Cyrox Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I have no problem woth Loken coming back - the end of Galaxy In Flames was like a cliffhanger to a TV show - it was superb and it seemed fairly obvious (to me anyway) that Loken wasn't dead, and that Rylanor was sent off to guard a shuttle for a good reason Bring on the stories I say :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2615721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I thought it was pretty clear from the text that Loken was dead, and didn't really get the 'somehow he might have survived' vibe until I read the comment from Ben Counter that he wasn't really meant to kill him quite that dead. Was a pretty sad end for a great character (in a good way if you take my drift). That said, any 'resurrection' better be very well done otherwise it would definitely cheapen the character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2615729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
douchie Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I just can't see loken coming back to full health after the mauling he took and the fall. At least as a dreadnought he dosent come back all fine and dandy. I just can't see loken coming back to full health after the mauling he took and the fall. At least as a dreadnought he dosent come back all fine and dandy. If he was human then yes I'd agree, but the guy is an astartes. his bones fuse in hours his blood clots in seconds. He was beaten & buried by a building, I don't think is so unbelieveble that he survived. The traitors leave Istavaan 3 after the bombing. I can see the other survivors coming out form the underground shelter, survey the ruins start to bury their dead. A vox signal crackes to life, a faint whisper. Vipus sees Loken's vox signature & starts off to find him. maybe Raynor digs him out. It's not a million miles form being very plausable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2615757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techmarine Andreas Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I am certain that there will be survivors from Isstvan III show up again. As stated Astartes are so damn hard to actually kill that it only makes sense. Will Loken be amongst tham? I for one hope so and look forward to how absolutely p!ssed he is going to be. As to hwo they got off or return to th eHH sotries, I have a feeling Garro could be involved as he rounds up Astartes to fulfill whatever misions Malcador has in mind. But also remember that Dorn dispatched a contigent of Fists to teh Isstvan system at the end of Flight of the Eisenstien (Or have I imagined that) Have started the sereious from the start again to help refresh my memeory but just finisehed false gods so got a long way to go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2616110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hengist Ironfang Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Didnt Ancient Rylanor the EC venerable dread retreat to guard the back door of some underground shelter? If so he could still be about somewhere on Istvaan, only going from memory but dont remember him getting destroyed at all, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2616331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Didnt Ancient Rylanor the EC venerable dread retreat to guard the back door of some underground shelter? If so he could still be about somewhere on Istvaan, only going from memory but dont remember him getting destroyed at all, In Fulgrim it's revealed the last time he was seen was guarding a door to an underground bunker or something like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2616390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
douchie Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 But also remember that Dorn dispatched a contigent of Fists to teh Isstvan system at the end of Flight of the Eisenstien (Or have I imagined that) Have started the sereious from the start again to help refresh my memeory but just finisehed false gods so got a long way to go. Yes, that's in FotE & is also mentioned in HH visions of Heresy books. I have a feeling that Garro will round up all the loyal Astartes from the traitor legions & others he see's as worthy. Loken will be pissed! I just hope that this new band have something to do with the Vengeful Spirit's sheilds dropping during the seige of Terra. That would be poetic justice. Also having loken see, Horus strike down the emperor of terra would be a good ending, as that's how the series started. For that reason loken has to be alive Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2617052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Didnt Ancient Rylanor the EC venerable dread retreat to guard the back door of some underground shelter? If so he could still be about somewhere on Istvaan, only going from memory but dont remember him getting destroyed at all, In Fulgrim it's revealed the last time he was seen was guarding a door to an underground bunker or something like that. But he died during the virus bombing of the world, due to a crack in his armour.. as I recall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2617060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
douchie Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 But he died during the virus bombing of the world, due to a crack in his armour as I recall. No That was a Deathguard dreadnaught, not Raynor. Raynor was described as watching the fire storm after the virus- bombing in Galaxy in flames & then again in Fulgrum as guarding an underground bunker Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2617066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Decimus Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Just a future plot thought with a big "what if?" attached to it... Say Loken was rescued by Rylanor, brought to the underground bunker to die amongst his brothers but instead of dying, his contempt for Abaddon and Aximand spurred him to recover from his injuries. Knowing that he couldnt change the sway of the rebellion he could at least take his revenge on the remaining mournival members... But knowing how well protected they'd be he'd need to wait for just the right oppertunity. With the battle for Terra in full sway, using the spacecraft found on Istvaan Loken along with Rylanor and the few remaining survivors manage to stay just out of the sensor range of the Vengefull Spirit. When Horus orders the shields to be lowered, Loken and the others also teleport aboard and with Loken knowing the ship better than anyone else. With all the attention being on the Emperor/Sanguinius/Dorn's parties, Loken and co make their way around the ships corridors fighting daemons and traitors until they confront Aximand who is lamenting on his actions at Istvaan and his slaying of Tarik. Loken and Little Horus fight and Aximand is killed by Loken, who then decides to go look for Abaddon. At this point elsewhere on the ship Horus is killed by the Emperor and Abaddon orders the retreat, Loken and his friends fight their way to the drop pods, one by one dying at the hands of the traitors until it is only Rylanor and Loken remain. Rylanor bravely sacrifices himself to allow Loken to escape in a drop pod which crashes very badly just outside the Imperial palace, the crash knocks our hero unconscious and is found later by Iacton and Garro. His injuries quite severe this time means that Loken is placed in stasis in a secret part of the Emperors Palace waiting for the time that Abaddon is successfull in invading the Emperors palace. Here comes the big "what if?"... When the end time does eventually come where Abaddon is standing in the great hall ready to finish the Emperor for good what if it is this moment that Loken re-emerges from the shadows and fights Abaddon to the death in front of the Emperor and after the most clymatic battle ever seen Loken gets the upper hand and actually kills Abaddon. His fate after this point I havent decided yet but with his vengefull ambition spent it seems fitting that he should finally be allowed to rest. Okay so its a little fetched and has a few kinks but it explains why there is no mention of Aximand post-heresy, it gives an extra spin on the action aboard the vengefull Spirit, it gives reason to why he hasnt died off between 30K and 40K and can anyone honestly say that during a true time of ending there would be a more fitting opponent to Abaddon than a re-emerging and very pi**ed off Loken? Thats how I would do it anyway, what do you all think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 But also remember that Dorn dispatched a contigent of Fists to teh Isstvan system at the end of Flight of the Eisenstien (Or have I imagined that) Have started the sereious from the start again to help refresh my memeory but just finisehed false gods so got a long way to go. Yes, that's in FotE & is also mentioned in HH visions of Heresy books. I have a feeling that Garro will round up all the loyal Astartes from the traitor legions & others he see's as worthy. Loken will be pissed! I just hope that this new band have something to do with the Vengeful Spirit's sheilds dropping during the seige of Terra. That would be poetic justice. Also having loken see, Horus strike down the emperor of terra would be a good ending, as that's how the series started. For that reason loken has to be alive When Loken joined the Mournival, he had some visions of the future. He was thinking of his own death but had trouble finding it. (this is one reason why i think Loken lives past the end of the HH ...) Instead of finding his death he finds what i think are his near death experiences. One on Istvaan III, the other on board the Vengeful spirit fighting next to the Emperor. In the Later he dose not see Horus and thinks that he must be near. He can't, at this time understand why Horus would not be fighting with him..... I agree that the end of the HH series will be Loken watching Horus strike down the Emperor. Loken will live on to tell the tale just like he did in the beginning of Horus Rising. I think Loken's name will be on the List given to Dorn by Malcador. Names of Librarians some of who like Loken, Garro, Taritz, will have had their powers suppressed. Others on the list like the Smerf in Oath of Moment, will have suppressed their own powers. And some like Zahariel El'Zurias will have ignored the orders of the Council of Nikaea all together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurgling6688 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 What if Loken is the guy who gives his life to save the Emp from Horus. The one who use to be a guardsmen, then a custodes. I mean, they already changed it, why not again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 No! How would I be able to explain my whole guardsman in disguise to get a look at the Emperor theory then? I actually think they might make him the reason the Void Shields are lowered. Sabotage is an art form, after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 No! How would I be able to explain my whole guardsman in disguise to get a look at the Emperor theory then? I actually think they might make him the reason the Void Shields are lowered. Sabotage is an art form, after all. After GiF came out my mate said that Little Horus would be the one to lower the fields because of the regret he shows after killing Torgaddon. Personally I like the idea of Little Horus doing it, it shows that there is coming back (kinda) and it spreads the good deeds to other characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Wasn't thid thread done already? I mean were adding dreadnought on top of it but it was basically survivors or no on istavaan III? And there isn't enough evidence either way just abnetts loken coment made in passing reference. And that might actually havee just been for giggels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Listen to the audiobooks. Loken comes back and joins Garro. Garro is the 1st GreyKnight/Inquisitor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Dan has mentioned this twice now as far as I've seen. The first time he pretty much said he's not dead and the second time was more vague but in a way more concrete that the first, with any vagueness probably to try keep BL happy after last time. And then there is ADB going very blatently Loken is still alive, he is not dead. People need to stop living in denial and face that fact that he is still alive despite how much you seemingly don't like the idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 My whole real point is this thread about Loken living has been done before. Second some authors say he is alive but he isn't in any of the books I've read yet. feel free to spoil it for me if he is alive in a book. And lets remember the Authors could be just popping these out there to bolster sales and keep interest I mean this is basically this is the second is Loken alive thread so even if thats all it is its working. And I hate the Idea because in the end if they live through all that apparently the marines in 40k somehow lost all there badass and now fight worse then my grandmother with all the crap they let go on in the imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 My whole real point is this thread about Loken living has been done before. Second some authors say he is alive but he isn't in any of the books I've read yet. feel free to spoil it for me if he is alive in a book. And lets remember the Authors could be just popping these out there to bolster sales and keep interest I mean this is basically this is the second is Loken alive thread so even if thats all it is its working. And I hate the Idea because in the end if they live through all that apparently the marines in 40k somehow lost all there badass and now fight worse then my grandmother with all the crap they let go on in the imperium. Jesus. Loken is alive. It's not marketing, or anything like that. He's alive. It's not because he's a popular character; it's not to please the fanbase, or to annoy them. It's not to "bolster sales" (which makes no sense, anyway - why say a character is alive when he has nothing to do with all the books being released at the moment). It's not me and Dan making cracks to tease. Loken is alive. Here is the deal, for the 892nd time: Loken was never supposed to be dead. Dan never intended him to be dead, because he's one of the lynchpins in the series. The public statements for the last year (and more) where Dan and others have been saying he's alive and that he was never supposed to be dead aren't bizarre lies. He's alive, and was never supposed to be dead. On a more unofficial note, at my very first Horus Heresy meeting, I said that it looked far too conclusive - that Loken coming back was cool as hell, but would seem unrealistic, because of the way his last scene had been written. Surviving those odds looked unrealistic. However, the fact is that he's alive. Dan never wanted him dead, and that's all there is to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I bloody knew it. I knew he was alive. There was no hint for me anyway, that he had actually died - the whole "he knew nothing more" could relate just as easily to passing out/comatose. Thanks A D-B. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Actually everything I heard from authors before your statement could have been just teaser remarks. Now well I guess Power Armour in a marine book big suprise. Though the explanation will have to be very badass to make it just not believable. instead of not possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2618959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANCIENT FALOR Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 That's why he comes back a dreadnought. Its just the how they found him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2619025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeMeister Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 If I remember correctly, from "Fulgrim" Tarvitz sent Ancient Rylanor to guard an underground hangar and nobody knows what happened to Rylanor (presumed KIA - hang on .. can Dreads be KIA? :unsure: ). So maybe the Loyalist survivors escaped this way... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2619124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 If I remember correctly, from "Fulgrim" Tarvitz sent Ancient Rylanor to guard an underground hangar and nobody knows what happened to Rylanor (presumed KIA - hang on .. can Dreads be KIA? :unsure: ). Ask Raguel the Sufferer. :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2619145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I hope Tarik's head gets re-attached. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219120-if-loken-came-back-as-a-dreadnought/page/2/#findComment-2619159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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