New to Blood Angels - Tactical Squad question

[BlueThumb]

I've been playing Space Marines for a few months, and now I'm branching out to Blood Angels. I've got some new models I'm working on, and before I go paint up a bunch of Tactical Marines in Flesh Tearers colors I'd like to know - is there any non-fluff reason to run Tactical Squads in a Blood Angels army? Assault squads (and perhaps Death Company?) seem to be where it's at in terms of troop choices.. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Thanks!

[Leonaides]

put simply- there are lots of good reasons to use tac squads. Unfortunately, there are too many to list them all, and as with any tactical idea, depends on you, the rest of your army, your opponent, the terrain, etc... Take some, try them out and see what works for you is my advice.

[Drachnon]

I take a tactical squad if they can serve a purpose in my list, in my allround list I field one and combat squad them to grab objectives while supporting the assault marines. However most people prefer a real assault army and that when tactical squad usually find themselves replaced with assault squads since then there's really no reason to do otherwise.

[Demoulius]

i typically run 1 or 2 in my army. mostly they sit on their bum and hold objectives though <_<

 

my favorite loadout still has to be 10 man, PG, MM and PF. i always keep a priest handy for them though. one would be amazed to see what a squad with FnP and some cover can survive! theyre quite hard to get rid of in combat and tbh, with the edition of a priest with PW they can do some damage in combat as well :ph34r:

 

the PG and MM work good together because they both have the same max range. a max range that is also shared by bolters no less! so typically when 1 can fire, the others can fire as well (special weapons) when an enemy is getting closer you can either rapid fire them to tiny bits or charge them as well. typically i stay on my objective and thin their numbers, then kick them in combat. (against stealers and the like) sometimes squishier things like guard get close though and its safe to get off oyur objective for a turn, so long as you dont stray to far awyay from that important cover save :teehee:

 

i take them because it lets me go all out with the rest of my army basicly. theyre a pretty reliable objective sitter, even more sturdy when they have the red thirst :jaw: youll laugh at your opponents efforts to remove them from their spot :angry:

[vharing]

it really depends on how offensive or defensive you want your list to be. I ran 2 squads in the last tourny with a priest each and they were pure gold.

[Mezkh]

I think they're handy with a Plasma Cannon/Flamer loadout. They force your opponent to consider spacing, and almost force a run move to follow any Deepstrike.

 

But they don't fit DoA/Razorspam.

 

They do work really well backed up with Dreadnought 'muscle'.

[shan vener]

well here's my take a few blood angel units

 

tac squad

i personally don't use them, I play a descent of angels army. but they are a valued unit. back when we had the PDF i always fielded 2

 

assault squad

i always take 2 at full streangth. assault squads are THE blood angel unit.use em' once and you'll know why

 

death company

i don't care what everone else says they are worth it. even though your opponent can control them due to rage, no one effectively knows how to. and besides that they are scary as hell when kitted out right. like mine have 8 power swords and 2 hand flamers.

[Zeller]

I'm a tactical squad man. They have average ranged firepower and, as their name implies, can setup to perform a variety of roles. Access to 5 types of heavy weapons and 3 special weapons is fantastic. My RAS are typically used in a traditional manner of supporting the tactical's charge or pouncing on a weakened squad and destroying it. You pay 40 points more for a rhino mounted tactical squad but you gain immunity to small arms, your squad cannot be targetted by psychic powers, they have the same mobility as a RAS at the expense of not being killed if their transport finds itself in difficult terrain, and the vehicle can act as a LOS wall to allow the marines to advance behind it. As their name implies they require certain tactical things to happen or support them in their task but when these things are working together they will mesh well with a fighting force. Sure they do not have the extra attack in close combat but having to play aggresively all of the time because my army is full of RAS is frustrating. If you're looking to play a load of RAS in a fluffy approach then Flesh Tearers are for you.

 

Just another thing to add. Given a flamer to attack hordes, a powerfist to hurt anything, and a lascannon to destroy armor the squad can literally take on anything with some degree of success. The point of mentioning this is that the squad through its multi-role and thus multi-threat approach has the potential to take some heat off your devestators and assault marines. Please take my opinions with a spoonful of salt.

[Brother Landrain]

I like a 10 man tactical squad...

PG and ML

Sgt with SB

In a Rhino with 2xSB

 

Combat squad and set a SP with them.. pillbox that when stationary can fire a lot at targets up to 24in away

[Tabgoi]

Personally I always use Tac Squads, I like the flexibility. But then again I have been playing my BAs for over a decade. When the first codex came out it explained that despite their special rules BAs feild their armies as a codex chapter does. So I used Devistator Squads despite the fact that they would occasionally charge foreward to engage enemies in close combat instead of shooting them. Lost the whole squad once when instead of shooting a Wave serpent filled with Howling Banshees they charged it. On the Eldar's turn they came out and wiped the floor with my Devistators. I still won the match, but a lot of people said I was stupid for feilding them. I played for the fluff though. I guess my opinion of Tac Squads is a bit skewd because of this, but I find them indespensible. Same with my RAS, lack of either tends to lead to defeat for me. But it is all about how you plan to play that determines if they will be effective for you. I use Tac Squads to lock down a flank while my RAS roll up an opposing flank using the Tac squads as a pivot point. If you are going for a balls to the wall assault the Tac Squads will be left behind an be almost useless. Assault squads are next to useless when left to sit on an objective, they need to be in movement. I would say have a few fights and see how your army responds, then make your descision.

[BlueThumb]

Thanks for all the replies! I think I'll go ahead and slap some red and black paint on those suckers.

[Whitefireinferno]

Ha welcome to the Forum BlueThumb always good to have another Flesh Tearer about :cuss I have Been contemplating running a Tac squad with my Tearers since I am taking the Fluffy approach with this army rather than the Razors everywhere approach . And Have Decided to try them out so yeah welcome and such.

[Wysten]

Tacticals seem a strange choice in this codex for a couple of main reasons.

 

The first is that the tactical squad is not really purposed for it's role in this codex, it is mainly deadly within 12 inches, but not that good in close combat due to only having a single attack and is unable to break out of Close Combat. That denys the tactical marine it's bolter much of the time.

 

Secondly, it is very rigid in it's deployment due to the fact that you need to take all 10 to carry any special or heavy weapons. This means that they are really have a bulky weapon to special weapon ratio. Really, if you want special weapons, Assualt Marines are better, Devs fire take heavy weapons cost effectively and scouts can be that objective squater, though a combat squad can solve this by having a small 5 man squad with special up front and a tactical squad on objective.

 

Thirdly, it's a question of what your army is focused on. Armies full of jetpacks will probably prefer more assualt squads and let Devs carry the heavy weapons, and able to throw themselves into the melee to support the Sanguard/Van/Honour guard. Mech meanwhile would probably like tacticals, since they can sit in the Rhino and act as a meltagun bunker for a bit and sit on a midfield objective.

 

So entirely, it depends what you want. Tactical marines don't suit Blood Angels dispostion, but the real question is, does it suit the situation? That is something only as individals can answer.

[Demoulius]

Tacticals seem a strange choice in this codex for a couple of main reasons.

 

The first is that the tactical squad is not really purposed for it's role in this codex, it is mainly deadly within 12 inches, but not that good in close combat due to only having a single attack and is unable to break out of Close Combat. That denys the tactical marine it's bolter much of the time.

 

Secondly, it is very rigid in it's deployment due to the fact that you need to take all 10 to carry any special or heavy weapons. This means that they are really have a bulky weapon to special weapon ratio. Really, if you want special weapons, Assualt Marines are better, Devs fire take heavy weapons cost effectively and scouts can be that objective squater, though a combat squad can solve this by having a small 5 man squad with special up front and a tactical squad on objective.

 

Thirdly, it's a question of what your army is focused on. Armies full of jetpacks will probably prefer more assualt squads and let Devs carry the heavy weapons, and able to throw themselves into the melee to support the Sanguard/Van/Honour guard. Mech meanwhile would probably like tacticals, since they can sit in the Rhino and act as a meltagun bunker for a bit and sit on a midfield objective.

 

So entirely, it depends what you want. Tactical marines don't suit Blood Angels dispostion, but the real question is, does it suit the situation? That is something only as individals can answer.

on your first point, the tacticals can fill any role that the player wants. mind you assault marines are better at assaulting the tacticals can do any other thing better. theyre cheaper then assault marines and more durable then scouts. youd be amazed on how much difference a powerfist can make in such a squad. the squad has a chance to be fearless and have furious charge in which case theyre still not a nice unit to be in contact with for your opponent since hell have to kill them to a man in order to break free from combat.

also renember that blood angels are still largely a codex chapter so the tacticals still have their place :)

 

on your second point: transports fix the mobility issue very well. devastators have expensive heavy weapons and unless your taking only 1 or 2 heavy weapons they will be losing them very rapidly, which would be a waste. also vehicles can offer mobile firepower as a far better option. while scout can squat on objectives as you put it they wont be doing much damage with their BS3 weaponry. when something gets in combat they die very rapidly as well with WS3 and a 4+ save.

 

on the third point. i couldnt agree more. they have their places, just not in every army ^_^ but would like to stress that EVEN in a jumppack army they can fulfill a role. just depends on the player if he prefers the cheaper scout squad or the more durable and dependable tactical squad :lol:

[Wysten]

Tacticals seem a strange choice in this codex for a couple of main reasons.

 

The first is that the tactical squad is not really purposed for it's role in this codex, it is mainly deadly within 12 inches, but not that good in close combat due to only having a single attack and is unable to break out of Close Combat. That denys the tactical marine it's bolter much of the time.

 

Secondly, it is very rigid in it's deployment due to the fact that you need to take all 10 to carry any special or heavy weapons. This means that they are really have a bulky weapon to special weapon ratio. Really, if you want special weapons, Assualt Marines are better, Devs fire take heavy weapons cost effectively and scouts can be that objective squater, though a combat squad can solve this by having a small 5 man squad with special up front and a tactical squad on objective.

 

Thirdly, it's a question of what your army is focused on. Armies full of jetpacks will probably prefer more assualt squads and let Devs carry the heavy weapons, and able to throw themselves into the melee to support the Sanguard/Van/Honour guard. Mech meanwhile would probably like tacticals, since they can sit in the Rhino and act as a meltagun bunker for a bit and sit on a midfield objective.

 

So entirely, it depends what you want. Tactical marines don't suit Blood Angels dispostion, but the real question is, does it suit the situation? That is something only as individals can answer.

on your first point, the tacticals can fill any role that the player wants. mind you assault marines are better at assaulting the tacticals can do any other thing better. theyre cheaper then assault marines and more durable then scouts. youd be amazed on how much difference a powerfist can make in such a squad. the squad has a chance to be fearless and have furious charge in which case theyre still not a nice unit to be in contact with for your opponent since hell have to kill them to a man in order to break free from combat.

also renember that blood angels are still largely a codex chapter so the tacticals still have their place :P

 

on your second point: transports fix the mobility issue very well. devastators have expensive heavy weapons and unless your taking only 1 or 2 heavy weapons they will be losing them very rapidly, which would be a waste. also vehicles can offer mobile firepower as a far better option. while scout can squat on objectives as you put it they wont be doing much damage with their BS3 weaponry. when something gets in combat they die very rapidly as well with WS3 and a 4+ save.

 

on the third point. i couldnt agree more. they have their places, just not in every army ;) but would like to stress that EVEN in a jumppack army they can fulfill a role. just depends on the player if he prefers the cheaper scout squad or the more durable and dependable tactical squad :)

 

Just so everyone is aware, I am offering the other opinon, so it's offering another option to the new guy. He knows tacticals are fluffy, just he's asking about the practical implications behind them. Personally I play Space Wolves, but I see them (Grey Hunters) as enhanced assualt marines rather then tactial marines. Lower leadership, give them a bolter and counter charge and you have a differently named assualt marine. XD

 

Difference is, if they are ever using their bolter and special weapon to maximun effectiveness, they are going to be assualted. This is not a problem in Codex Space Marines where they can break out of close combat if they need to. This means that their great advantages, the lone heavy weapon and bolters is very easily nagated and typically need another unit to bail them out. For assualt marines this is not a problem, since both special weapons are likely to have an effect on the formation infront of them. Two meltas is likely to kill marines, then assualting with 3 attacks is likely to pit combat heavily in the assualt squads favour, compared to a tactical marine attacking another melee heavy squads. They will always be using those extra attacks in compersion to a tactical using it's heavy weapon and bolter.

 

Transport fixes the issue somewhat, but again, the heavy weapon will only see use if the squad takes a passive role, the bolters will only see use if they deploy aggressively denying the use of the heavy weapon by getting out of the transport and are likely to be tangled as a weaker assualt squad. If your using tons of armour, that can be decent, but again, is it doing what a 5 assualt man squad in a razor can do? It would depend. Heavy weapons in general do cost a bit, but Devs are one of the best platforms for it, since they cannot be shaken, often can hide in cover, can be given feel no pain to increase their resistance, that and being cheaper then Space Marines can make them a very focused and dangerous heavy weapon platform. Being able to drop 4 missles onto something will either hurt, or surpress the target pretty badly and will always be in optimal range to fire.

 

The only real advantage of the tactical marine in that field is that it will probably be in range to use the Mult-Melta, is a mult melta better then two melta guns? Or more accurately, is a tactical squad better then any other option? To me, the tactical squad has mixed priorties since they can't use everything they get effectively. To fire their bolter, they have to get tangled, to fire their heavy weapons, they may not use their bolter. To be in melee combat is to deny the squad it's purpose. Thats why I don't believe tacticals are ideal outside codex marines.

 

Of course, the Scout squad is not an effective platform either, but their sole purpose is to score, unless I am missing something... Scouts are scoring right? If not, disreguard what I said about them. Heheh

 

 

Just as said, if they are working for you, use them, just I wanted to drop a outsider opinon to offer a little contrast. ^__^

[JamesI]

Tacticals seem a strange choice in this codex for a couple of main reasons.

 

The first is that the tactical squad is not really purposed for it's role in this codex, it is mainly deadly within 12 inches, but not that good in close combat due to only having a single attack and is unable to break out of Close Combat. That denys the tactical marine it's bolter much of the time.

 

Secondly, it is very rigid in it's deployment due to the fact that you need to take all 10 to carry any special or heavy weapons. This means that they are really have a bulky weapon to special weapon ratio. Really, if you want special weapons, Assualt Marines are better, Devs fire take heavy weapons cost effectively and scouts can be that objective squater, though a combat squad can solve this by having a small 5 man squad with special up front and a tactical squad on objective.

 

Thirdly, it's a question of what your army is focused on. Armies full of jetpacks will probably prefer more assualt squads and let Devs carry the heavy weapons, and able to throw themselves into the melee to support the Sanguard/Van/Honour guard. Mech meanwhile would probably like tacticals, since they can sit in the Rhino and act as a meltagun bunker for a bit and sit on a midfield objective.

 

So entirely, it depends what you want. Tactical marines don't suit Blood Angels dispostion, but the real question is, does it suit the situation? That is something only as individals can answer.

I agree with this post. I've entirely stopped using tacticals, if they didn't need 10 men for special/heavy weapons it would be different, but as it is I almost always want an assault squad over a tac.

[Demoulius]

Tacticals seem a strange choice in this codex for a couple of main reasons.

 

The first is that the tactical squad is not really purposed for it's role in this codex, it is mainly deadly within 12 inches, but not that good in close combat due to only having a single attack and is unable to break out of Close Combat. That denys the tactical marine it's bolter much of the time.

 

Secondly, it is very rigid in it's deployment due to the fact that you need to take all 10 to carry any special or heavy weapons. This means that they are really have a bulky weapon to special weapon ratio. Really, if you want special weapons, Assualt Marines are better, Devs fire take heavy weapons cost effectively and scouts can be that objective squater, though a combat squad can solve this by having a small 5 man squad with special up front and a tactical squad on objective.

 

Thirdly, it's a question of what your army is focused on. Armies full of jetpacks will probably prefer more assualt squads and let Devs carry the heavy weapons, and able to throw themselves into the melee to support the Sanguard/Van/Honour guard. Mech meanwhile would probably like tacticals, since they can sit in the Rhino and act as a meltagun bunker for a bit and sit on a midfield objective.

 

So entirely, it depends what you want. Tactical marines don't suit Blood Angels dispostion, but the real question is, does it suit the situation? That is something only as individals can answer.

on your first point, the tacticals can fill any role that the player wants. mind you assault marines are better at assaulting the tacticals can do any other thing better. theyre cheaper then assault marines and more durable then scouts. youd be amazed on how much difference a powerfist can make in such a squad. the squad has a chance to be fearless and have furious charge in which case theyre still not a nice unit to be in contact with for your opponent since hell have to kill them to a man in order to break free from combat.

also renember that blood angels are still largely a codex chapter so the tacticals still have their place :P

 

on your second point: transports fix the mobility issue very well. devastators have expensive heavy weapons and unless your taking only 1 or 2 heavy weapons they will be losing them very rapidly, which would be a waste. also vehicles can offer mobile firepower as a far better option. while scout can squat on objectives as you put it they wont be doing much damage with their BS3 weaponry. when something gets in combat they die very rapidly as well with WS3 and a 4+ save.

 

on the third point. i couldnt agree more. they have their places, just not in every army ;) but would like to stress that EVEN in a jumppack army they can fulfill a role. just depends on the player if he prefers the cheaper scout squad or the more durable and dependable tactical squad :P

 

Just so everyone is aware, I am offering the other opinon, so it's offering another option to the new guy. He knows tacticals are fluffy, just he's asking about the practical implications behind them. Personally I play Space Wolves, but I see them (Grey Hunters) as enhanced assualt marines rather then tactial marines. Lower leadership, give them a bolter and counter charge and you have a differently named assualt marine. XD

 

Difference is, if they are ever using their bolter and special weapon to maximun effectiveness, they are going to be assualted. This is not a problem in Codex Space Marines where they can break out of close combat if they need to. This means that their great advantages, the lone heavy weapon and bolters is very easily nagated and typically need another unit to bail them out. For assualt marines this is not a problem, since both special weapons are likely to have an effect on the formation infront of them. Two meltas is likely to kill marines, then assualting with 3 attacks is likely to pit combat heavily in the assualt squads favour, compared to a tactical marine attacking another melee heavy squads. They will always be using those extra attacks in compersion to a tactical using it's heavy weapon and bolter.

 

Transport fixes the issue somewhat, but again, the heavy weapon will only see use if the squad takes a passive role, the bolters will only see use if they deploy aggressively denying the use of the heavy weapon by getting out of the transport and are likely to be tangled as a weaker assualt squad. If your using tons of armour, that can be decent, but again, is it doing what a 5 assualt man squad in a razor can do? It would depend. Heavy weapons in general do cost a bit, but Devs are one of the best platforms for it, since they cannot be shaken, often can hide in cover, can be given feel no pain to increase their resistance, that and being cheaper then Space Marines can make them a very focused and dangerous heavy weapon platform. Being able to drop 4 missles onto something will either hurt, or surpress the target pretty badly and will always be in optimal range to fire.

 

The only real advantage of the tactical marine in that field is that it will probably be in range to use the Mult-Melta, is a mult melta better then two melta guns? Or more accurately, is a tactical squad better then any other option? To me, the tactical squad has mixed priorties since they can't use everything they get effectively. To fire their bolter, they have to get tangled, to fire their heavy weapons, they may not use their bolter. To be in melee combat is to deny the squad it's purpose. Thats why I don't believe tacticals are ideal outside codex marines.

 

Of course, the Scout squad is not an effective platform either, but their sole purpose is to score, unless I am missing something... Scouts are scoring right? If not, disreguard what I said about them. Heheh

 

 

Just as said, if they are working for you, use them, just I wanted to drop a outsider opinon to offer a little contrast. ^__^

wasent saying your opinion was invalid brother (incasse you thought i did :rolleyes: ) i was merely basing some points that countered their weaknesses. transports add mobility etc.

 

and yes priests increase durability alot. but that can be said true to any unit. for example scouts got move through cover, and IC's got it as well so they dont lose their speed when moving through cover. a close combat scout squad is something that i still have to try sometime. sure theyre easier hit back and have a weaker save. theyre also cheaper, can infilitrate etc etc. every advantage has a disadvantage in our army list...

 

heavy weapon can indeed not fire and move in a rhino but tbh one should never put him in one to begin with. we got combat squads for a reason and should take it to heart. not saying that its impossible to take one and use it but its not quite easy to do either. (trust me, ive tried)

 

problem with devastators as heavy weapon platforms is however that theyre contesting with just about every mobile ranged anti-tank weapon the blood angels can wield (mind you, just about)

 

point is, the OP wanted a non-fluff reason to take tacticals. i understand your voicing the other end of the spectrum but tbh any disadvantage they have can be worked around. if one adapts his playstyle so thats its not needed at all to work around their weakness however they really shine! although mind you such a list is generally abit more defensive. it would rely on ones playstyle to see if they want one or not.

[Wysten]

I know, I was just stating it as a little disclaimer. I like a good little chatter, just wanted to make sure I was understood. I am too streight forward for my own good sometimes. Hehehe

 

But understood, San Priests are one of those units that make blood angels what it is, very angry and heroic marines that shrug off wounds for the Emperior, their primarch and imperium. Scouts could work, but depends whether they are a troops choice. I imagine they would be a interesting compiment to conventional lists.

 

 

Just the issue with combat squading tacticals is that there will be a fair few guys incapable of doing much. The heavy guards will wounds for the single gun, though tough to shift. It works though definately, thats one thing thats carried over from Space Marines. Being able to cover twice as much ground with a single squad, though that charcteristic is shared with Assualt Marines. Both have definate advantages and I agree with the Rhino, I will probably never will use one with the mult-melta quite the same way, but in a mech list with Razors and other threats all round, I could imagine it getting ignoreds and blasting stuff with it from a central postion.

 

And again, contest with the other heavy weapons is true. It's the same for a lot of 5th edition codexes and thats not a bad thing, there are other things that you can take, just Devs is a fine heavy weapon platform as a direct compersion, as is Heavy Bolter Preds, Dreadnorts and so fourth. Every 5th edition codex has a fine choice of stuff you can use. As long as the design of the build or codex is through and through, they will serve you well. Just as long as your taking something that can do the job well.

 

 

To be honest, that may stem from the fact that I would paint up my guys as the angry marines and fly across the map on jetpacks and basically go mental. XD But I've always been kind of curious about the whys of tactical use. Thanks for the discussion. ^^