests were (and still are =P) superior to nilla chaplain, but this was for Fluff reasons as well as gameplay, they used to be I5 BS5 with double the attacks in 3rd, and were even better in 4th. Thats because they were consider spiritual leaders leading by example where normal chaplains are a conduit for belief.

 

 

Elites choice would be interesting, but it could be prohibitive and strange. Wolf Priests are men with great experience that can even give advice to a Wolf Lord and is recuited streight from the ranks of Long Fangs exclusively (to my knowledge). That makes a Wolf Priest very capable of command beyond the station of medic and Spiritral Leader and commands some serious respect rather then an elite. Elites tend to be reserved for the ultra killy squads and other commendable personal that don't fit in HQ, the Wolf Priest sounds very much a HQ due to their importence.

 

Correct. Allow me to provide a quote, because it is relevant here:

 

Wolf Priests

 

Where other Chapters have both Apothecaries and Chaplains, the Space Wolves have their Wolf Priests. The Wolf Priests are amongst the most revered men of the Chapter and are responsible only to the Great Wolf himself. They are hard, grim men, knowledgeable in the sagas of the Chapter's history. They recruit new brothers, oversee their training and minister to their spiritual needs. Wolf Priests are also wise in the ways of medicine. In battle they use these skills to ease the suffering of wounded comrades. They are responsible for performing the benedicto ultimatus and removing the geneseed of fallen Space Wolves.

 

Wolf Priests are chosen from the ranks of the Long Fangs. Becoming a Priest means severing all ties with their former pack-brothers and Great Company. It is a great loss, and they are mourned as dead by those they leave behind. To symbolise this they take on a new name when they don the sacred skull-embossed armour. This is important, for the Wolf Priests must be seen as impartial for they arbitrate in any dispute among the Companies. A convocation of Wolf Priests advises the Great Wolf on matters of Chapter law and discipline.

 

The Wolf Priests guard the Chapter's genetic seed, bio-culturing new implants and maintaining the vigour of the strain by weeding out any weakness or mutation. Their knowledge is deep, and for many centuries they have studied the effects of the cursed Wulfen gene helix in a search for a way to modify it and make safe the Chapter's genetic seed. However, their efforts have only succeeded in preventing the curse spreading, and it is unlikely that the damage can ever be repaired completely.

 

At least one Wolf Priest always stalks the surface of Fenris seeking promising new candidates to recruit into the ranks of the Space Wolves. Wolf Priests perform the ritual implanting of the geneseed and supervise every aspect of training the aspirants. Wolf Priests are the first Space Marines any new recruit has dealings with, and they sternly supervise their development. During training, Space Wolves gain an almost religious respect for these grim old men that never leaves them. A brawl between drunken Space Wolves can be broken up by a single word from a Wolf Priest. It is said that a Wolf Priest's face is the first and last that Space Wolves ever see. They look on it for the first time when they are recruited and for the final time when the Wolf Priest performs the benedicto ultimatus.

 

I mis the ignore one failed armour save a turn when not in CC, but the dex is good as is and doesnt need more stuff than it has.

 

The fang of morkai if I remember correctly is our Narcathium no? Its what makes us fearless.

 

Actually, the Fang of Morkai is more closely associated with the "Reductor" of a standard Marine Chapter, rather than the Narthecium. The equivilant wargear to the Narthecium within the Space Wolves Chapter was the "Healing Potions and Balms" upgrade option for Wolf Priests from the 3rd Edition Codex.

 

I agree that giving the Wolf Priest blanket FNP (like other Apothecaries and Sanguinary Priests grant), would probably throw our list a little out of balance toward the overpowered side of the scale. However, I hate that the very important "medical" aspect of the Wolf Priest's fluff has been completely disregarded in this version of the codex. Especially as Wolf Priests did not use the same wargear as those other medical figures (no Narthecium, and no Blood Chalice), Phil Kelly could have easily just kept the Healing Potions and Balms, and included a special rule that isn't a USR. A simple "ignore the first unsaved wound" in the unit would have sufficed. This would not have been unbalancing at all, and would have included a rule for the unit that is an appropriate nod to the background material. It is a relatively easy solution, and failing to address it really is a failing in the new codex.

 

Valerian

 

^^ this is the stuff in black and white. And i agree with it fully, now looking at the fluff (and i have played both BAs and SWs in my time long before 5th ed) they were both enjoyable. Now i feel SWs have been let down, all our character and fluff has been left behind to supercede an idea of fair, rahter than the idea of a Space Wolf. Death company got a WS increase, so Harded Wolf Guard that are the next in line for the Position of Wolf Lord should their great companies Lord perish are still 4, but these crazed white horns are WS5... madness doesnt suddenly give skill. Someone else mentioned Ulrik and he has always been my Fav chara followed by Ragnar, Ragnar i dont mind in 5th they got it pretty well, but Ulrik fell so far short it sours the Mead in my mug. there was a time when he had a 2+/4++ that changed in 3rd for a 3+/4++ but he still had a frost blade. Now he has a rule that give rerolls against T5 and higher and yet really needs it anyway and cant even wound T8 due to not being S5 and there is just so much more wrong with him, like (yes again the fluff) his biggest day was him slaying 3 berserkers quiker than they could move defending his fallen Wolf Lord and out of nowwhere he pulls the T5 hatred card? Atleast giving him a frostblade would characterise the whole Slayers Oath thing a little more. As i mention its not the rules its not the unfairness, its the little things of being a wolf, and as above mentions giving FnP as a 50 pt upgrade would be a decision, some would take it and others wouldnt depending on the army and situation, Besides (and this goes for all) if its really bothering you turn 5 Long Fang Plasma Cannons on the FnP units and it means nothing (as new FnP rules state it cannot be used again double T, Pwr wps/CC attk that ignore armour and AP2 or lower weapons.).

 

And where did the Master crafted items go, i understand that we arnt on terms with the Techmarines and Mars, but doesnt mean we dont know how to make a good keen blade when we are warriors from birth fighting with Medieval weapons rather than the blasters other SM chapters recruiting worlds have?

[MaveriK]

And where did the Master crafted items go, i understand that we arnt on terms with the Techmarines and Mars, but doesnt mean we dont know how to make a good keen blade when we are warriors from birth fighting with Medieval weapons rather than the blasters other SM chapters recruiting worlds have?

master-crafted? that's just another fairy tale from our Iron Priest! :(

[Wysten]

I agree that giving feel no pain for 50 more points would be fine. 150 points is a lot to spend on a unit that:

 

A) Is replacing a full Grey Hunter squad

 

B ) Is not a Rune Priest, one of the most stable and useful HQ's in our codex, reguardless of army.

 

Hence any squad taking this 150 point unit (possibly more in skyclaws) would find him a major point sink.

 

 

Another option would be to give him a unique rule, something of the lines of:

 

After combat, roll a D6 for every squad member fallen that turn: On a roll of 4,5 or 6,/ 5,6 replace the model back on the field, as during the breif calm, the herbs are able enable the warrior to fight another day! Those that fail the save are more seriously wounded, more then that is immediately treatable, or is beyond the help of the wolf priest aside from to recover the gene seed.

 

That way, we have better insentive to break the other squad quickly that we can heal those that go down, without granting feel no pain. Because to be honest, I don't believe that the way medics are implied to give feel no pain is correct, while San Priests draw on their curse to inspire fury.

[Wulfnar Skarbjorn]

And where did the Master crafted items go, i understand that we arnt on terms with the Techmarines and Mars, but doesnt mean we dont know how to make a good keen blade when we are warriors from birth fighting with Medieval weapons rather than the blasters other SM chapters recruiting worlds have?

master-crafted? that's just another fairy tale from our Iron Priest! ;)

 

Curse them and the Skalds for their wicked tales of old! =P

[Alaitoc]

I don't think that ANY apothecary or priest should grant feel no pain! FnP should be only for the ones who actually don't feel pain due to lack of nerves, who are numb from magic/warp/drug use and the ones so freakishly mad that they just don't care! Not because they have a healer around? What are they going to do? Instaheal on the run?! Shoot drugs into the hurt on the run, before they go down?! No, that doesn't work for me!

 

Wolfpriests are fine as they are! AFTER the battle they heal the wounded, not DURING! Who cares about the hurt when you can protect the ones who are not while the battle is still going on?!

 

Sure, some boost would be nice, even for normal apoths or priests, like, if the squad they're with don't move that round, they can regenerate d3 wounds that the squad lost the turn before. The priest giving some stuff to his injured brothers, who can fight with some heavy drugs in their system. The rest of the squad can still shoot, but not the priest/apoth. who is buisy "healing" the fallen..

 

That's what I think at least...

[jmurph]

Don't understand some of the views here. Space wolves don't need painkillers! Yes, let's not have the option! hurpaderp :)

Older players may remember the healing herbs and balms from the previous codex. A similar option would have been nice (probably around a 25 pt upgrade). As would an option to have WG w/jumppacks join bloodclaws. And SS/THs that don't cost nearly so much when SWs are supposed to be the axe and hammer viking guys. But whatever. Apparently the design was to only make TWolf lords and Rune priests desirable generic HQ choices.

 

Mission accomplished!

[Wysten]

I don't think that ANY apothecary or priest should grant feel no pain! FnP should be only for the ones who actually don't feel pain due to lack of nerves, who are numb from magic/warp/drug use and the ones so freakishly mad that they just don't care! Not because they have a healer around? What are they going to do? Instaheal on the run?! Shoot drugs into the hurt on the run, before they go down?! No, that doesn't work for me!

 

Wolfpriests are fine as they are! AFTER the battle they heal the wounded, not DURING! Who cares about the hurt when you can protect the ones who are not while the battle is still going on?!

 

Sure, some boost would be nice, even for normal apoths or priests, like, if the squad they're with don't move that round, they can regenerate d3 wounds that the squad lost the turn before. The priest giving some stuff to his injured brothers, who can fight with some heavy drugs in their system. The rest of the squad can still shoot, but not the priest/apoth. who is buisy "healing" the fallen..

 

That's what I think at least...

 

I agree. Generally I don't believe medics should grant feel no pain, but to be fair, command squads would be useless otherwise. XD

 

From a design point of view though, San Priests are the only class that should grant feel no pain as it's drawing on the inherient madness bound in the geneseed, and from a design point of view they need it. Thing to consider is that any wounds a marine takes is a wound serious to them, it's not a flesh wound but a serious injury that only the completely mad or extremely tough would fight on. I agree with it's application into the codex as present, but any healing ability would probably have to be repersented afterwards.

 

Sounds a interesting ability, though to be honest, it sounds a lot like a Iron Priest. The moment the Chaps squad stops moving, it stops being useful, I would only take it if it were a freebee. Just an addon to the main package and a more useful Iron Priest. XD

 

Don't understand some of the views here. Space wolves don't need painkillers! Yes, let's not have the option! hurpaderp ;)

Older players may remember the healing herbs and balms from the previous codex. A similar option would have been nice (probably around a 25 pt upgrade). As would an option to have WG w/jumppacks join bloodclaws. And SS/THs that don't cost nearly so much when SWs are supposed to be the axe and hammer viking guys. But whatever. Apparently the design was to only make TWolf lords and Rune priests desirable generic HQ choices.

 

Mission accomplished!

To be fair, the HQ for marines list is a very small part of the list anyways. The biggest impacting choices are the Forge Master and Captain on Bike, as it changes the list, nothing in any of the successors really have something that greatly changes the list that is also generic. Chapelins don't really see any use, even in Blood Angels when the Labie with Blood Lance is often a better choice, so it's not a isolated insident.

 

Chaplelins of all types are kind of underplayed since they only effect a squad rather then a army and Wolf Lords/Captains don't really have a board wide application towards leadership anymore, so they are not taken at all unless

 

A) Wolf Lord Deathstar.

 

B ) You want bikes as troops in space marines.

 

C) Fluff obligation, though for most marine lists, it would be harmful for the list to take him.

 

So theres a bit of work on for the 6th edition. That being said, most codexes have only 2 good HQ choices anyway, not counting specials.

 

I could see the Rune Priest taking a 25 point rise.