Justin2008 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hey all, after reading through the codex again, i wanted to knwo your views on captains. Obviously the question is, why would you take a captain when for the same points you can get a lib or reclusairch (obviously 30 pts more, but if you give the captain a power weapon etc, adds up) Also if you had a tooled out captain for over 150 pts, why not just pick gabreil seth or captain tycho?? Your thoughts :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 only reason id run a captain is for fluff. they are one of the worst units in the dex for the points and compared to what they are compeating against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Aye, Labiarns and Chapelins do have functions beyond close combat and benfit from extra mobility. Captains here don't really have a purpose, since unlike Codex Marines they can't unlock bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 and ours cant have artificer armour, relicblades, or even blade encarmines.... an angelus boltgun would also have made a nice option as we dont got astartes grenade launchersetc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 we got shafted with the captain option IMHO :) lack of no AA makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.... of all the chapter around youd figure our captains would have it.... lack of any non-generic close combat whatsoever also limits them to be "expensive" sargeants ;) tbh a VV sargeant can have a blade encarmine, why wouldnt a captain be able to have one :P complete lack of relic blades also strikes me as odd.....i cant really see it beeing very imbalanced if we would be able to have it....sure we can have furious charge but generally we pay for it anyway (IC's can only get it from SP's) as captains stand atm, they have nothing going for them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin2008 Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 I think after reading these, thats enough said lmao. Captains are pureply for fluff games then in most cases. What about apocalypse matches then, would you be more tempted to take 1 or 2 ? To act like better more wound sergeants for some squads?? In my eyes id only take the 5-6 captains i got once i used my 2 librarians, 3 reclusiarchs and possibly other chaplians at reclusiarchs first. But what about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I imagine, also, that many people would picked a named Character also, where they weren't using a Librarian or Chaplain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ive made all the company captains for my storm angels. the only way most of tem could see the table would be due to using the masters of the chapter stratagem with dante and 3 of my jumpers and my biker captain. but thats apoc and it dosnt really matter how crap they are....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Why would anyone want a Glaive Encarmine? Unless my math is off a single Ligtning claw is better most of the time. GE rerolls one to-hit die, the LC rerolls all to-wound dice. Neither weapon profits from pistols, but at least the LC can be combined with another LC for the extra attack. Unlike most two-handed weapons the GE does not augment the weilder's strength. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I tried to use a captain when our codex came out. Ran him with jump pack and a pair of claws. He was pretty good, hurt things in combat. But he failed when compared to a similar costed Reclusiarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 the glave looks cool, and works better than a powersword when equiped with stormsheild etc. of course lightening claws are better, but comparing the asthetics the glaves look better and most ba players have 1 or 2 somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Dual LC TDA captain is about the only one I'd consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsolom Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I used to take Captains in the PDF era for smaller games, kitted out like JamesI captain mainly for fluff reasons but most importantly for their army wide LD10 Rites of battle rule. Granted their WS went up to 6 in the new codex but so did the cost of the JP by 5pts :lol: but they took away RoB . They are pretty much useless now :D Edit; spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Why would anyone want a Glaive Encarmine? Unless my math is off a single Ligtning claw is better most of the time. GE rerolls one to-hit die, the LC rerolls all to-wound dice. Neither weapon profits from pistols, but at least the LC can be combined with another LC for the extra attack. Unlike most two-handed weapons the GE does not augment the weilder's strength. Am I missing something? cant talk for everyone here but im upset we lack the option at all! for a chapter who is famous for having good artificers and good craftsmen (aside from the salamanders) we got prettty little to show for it aside from some special characters who have AA ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malatox Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I guess I would only take one in a fluff campaign or in an Apoc match for the Battle Company sheet... Who knows maybe some people use them to great effectiveness Because we think so little of them :L?! Haha Malatox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 *steps onto the boat* I have a few captains but they rarely see combat. Squad benefits - none. Army wide benefits - none. Price efficiency - none. I take a librarian unless I'm fielding death company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lords2001 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I find them most useful when being stacked with other units - in TDA with a libby for unleash rage or shield etc or a chaplain etc all attached to Terminators. Otherwise for 100 points, take the librarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Why would anyone want a Glaive Encarmine? Unless my math is off a single Ligtning claw is better most of the time. GE rerolls one to-hit die, the LC rerolls all to-wound dice. Neither weapon profits from pistols, but at least the LC can be combined with another LC for the extra attack. Unlike most two-handed weapons the GE does not augment the weilder's strength. Am I missing something? cant talk for everyone here but im upset we lack the option at all! for a chapter who is famous for having good artificers and good craftsmen (aside from the salamanders) we got prettty little to show for it aside from some special characters who have AA :lol: Maybe I'm just being cynical, but I suspect if the Captain was able to take a glaive encarmine, people would complain about how stupid it would be. As it is, people are complaining that they can't take a useless weapon. Since it doesn't add any strength, taking a glaive when you could take a normal power weapon is actually penalizing yourself out of an extra attack. It doesn't add anything at all over a Lightning Claw either. There's no point in taking a glaive on a captain even if you could. As for artificer armor... it's just one point of armor. A captain has a 3+/4+ as it is, that's pretty survivable. I prefer Librarians myself, but it pains me that a Libby has no invulnerable save. So that's one nice thing the Captain brings with him. And with all the complaining, I don't see how being able to bump a Captain up from a 3+/4+ to a 2+/4+ without TDA would make much of a difference. And if you're taking Terminators, why not take TDA on the Captain too? In which case, the artificer armor doesn't matter either. I understand the appeal of AA though. It'd be nice to get that protection and still have a jump pack. But it's not so great a difference that it's worth lamenting over. There's little substantive difference between our Captains and other Captains. Our Guilliman-loving brothers have some toys we don't in this section of the Codex, but we have some toys they don't in others. What it ultimately comes down to is that our Librarians and Reclusiarchs are so good. Our Captains aren't bad, they just don't have the abilities those other HQs do. But what's wrong with taking a twin lightning-claw or a TH/SS addition to your Sanguard? As for me, Librarians are my favorite, but that's just because I like the striking, single blue model standing in the sea of red. I've modeled a Captain just for the joy of modeling him, and he's accompanied in Apocalypse, or in small-game lists where I needed combat over magic. So I say, if you like the idea of a Captain, take a Captain. There are other options to fill out those other abilities in your army: Furioso Librarians and Elite Chaplains. And really: with how great our other HQ options are, how big of a difference would artificer armor make? If I'm missing something, tell me; but I think even with artificer armor we'd still be going for the bonuses Dante and Mephy can bring us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 If you could have loaded them up with all the wargear available to the different units in the dex then they would have been more attractive. A relic blade. Artificer Armour. A death mask. An angelus boltgun. That sort of stuff.... As they stand, they are just a poor mans Reclusiarch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think just keeping the "Rites of Battle" rule (and this goes for regular marines as well) would have made the captain a far more attractive choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Part of it must be the modelling possibilities of captains. With the DC, SG and SM commander packs you can make some lovely and unique models while chaplains and librarians are tied very strongly to the GW metal figures. While thinking about this, I went back to the codex and White Dwarf. It seems to me these show the decision not to give the captains artificer armour and glaives encarmine came at a very late stage. The captain model in the codex wears exactly the Torso armour and helmet crest used in the wargear section to signify 'Artificer Armour', and WD 364 includes captains in similar armour and one holding a glaive encarmine. That made me initially suspect a mistake in the codex proofing. But crunching the numbers it looks like a captain with artificer armour and glaive encarmine (and rites of battle) is essentially a Captain Tycho. The costs would likely have been very similar leading us to the same situation we had in the last codex with Jump-packed Chaplain being only a few points less than Lemartes. For practical purposes I supose this means make your own tooled up Captain as a 'counts as' Tycho'. You loose the jump-pack and bike possibilities, which is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Part of it must be the modelling possibilities of captains. With the DC, SG and SM commander packs you can make some lovely and unique models while chaplains and librarians are tied very strongly to the GW metal figures. While thinking about this, I went back to the codex and White Dwarf. It seems to me these show the decision not to give the captains artificer armour and glaives encarmine came at a very late stage. The captain model in the codex wears exactly the Torso armour and helmet crest used in the wargear section to signify 'Artificer Armour', and WD 364 includes captains in similar armour and one holding a glaive encarmine. That made me initially suspect a mistake in the codex proofing. But crunching the numbers it looks like a captain with artificer armour and glaive encarmine (and rites of battle) is essentially a Captain Tycho. The costs would likely have been very similar leading us to the same situation we had in the last codex with Jump-packed Chaplain being only a few points less than Lemartes. For practical purposes I supose this means make your own tooled up Captain as a 'counts as' Tycho'. You loose the jump-pack and bike possibilities, which is sad. It's a good point actualy, Tycho is the only captain that brings anything to the table as he gets RoB. If I ever get tired of wings I might do a regular BA army and convert a counts as Tycho as I'm not keen on the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I love my Dual Clawed JP Captain! :angry: I ran him in a ASM squad with a Dual Clawed sgt and a Chaplain once and ... WOw!!! The pain they unleashed was phenomenal. I wouldn't recommend fielding him on his own, but combined with other supporting Characters such as Libs or Chaplains, IMHO he is our cheapest flesh grinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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