The Fall of the Space Wolves

[Decoy]

Since the new Dex came out a while back, I've been examining the artwork and the fluff detailed within. More and more as the editions progress, the Space Wolves seem to develop further and further away from the Imperium. Most recently (and memorably) in the new Codex, the Fang fires on Imperial ships (Ecclesiastical, I think, though I probably butchered the spelling) without so much as a warning. Furthermore (and I admit that this is a stretch), the majority of the artwork of the Wolves in the book screams not of loyalist Marines (examine the CSM and CBA for contrasts) but of Chaos, or Renegades.

 

Given the Wolves inherently independent mindset, their apparent believe that the Emperor is more a guardian of the afterlife than a leader, and their disdain (or outright hatred) for most of the governing bodies of the Imperium, I believe that it is not out of the realm of possibility that the Wolves might break away from the Imperium in lieu of defending humanity on their own terms. Known to be one of the more humanitarian chapters (seconded only by the Salamanders if memory serves), an independent Wolves chapter would act in the best interests of Humanity as a whole while retaining their moral standards in regards to how they treat the general populace. I would implore you to examine, for instance, fluff related to the Armageddon wars and the subsequent penal-colony-ization of surviving allied forces.

 

This thread is a bit of a sounding board and a call to arms of fluff-lovers in the Fang. How viable do you believe this to be? What fluff could you offer that would either refute or support this particular bit of speculation? In the wake of the (admittedly rather unbelievable) fluff release discussed downforum, I thought it a time to discuss not the past of the Wolves, but of the future. Perhaps Russ is alive, returns, and splinters from the Imperium, disgusted at what it has become? The Imperium finally pushes the Wolves too far and the Wolves break away voluntarily? The Imperium finally commits an atrocity so heinous that Logan can no longer stand aside and simply observe? What do you think, members of the Fang?

 

NOTE: This thread was born of idle curiosity and passing fancies. Try to keep it free of anything potentially inflammatory, please.

[Sarapham]

I do not think it would happen under Grimnar's watch. Logan seems to be, besides honorable, very practical. In his mind I believe there would not be anything good coming from total independence that would not be overshadowed by the negative aspects of having the Imperium as an enemy, because he knows full well of the "If you are not with us you are against us"- mentality of the Imperium as a whole.

 

The benefits of being rather autonomous as they already are within the Imperium, and having a chance to focus on true enemies instead of trying to avoid/faux-battle the Imperium will always keep the Wolf mind from going renegade. If nothing else I think they would stick it out to the end together with the imperium because they know when the Wolf Time comes Russ will set things right.

[Max_Dammit]

Fenris would not survive the break (Easy target for the whole imperium) and with that the wolves would fall.

[Decoy]

Saraphim: Granted, especially in regards to Logan's practicality. A split from the Imperium would indeed be perilous at the very best, and disastrous/fatal at the worst. I think that if the Wolves were to approach anything resembling a self-governing autonomy independent of the Imperial influence, they would do so with great caution. As it stands, the Wolves do enjoy a limited self-governance, even though it is mostly self-enforced. Perhaps we could examine this from a flip-side perspective: Do you think that the Wolves would pursue such an action if the Imperium pushed them too hard, directly? Say, an Inquisitor calls for full disclosure into their inner workings and an investigation into perceived "mutation" that is upheld by the administration of the Imperium? Renegades splitting from the Wolves are not unprecedented even due to internal conflict, let alone external meddling. Do you think that even Logan would have his price if the Imperium hassled them too hard?

 

Max: Good to see ya, mate. I agree that if the Wolves broke from the Imperium, they would become a target. However, I'm not entirely certain that any Imperial force would directly act against Fenris itself. While the Wolves may not command an Empire on par with the Ultramarines, they are far from lacking allies in their Segmentum, and I think that if Fenris were to split from the Imperum, at least some of their supporting allies would join them, creating something of a power bloc. If this scenario were to come to pass, do you think that the Imperium would begrudgingly avoid conflict rather than attempting to make war with a Wolves-led coalition of worlds?

 

 

ON EDIT: As another thought, let's say that the Wolves did split, and Fenris fell. The Wolves, in my mind, would take to the stars, as the Renegades before them had done, and the Chapter would ironically become something akin to a Black Templars crusade fleet, hunting enemies of humanity across the galaxy. Other thoughts?

[Sarapham]

Saraphim: Granted, especially in regards to Logan's practicality. A split from the Imperium would indeed be perilous at the very best, and disastrous/fatal at the worst. I think that if the Wolves were to approach anything resembling a self-governing autonomy independent of the Imperial influence, they would do so with great caution. As it stands, the Wolves do enjoy a limited self-governance, even though it is mostly self-enforced. Perhaps we could examine this from a flip-side perspective: Do you think that the Wolves would pursue such an action if the Imperium pushed them too hard, directly? Say, an Inquisitor calls for full disclosure into their inner workings and an investigation into perceived "mutation" that is upheld by the administration of the Imperium? Renegades splitting from the Wolves are not unprecedented even due to internal conflict, let alone external meddling. Do you think that even Logan would have his price if the Imperium hassled them too hard?

 

 

I´m not quite sure where their limit would be, because they see themselves as defenders of humanity and not just the Imperium. In that sense Logan would perhaps see that a war between the Wolves and the rest of the Imperium would cost more human lives than the Wolves would be ready to spill. In the long run he knows perfectly that the Wolves would always be on the run if they chose to completely go renegade, turning as you said into something that resembles Black Templars or even The Legion of the Damned, however they would never be able to perform their full duty as guardians like they do now. If such a thing would happen I believe they would rather make a last stand of some kind, to become a symbol of something just as described in Prospero Burns, rather than to endevour a losing war.

[Decoy]

I´m not quite sure where their limit would be, because they see themselves as defenders of humanity and not just the Imperium. In that sense Logan would perhaps see that a war between the Wolves and the rest of the Imperium would cost more human lives than the Wolves would be ready to spill. In the long run he knows perfectly that the Wolves would always be on the run if they chose to completely go renegade, turning as you said into something that resembles Black Templars or even The Legion of the Damned, however they would never be able to perform their full duty as guardians like they do now. If such a thing would happen I believe they would rather make a last stand of some kind, to become a symbol of something just as described in Prospero Burns, rather than to endevour a losing war.

 

Aye, agreed. If any attempt at autonomy were to come to pass, it would be done over a long discussion of all the Lords. Even my creative extrapolation cannot ever see a unilateral decision by the Great Wolf to split without complete agreement on all parts. Elsewise, I think we're in agreement in regards to what would happen. Either they'd be on the run, or they'd be starfaring without a home base, of sorts. I'd be willing to bank that they'd make a final stand (I haven't read Prospero Burns as of yet, so I can't comment on that) on their home planet, feet on the ground in defense of their ideals, honor, morals, what have you, on their turf, and in defense of their homes.

 

What I can't see (unless the Wolves went COMPLETELY Renegade) is the Wolves waging an offensive war against the Imperium, even if they went Independent. They might defend themselves and worlds under their protection, but in terms of offensive capability and actions, Logan would see such acts as direct war against Humanity and abstain. As you said, the cost in lives on both sides would probably not be a toll that the Great Wolf would be liable to take on either side. The question then becomes whether they run, or make a final stand. THAT is an interesting concept to ponder.

[Sarapham]

I´d like to imagine their last stand quite different. They all board their ships and head straight for Terra which would be the heart of the corruption they see, making the news of this ring true and wide, all human eyes on this strange event. As they start to reach closer to Terra they will be attacked by the Segmentum Solar Defenses, perhaps not even reaching close to Terra but still... their ships would start to burn like the funeral boats of the heroes that perished on Fenris.

 

In a sea of fire, without ever returning the fire themselves, and with the thought of Russ as their guide, they would all try in spirit to reach both the heart of the corrution, but also the heart of their Master. Their master being both the Allfather as well as Humanity as a whole and let them see they have reached a point in time where not even the most stark defenders of humanity have the right to exist.

[Gree]

Do you think that the Wolves would pursue such an action if the Imperium pushed them too hard, directly? Say, an Inquisitor calls for full disclosure into their inner workings and an investigation into perceived "mutation" that is upheld by the administration of the Imperium?

 

They would simply exercise their political weight. They are a First Founding Chapter. Grimnar is not stupid, he's played the poltical game for centuries. He has allies in the greater Imperium. He can deflect accusations if he so choses to.

 

Currently, the Space Wolves are best as is. If they actually go renagade then that will limit them. They will be effectively forced to steal or raid supplies from Forge Worlds (those supplies that Marine chapter forges can't make) and can't count on the support of the larger Imperium as a whole.

 

I´d like to imagine their last stand quite different. They all board their ships and head straight for Terra which would be the heart of the corruption they see, making the news of this ring true and wide, all human eyes on this strange event. As they start to reach closer to Terra they will be attacked by the Segmentum Solar Defenses, perhaps not even reaching close to Terra but still... their ships would start to burn like the funeral boats of the heroes that perished on Fenris.

 

They definitely won't even get close. Terra is the most heavily fortifed planet in the galaxy. The fleet at Terra probably alone outnumbers the entire Space Wolf fleet heavily, let alone the Segmentum Solar fleets.

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

Let's not forget why the dislike of the administratum and the ecclesiarchy is there.

 

The ecclesiarchy came to Fenris on a battle footing because they thought we were a bunch of mutating heretics. That's not something any loyal marine wants to hear, no matter what the inherent "flaw" in their geneseed may be. The wolves have defended mankind for millenia and didn't take kindly to the ecclesiarchy breathing down their necks and making demands.

 

The major problem with the high lords of Terra is more of a standpoint of the Great Wolf. After the war for Armageddon, the survivors that fought alongside the wolves and others to save their own planet from chaos were rounded up and "cleansed of taint". Maybe it's how things are done under the eyes of the administratum, but to Logan and the wolves it was insanity. Those people fought tooth and nail against a huge chaos incursion to save their planet from destruction, and their reward is being eliminated because they might be corrupted by being close to daemons.

 

It's not as if one day the wolves woke up and decided to raise a middle finger in the direction of Terra.

[Orphus]

Since the new Dex came out a while back, I've been examining the artwork and the fluff detailed within. More and more as the editions progress, the Space Wolves seem to develop further and further away from the Imperium. Most recently (and memorably) in the new Codex, the Fang fires on Imperial ships (Ecclesiastical, I think, though I probably butchered the spelling) without so much as a warning. Furthermore (and I admit that this is a stretch), the majority of the artwork of the Wolves in the book screams not of loyalist Marines (examine the CSM and CBA for contrasts) but of Chaos, or Renegades.

 

Given the Wolves inherently independent mindset, their apparent believe that the Emperor is more a guardian of the afterlife than a leader, and their disdain (or outright hatred) for most of the governing bodies of the Imperium, I believe that it is not out of the realm of possibility that the Wolves might break away from the Imperium in lieu of defending humanity on their own terms. Known to be one of the more humanitarian chapters (seconded only by the Salamanders if memory serves), an independent Wolves chapter would act in the best interests of Humanity as a whole while retaining their moral standards in regards to how they treat the general populace. I would implore you to examine, for instance, fluff related to the Armageddon wars and the subsequent penal-colony-ization of surviving allied forces.

 

This thread is a bit of a sounding board and a call to arms of fluff-lovers in the Fang. How viable do you believe this to be? What fluff could you offer that would either refute or support this particular bit of speculation? In the wake of the (admittedly rather unbelievable) fluff release discussed downforum, I thought it a time to discuss not the past of the Wolves, but of the future. Perhaps Russ is alive, returns, and splinters from the Imperium, disgusted at what it has become? The Imperium finally pushes the Wolves too far and the Wolves break away voluntarily? The Imperium finally commits an atrocity so heinous that Logan can no longer stand aside and simply observe? What do you think, members of the Fang?

 

NOTE: This thread was born of idle curiosity and passing fancies. Try to keep it free of anything potentially inflammatory, please.

Regarding the chaos-like art I was a little shocked when I saw it, maybe just to represent more ornate armour?

I think the reason the Ecclesairchy came to Fenris was to check and probe for signs of mutation and abomination.^^

And yes I believe what you're saying.

Becoming like the BT would have massive disadvantages though. If new space wolves were needed would we just take random recruits and hope for the best? Would we risk going on trips back to Fenris despite the high likelihood that the planet has been heavily blockaded and it's population assimilated, brainwashed and sterilised? Or what I think would be more likely would be for the wolves to raid prisons (prison planets?) and take the most brutal ones and promise them freedom if they join the chapter?( not forcefully, that's borderline chaos, that is).

[Gree]

I think the reason the Ecclesairchy came to Fenris was to check and probe for signs of mutation and abomination.^^

 

I always found that bit of fluff strange considering that the Ecclesaircy and the Astartes pretty much agreed to stay out of each others matters. (The whole Rosarius agreement thing) and yet one of them tries to mess with a First Founding Chapter?

[Wysten]

No, they were trying to get on the space wolf planet because they had the impression that the Space Wolves did not follow the great religon of the imperium, so they wanted to directly investigate the planets population. To be honest, it was a increadably bold move, but they probably thought that the Space Wolves would have to let them land due to their devine purpose from the emperor (Convert all none believers, or kill them).

 

Of course, they were very wrong and the space wolves blew them out of the sky. The Ecclesairchy are the fanatics of the worst kind that probably do think that with enough faith they could push a first founding chapter around, that much was clear due to the fact they declared war and enrolled all sorts of forces to try and force their way onto the planet. It took a few years of futile war for them to figure out that attacking Fenis was not their brightest idea. The fluff is weird, but I've never thought it to be unusial for the delusional.

[Orphus]

I think the reason the Ecclesairchy came to Fenris was to check and probe for signs of mutation and abomination.^^

 

I always found that bit of fluff strange considering that the Ecclesaircy and the Astartes pretty much agreed to stay out of each others matters. (The whole Rosarius agreement thing) and yet one of them tries to mess with a First Founding Chapter?

Perhaps they think this makes the wolves more susceptible to the influence of chaos or that the wolves are already corrupted...of course we wolves know better :blink:

[Gree]

No, they were trying to get on the space wolf planet because they had the impression that the Space Wolves did not follow the great religon of the imperium, so they wanted to directly investigate the planets population. To be honest, it was a increadably bold move, but they probably thought that the Space Wolves would have to let them land due to their devine purpose from the emperor (Convert all none believers, or kill them).

 

But the the Ecclesiarchy does not bother with the Astartes because of a prior agreement.

 

Index Astartes Chaplains

 

Some amongst the Ecclesiarchy see the Space Marines as dangerous, heretical deviants, and certainly Wars of Faith have been fought for far less. However, the Space Marines are unfailingly loyal to the Emperor, even if they do not recognise his divinity. At the same time, the Space Marines are to be revered for they share aspects of their genetic structure with the Emperor himself. An uneasy truce has developed between the Adeptus Astartes and the Ministorum, though occasional disputes shatter this wary peace.

 

The Chaplains of the Space Marine Chapters are gifted with their sacred Rosarius by the Ecclesiarchy in recognition of the link between the two organisations, though this is little more than a symbolic gesture of peace between them. Most commonly, this powerful protective amulet is worn around the neck in the form of an ornate cross, and it is sometimes referred to as their 'soul armour', capable of protecting them even from a direct hit by a lascannon.

 

Most Astartes don't worship the Emperor as a god. The Ultramarines don't, the Blood Angels don't, the White Scars don't, etc, etc. why the Ecclesiarchy would bother after ten thousand years with a First Founding Chapter is beyond me. I can understand chapters of later foundings with less political leanings, but the Space Wolves are one of the first Founding with great poltiical influence.

 

The Ecclesiarchy are fanatics yes, but they arn't stupid. They can play the political game too. Messing with a first Founding Chapter in clear ignorance of a prior agreement is just stupid.

[Orphus]

No, they were trying to get on the space wolf planet because they had the impression that the Space Wolves did not follow the great religon of the imperium, so they wanted to directly investigate the planets population. To be honest, it was a increadably bold move, but they probably thought that the Space Wolves would have to let them land due to their devine purpose from the emperor (Convert all none believers, or kill them).

 

But the the Ecclesiarchy does not bother with the Astartes because of a prior agreement.

 

Index Astartes Chaplains

 

Some amongst the Ecclesiarchy see the Space Marines as dangerous, heretical deviants, and certainly Wars of Faith have been fought for far less. However, the Space Marines are unfailingly loyal to the Emperor, even if they do not recognise his divinity. At the same time, the Space Marines are to be revered for they share aspects of their genetic structure with the Emperor himself. An uneasy truce has developed between the Adeptus Astartes and the Ministorum, though occasional disputes shatter this wary peace.

 

The Chaplains of the Space Marine Chapters are gifted with their sacred Rosarius by the Ecclesiarchy in recognition of the link between the two organisations, though this is little more than a symbolic gesture of peace between them. Most commonly, this powerful protective amulet is worn around the neck in the form of an ornate cross, and it is sometimes referred to as their 'soul armour', capable of protecting them even from a direct hit by a lascannon.

 

Most Astartes don't worship the Emperor as a god. The Ultramarines don't, the Blood Angels don't, the White Scars don't, etc, etc. why the Ecclesiarchy would bother after ten thousand years with a First Founding Chapter is beyond me. I can understand chapters of later foundings with less political leanings, but the Space Wolves are one of the first Founding with great poltiical influence.

 

The Ecclesiarchy are fanatics yes, but they arn't stupid. They can play the political game too. Messing with a first Founding Chapter in clear ignorance of a prior agreement is just stupid.

Most space marines including the space wolves see the Emperor as the greatest man that ever lived while the large bulk of the Imperium worship the Emperor as a god.

[Gree]

No, they were trying to get on the space wolf planet because they had the impression that the Space Wolves did not follow the great religon of the imperium, so they wanted to directly investigate the planets population. To be honest, it was a increadably bold move, but they probably thought that the Space Wolves would have to let them land due to their devine purpose from the emperor (Convert all none believers, or kill them).

 

But the the Ecclesiarchy does not bother with the Astartes because of a prior agreement.

 

Index Astartes Chaplains

 

Some amongst the Ecclesiarchy see the Space Marines as dangerous, heretical deviants, and certainly Wars of Faith have been fought for far less. However, the Space Marines are unfailingly loyal to the Emperor, even if they do not recognise his divinity. At the same time, the Space Marines are to be revered for they share aspects of their genetic structure with the Emperor himself. An uneasy truce has developed between the Adeptus Astartes and the Ministorum, though occasional disputes shatter this wary peace.

 

The Chaplains of the Space Marine Chapters are gifted with their sacred Rosarius by the Ecclesiarchy in recognition of the link between the two organisations, though this is little more than a symbolic gesture of peace between them. Most commonly, this powerful protective amulet is worn around the neck in the form of an ornate cross, and it is sometimes referred to as their 'soul armour', capable of protecting them even from a direct hit by a lascannon.

 

Most Astartes don't worship the Emperor as a god. The Ultramarines don't, the Blood Angels don't, the White Scars don't, etc, etc. why the Ecclesiarchy would bother after ten thousand years with a First Founding Chapter is beyond me. I can understand chapters of later foundings with less political leanings, but the Space Wolves are one of the first Founding with great poltiical influence.

 

The Ecclesiarchy are fanatics yes, but they arn't stupid. They can play the political game too. Messing with a first Founding Chapter in clear ignorance of a prior agreement is just stupid.

Most space marines including the space wolves see the Emperor as the greatest man that ever lived while the large bulk of the Imperium worship the Emperor as a god.

 

I know, I just stated that twice.

[Hyaenidae]

I agree that if the Wolves broke from the Imperium, they would become a target. However, I'm not entirely certain that any Imperial force would directly act against Fenris itself. While the Wolves may not command an Empire on par with the Ultramarines, they are far from lacking allies in their Segmentum, and I think that if Fenris were to split from the Imperum, at least some of their supporting allies would join them, creating something of a power bloc. If this scenario were to come to pass, do you think that the Imperium would begrudgingly avoid conflict rather than attempting to make war with a Wolves-led coalition of worlds?

 

I'm sure Lugft Huron thought the same thing, wolf-cousin. His empire is now ashes despite running quite the power bloc of planets himself, plus having an over-strength chapter, and three other chapters besides that. The Astral Claws walked out with barely a handful of marines, their leader ruined unto death, their fleets broken, their homeplanet ruined, etc, etc...despite all the Imperium's shortcomings, they never forget a broken oath, and fully believe in blood for blood. At the very least, the (hypothetical) Empire of Wolves, and Fenris herself, would burn, and the Wolves left on the run.

[old git]

The Wolves are tied so closely to Fenris they would never contemplate abandoning their home world. The concepts of loyalty and honour are so ingrained within Fenrisian society, and therefore within the Wolves, that to even think about rescinding that loyalty would, I think, tear the chapter apart. The Eccliasarchy and the Inquisition have both been mentioned as possible instigators of secession from the Imperium but the Wolves are above even those organisations. The Wolves are one of the first founding chapters, before the =][= and Eccliasarchy were even thought of and so are willing, and more than able, to remind them of what true duty is. The Wolves of Fenris have remained loyal to the Emperor and by extension, the Imperium, for over 10,000 years. I don't see that changing ever, and come the Wolf Time will be at the forefront of the Battle to end all Battles.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Unfortunate as it may be, the Wolves wouldn't survive breaking off from the Imperium IF they went into open warfare. At the luckiest after the big fight, maybe half a company worth of Wolves might survive to slowly die later on. However, the Imperium would pay very dearly during and after the removal of the Wolves.

 

Though I don't think this hypothetical situation would happen. Though Logan may even go as far as to violently oppose the High Lords in certain situations, he's still profusely loyal to the average Imperial citizen and Mankind. In a galaxy going straight to hell in a hand basket, I think the best possible situation in his mind is to fight the good fight and keep mankind alive until Russ comes back. I think Logan, a wise old wolf, would choose a more... tactical... form of dissension against the Imperial Government.

 

EDIT: Oh, and for what it's worth the Wolves would have my Night Angels' support for the honor of Mankind against the corrupt part of Imperial government. My chapter would most likely get rocked as well if it went in open warfare, but I don't think Logan would go there and neither would I unless big push came to forceful shove.

[Starkhan Fellblade]

Lets face it the imperial government in 41m is corrupt or at least part of it is. In the past high lords of Terra have gone renegade. As of right now the wolves will not turn against the Imperium. They do not agree with often times but will not take overt action unless one of the high lords is proven to be corrupt or any number of them. The Wolves Of Fenris do whats best for the people of the imperium not the government. a war with the imperium would endanger the citizens of the imperium.

 

The point is the wolves will not engage the imperium as renegades. They will only strike at it to remove any overt corruption. Such an attack would be supported by other chapters and the imperium. The wolves are to loyal to the emperor and will continue to do what Russ would have done for the foreseeable future.

 

Starkhan

[hendrik]

another although silly reason why we would not turn, what would happen with our brothers in the deathwatch, before they even might get word of what's happening they might already be dealt with by the inquisition. how would the other first founding chapters react on this?especially the blood angels who suffer from some likewise mutations too.

[Demonslayer]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the only reason the Space Wolves are still part of the Imperium is because the High Lords of Terra fear, if they take on the Space Wolves, The Imperium itself would be left devastated and open to Chaos attack. That's not including allies that will join the Space Wolves and Logan knows this and why no one can set foot on Fenris without the Space Wolves say so ;)

 

As an attack on Terra, I think our Wolf Scouts could do some damage, although I don't think the whole Space Wolves fleet would get near, or even try for fear of helping Chaos.

 

Its more believable that Logan will use his contacts to gain a stronger alliance to bring down the High Lords ect, to build a better Leadership in the name of the Emperor. Of course Logan wouldn't be able to be part of this Leadership, only help build it ;)

 

My views anyway.

 

If we did split from the Imperium, I think we will be pretty much left alone for awhile, some may attack us, as long as we leave the Imperium alone and not using it to feed our new Empire :)

[Orphus]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the only reason the Space Wolves are still part of the Imperium is because the High Lords of Terra fear, if they take on the Space Wolves, The Imperium itself would be left devastated and open to Chaos attack. That's not including allies that will join the Space Wolves and Logan knows this and why no one can set foot on Fenris without the Space Wolves say so :(

 

As an attack on Terra, I think our Wolf Scouts could do some damage, although I don't think the whole Space Wolves fleet would get near, or even try for fear of helping Chaos.

 

Its more believable that Logan will use his contacts to gain a stronger alliance to bring down the High Lords ect, to build a better Leadership in the name of the Emperor. Of course Logan wouldn't be able to be part of this Leadership, only help build it B)

 

My views anyway.

 

If we did split from the Imperium, I think we will be pretty much left alone for awhile, some may attack us, as long as we leave the Imperium alone and not using it to feed our new Empire :)

Wait a minute- are you suggesting,actually suggesting that the space wolves, if ever they went out of the imperium's lot, would decide to get cuddly with chaos or attack Terra? and that they would stand a chance? :huh:

*shakes head sadly*

[Demonslayer]

would decide to get cuddly with chaos or attack Terra?

 

A big NO. I don't think they would even try for fear if they did, it would most likely help chaos and us Wolves can't stand for that.

 

The only reason we are still as we are, is because of the chaos threat. If there was no chaos the High Lords and ect will happily get rid of us

[Hyaenidae]

Wait a minute- are you suggesting,actually suggesting that the space wolves, if ever they went out of the imperium's lot, would decide to get cuddly with chaos or attack Terra? and that they would stand a chance? :huh:

*shakes head sadly*

 

If, and this is one big if, Logan could gather a big enough task force, Terra could be possible. The Wolves couldn't do it alone, though. Hell, the Black Templars, Fire Hawks, and Soul Drinkers coalition were able to crack Terra open to end Vandire...the Wolves could too, with some assistance. Mind you, I'm thinking more along the line of ending another corrupt High Lord, where he could ask other chapters to 'turn a blind eye', as it were, or join him even. If the Wolves ever went totally rogue, and tried to carve out a chunk of territory out of the Imperium, every single First Founding Chapter would fall on them in a second (to preserve honour of the original Legions), as would huge numbers of other chapters (due to honour, zeal, hatred, or just wanting a piece of a Legion), the big =I=, and on and on. Terra wouldn't even be an option.