Captain Idaho Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Yes I definitely agree that the event of wound allocation "abuse" is more regular occurance in certain armies than others. Models with small units with several weapon upgrades are much more susceptable to the rule which means elite armies like Space Marines and their variants. Probably happens every game for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algesan Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 However the rule applies to everyone and do you really find it unbalancing (or more unbalancing than the old SGT, heavy and special weapons survive all fire until the end)? Or is like the silly combi-weapon debate over expended combi-weapons being a "new" profile vs unexpended combi-weapons or not. In the end, it does change how the game plays out, but so trivially that it really doesn't matter which interpretation gets used. You either get a unit that is easier to kill in a torrent of fire or a chance to kill an unexpended combi-weapon when you are plinking away with a few hits. There are several really unbalanced bits in the game, but the rules apply equally, even though some codices get better benefits from them. Say the inability to do final protective fire vs units with an 18-24" assault threat range. Unless you contrive a situation (and hope you aren't stuck holding and objective), something like flamers are worthless. Except for wound allocation games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 However the rule applies to everyone and do you really find it unbalancing (or more unbalancing than the old SGT, heavy and special weapons survive all fire until the end)? Acutally, I didn't find the old rule silly at all. If you're in a platoon and your SAW gunner goes down, someone else takes it over. The flavor text itself explained the rule that way. I didn't find it unbalancing either. In fact, I find the current rule has more of an effect on battle outcomes. With the old rule, luck played much less into who won a battle. Currently, couple lucky die rolls in the beginning which eliminate your meltaguns may make his armor invulnerable for the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 However the rule applies to everyone and do you really find it unbalancing (or more unbalancing than the old SGT, heavy and special weapons survive all fire until the end)? Acutally, I didn't find the old rule silly at all. If you're in a platoon and your SAW gunner goes down, someone else takes it over. The flavor text itself explained the rule that way. I didn't find it unbalancing either. In fact, I find the current rule has more of an effect on battle outcomes. With the old rule, luck played much less into who won a battle. Currently, couple lucky die rolls in the beginning which eliminate your meltaguns may make his armor invulnerable for the rest of the game. Definitely. I agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Also, remember that with the old rule, if you caused wounds equal to or more than the amount of guys in the squad then you could allocate the first hit, so there was a chance for that meltagun or Sergeant to be lost early on. Often overlooked, but potentially very powerful and handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I do remember that rule quite clearly, and used it when I could. But it came into play relatively rarely (mainly by Eldar, in my experience), and even then it was only a single wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algesan Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 However the rule applies to everyone and do you really find it unbalancing (or more unbalancing than the old SGT, heavy and special weapons survive all fire until the end)? Acutally, I didn't find the old rule silly at all. If you're in a platoon and your SAW gunner goes down, someone else takes it over. The flavor text itself explained the rule that way. I didn't find it unbalancing either. In fact, I find the current rule has more of an effect on battle outcomes. With the old rule, luck played much less into who won a battle. Currently, couple lucky die rolls in the beginning which eliminate your meltaguns may make his armor invulnerable for the rest of the game. Definitely. I agree 100%. As an Army vet, picking up the heavier weapon actually makes a lot of sense to me and it worked for me. The only issue is the survival of the NCO with the higher Ld score, but that could be handwaved away as "the old canny vet knows how to survive". Of course, your heavy weapon guy was the second guy to be targeted (after the radio) and then the NCO. We used it the first couple of games I played as the vets were going off 4th edition memories quite a bit as we found out when the rules started getting read. I'm actually not worried about the stray special weapon or model dying because I try to carry plenty of them, but I'll defer to your greater experience. Of course, to even get a shot at any special models the enemy has to score more wounds than the rest of the models. Granted that in the MSU environment being pushed for currently it takes a whole lot less shots to get at those models. Also, remember that with the old rule, if you caused wounds equal to or more than the amount of guys in the squad then you could allocate the first hit, so there was a chance for that meltagun or Sergeant to be lost early on. Often overlooked, but potentially very powerful and handy. Interesting, that works better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 The old rules where somewhat better, although like Wildfire says, the Torrent of Fire didn't really do much. The person who's on the receiving end of the wounds gets to choose which wound, so they can take the low AP wound on the Sergeant you picked out. So really it depends on the armour. Against Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard it could kill a special weapon or a leader, but against Marines the chances are it wouldn't do anything, but still worth a try. To be fair, though I don't mind the rules as they are at the moment, they really do slow the play down, and I think I'd prefer it if we just rolled the dice and then applied the wounds, would really speed things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Meh. If your meltagunner is vaporized by a bolt of plasma, I'm not sure his meltagun survives to be picked up and manned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Against Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard it could kill a special weapon or a leader, but against Marines the chances are it wouldn't do anything, but still worth a try. Eh, I've had my assualt termie squad lose it's termie libby more than once to torrent wounds from things like vindicators or barbed stranglers. It happens, especially with smaller squads (like termies and other elite infantry). Back in the days when fast skimmers were unbeatable and everyone used 6 man las/plas, I used to hate getting Fish of Furied because of that rule. To be fair, though I don't mind the rules as they are at the moment, they really do slow the play down, and I think I'd prefer it if we just rolled the dice and then applied the wounds, would really speed things up. That's a very good point, and an excellent reason to nix the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Against Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard it could kill a special weapon or a leader, but against Marines the chances are it wouldn't do anything, but still worth a try. Eh, I've had my assualt termie squad lose it's termie libby more than once to torrent wounds from things like vindicators or barbed stranglers. It happens, especially with smaller squads (like termies and other elite infantry). Back in the days when fast skimmers were unbeatable and everyone used 6 man las/plas, I used to hate getting Fish of Furied because of that rule. O, well in that case Marines do have to fear, I was just thinking of rapid firing bolters and maybe a flamer :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDunc Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Meh. If your meltagunner is vaporized by a bolt of plasma, I'm not sure his meltagun survives to be picked up and manned. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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