How to run Vanguards

[Grizzly Adams]

been thinkin about tryin some vanguard vets out in a DoA BA army, but having no experience with them, was unsure of how to build them out. how do y'all run them?

[JamesI]

There are a lot of varying opinions on this.

 

I personally prefer small units, kept rather cheap. When I've used large units they tend to kill one enemy then die to shooting. I avoid lots of storm shields, makes the cost go up very fast.

 

My current Vanguard is 6 guys, jump packs, sergeant has a pair of lightning claws, 1 has a thudner hammer, 1 has a power weapon, 1 has meltabombs.

 

Here is a BA specific Vanguard thread that might help you.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...203&hl=vets

[Grizzly Adams]

awesome, thanks for the link

[Kazehana]

I'd like to echo the sentiments that you should keep them cheap and light.

 

The standard, unupgraded squad you purchase puts out 20 attacks when they assault, 4 of which are Power Weapon attacks. That's not a lot, but for the relatively cheap cost that you get them for, it's not that bad. The idea is finding a balance between points cost and attacks. I've found that something as simple as putting an extra Power Weapon and body in the squad makes a world of difference against softer targets; other Marine squads, for instance, won't want to face down 24 attacks, with 8 being Power Weapon swings, and squishy things like Guard just don't want to face that many attacks period.

 

Against harder targets you could opt for a Relic Blade* on the Sarge and Thunder Hammer in place of the Power Weapon. Then you get some oomph at your initiative, and a huge swing at the end that'll slow your target down next turn, if not outright kill it. And the cost to upgrade them to this point is just 30 points compared to the "Light" Vanguard unit.

 

The issue remains that they don't want to combat dedicated assault squads without some form of fire support or backup assault unit - they're too expensive to field in large numbers, meaning a larger squad meant to work in close combat can scare them unless you shoot it up a bit first.

 

I also feel that Jump Packs are not worth the price unless you intend to Heroic Intervention them just about every game.

 

A particularly effective combo I've tried recently includes tossing Pedro Kantor into the squad; he brings a Power Fist, meaning you don't have to buy that pricey glove for them, gives them all an extra attack as well as his own, as well as bringing an 4++, and his Assault 4 gun to soften targets.

 

* The Relic Blade is ALWAYS worth considering. They're the only non-HQ option that can carry it, and it's a very handy weapon.

[bladeofdeath3]

Relic blade is always a good choice in vanguard squads. It gives you the option to take on higher toughness creatures and actually have a chance to wound them. In normal games, I don't bother with any major shooting with them, it isn't their point. This means no plasma pistols, as the overheat can easily wipe out a power weapon. I run them in a 6 strong unit, sarge relic blade and all power weapons. I throw them in a razorback and watch them ride up. I normally don't use them unless its a larger point game (1850+).

[Reinholt]

Briefly, as I just noticed this now:

 

1 - I feel having one Storm Shield in the unit is excellent, and more than that gets overpriced quickly. You want one guy to be the bullet catcher for stray power weapons / fists / lascannons / meltas, etc, but more than that is often overkill, as if your Vanguard get exposed to withering counter-fire, they are going to die horribly.

 

2 - I like one big weapon to make sure you have something to smack around a dreadnought / monstrous creature / independent character vulnerable to instant death. To that end, while I like the relic blade, I like a power fist or thunder hammer more (S8 is often instant death to things without eternal warrior), and a meltabomb or two is not necessarily a bad idea.

 

3 - Beyond that, I agree with keeping them cheap and having a body or two as vanilla, reasonably priced bullet catchers.

 

So the two ways I have seen Vanguard used effectively for standard marines:

 

A reasonably sized squad in a Land Raider, as you can keep the Vanguard themselves cheap; often this is part of a multi-raider strategy, as on its own that is a giant 'shoot me' label on the front of the tank.

 

With the jump packs, but usually in an army with locator beacons or something similar so that you can use heroic intervention effectively in virtually every single game, as that is the real value of the jump packs.