Vanguard Loadout at 2000 points

[Wysten]

Obivously, taking 5 stormsheilds is excessive, but at the same time stormsheilds enable them to block power fists and their power weapons. Which means in moderiation, stormsheilds will be effective.

 

Taking 5 of them? Too much, but assigning one or two is within reason. Being able to add some special endurance may result in more damage over two turns.

[Malatox]

I don't take them yet, but when I've completed my 1500 point list I'm sure to bring a squad or two in.

I was thinking of Sergeant with thunder-hammer, 1 basic guy, 1 with storm-shield, 1 with power-weapon and 1 with lightning-claw and storm-shield.

Malatox

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Giving VV SS's allows them to combat the hammer units we would normally only be able to counter with Assault Termies.

[Mezkh]

Why is it when anyone mentions VV people have an instant hard on for SS? (rhetorical question)

 

If you are trying to save your VV you are using the wrong.

 

Below, seems to be the basis of the mainstream consensus of what a good VV load out is.

 

VV: 5xJP and 5xSS = 265 (not including weapons)

 

Once you start to add weapons these 5 guys you start climbing into the 300’s easily.

 

To me this is expensive and inefficient plus you also lose your +1 ATK bonus due to the SS.

 

My question is if anyone is willing to cough up 300+ points on 5 guys then why not spend a few more points and get a deep striking Crusader filled with SS Termies. You don’t have first turn CC strike but you now have two heavily defendable threats that pack a lot of offensive power and everyone has a SS – Yay! :P (sarcasm)

 

I believe VV work best when they are cheap and their roll is understood to be suicidal. the more points spent on defense the less efficient they are and the further they drift from their original purpose.

 

To demonstrate my VV philosophy I simply give each guy a PW and call it a day.

 

VV: 5xJP and 5xPW = 225

 

Cheap and efficient

 

If they miss their mark, sucks for me, but since they are so cheap I can field more VV and/ or RAS.

 

I do agree. SS really are a point sink.

I actually go a bit cheaper. 380 for ten Vanguard with 4 power weapons, 4 meltabombs. Even split, or a 4xPW for 210 and 4xMB for 170.

 

Makes the Vanguard compliment the army, not be the army. Even stormshields aren't enough to make each model resilient enough to justify 65-80 points per model. Their strength lies in offense.

[Mike the Zealous]

@ Mezkh: Yea i was surprised that i nearly tabled the guy! He was running a Drop Pod/ Mech list that had 2 Ironclads, 1 Ven dread and 2 shooty dreads, along with a squad of sternguard, tac guys and a Master of the Forge. It was pretty epic! He went full reserve and I went full Deep Strike, so it was kinda like "I dare you to drop your army first!" "No dude, I dare YOU to drop your dreads in!" lol oh, and the DC kicked all types of tail, and only lost 4 guys out of 6 over the entire game... Im definitely keeping them in the list, might take out the IP's to put in more Meltabombs.

 

The Meltabombs were really slick on the VV, cuz one of the VV squads (TH, 2 MB, 2 PW) got stuck in combat with 2 Ironclads for 2 or so turns, and managed to pop em both as they died. Definitely got their points back :D

 

@Spec-ops and Mezkh: yea, i generally use the VV as balls-to-the-wall Hatchet men (gave a few of em power axes :P ) In truth, they didnt even need the storm shields due to them being constantly in cover or behind the RAS as they ate their way up the guy's drop zone.

 

Honestly, i was surprised by the added versatility of the Meltabombs. Ive never had such luck with rolls against armor, and they were the reason i was able to beat the Ironclads in combat. Im not so hot about the IP's though, they tend to be circumstantial at best, but its nice to have em when you need that S8 shot.

 

 

So yea, this list and VV setup are definitely going into the playbook. :D

 

Edit: The points about Storm Shields do have merit though... Ill have to try that setup next then, cuz i got a game against a Blood Angel player on saturday, so ill be able to let you guys know how they work against a fellow son of Sanguinius!

[SamaNagol]

You are looking at VGV with Storm Shields in a vacuum. they cost x points and you can make them do this and that instead.

 

Yes, that's a given. But when you are running a PURE DoA list, there is a big hole when it comes to a tarpit unit. You can either run Death Company which are equally expensive but still die to PWs, Fists and Hammers. Or you can take a big unit of VGV and put 4 Storm Shields in there to ensure they have enough invulnerables to take on anything.

 

And as I said before, you can always combat squad them into uneven loadouts if you want to make the most of the chargey power weapons. But to be honest, Heroic Intervention isn't something you can rely on when running a DoA list. Its a big risk, in an already risky army. If you want a unit that will slice enemy infantry to pieces, then you are far better off with Sanguinary Guard and a Priest.

[Mezkh]

I find the problem with Storm Shields is, stating the obvious, they fail to stop any single power weapon wound getting through 1/3 of the time.

 

It can't really be called a good tarpit when you're paying minimum 50 points per model for the privilege of stopping that wound 'just' 2 times out of 3.

 

I'd almost prefer an 18 point Assault Marine to eat that power weapon wound 3 times out of 3, because there's another whole Assault Marine where he came from, and then some - for the same cost.

 

DOA deals with rock/hammer units by shooting them with Melta/plasma, and/or drowning them in a bunch of Str5/Init5 attacks, and finishing them off with a powerfist or two. Tarpit? Well there isn't much that's durable, can chew through 10 Fearless WS4/T4 bodies where any no retreat wounds bounce off a 3+ and 4+ FNP in a couple of rounds, and is points effective at the same time.

 

Vanguard as a rule aren't really cost effective when put toe-to-toe with other dedicated assault units, because those enemy units often beat out Vanguard point for point - and those units want to be in an assault against a juicy target that (even though I hate the term) they can 'make their points back' against.

Vanguard pay a premium for the ability to initiate an assault almost anywhere on the board, and generally the best way to return on that investment is to put them against stuff that ideally wants to not be in assault. Points spent on Stormshields are wasted against those units.