Japanese themed chapter?

[IronFather84]

I guess the first question that should be asked is there one already in existance? I am not aware of one. I know that the White Scars is an asian themed army but more specifically they are based loosely on the Mongols. I know also that the Mantis Warriors were speculated to have beeb made from the White Scars geneseed because they were created to relieve the White Scars in their sector, but i am not sure if they were supposed to be modeled after the Mongols as well, but from what i read in the Deathwatch novels i don't think they were and they seem to be the closest to what i am asking for (but that is only my opinion). I know that my request may seem kinda cliche but i just would like to try something other then the traditional greek/roman themed armies that GW is fond of. One thing that i think that i would like to try in creating this army would be to make them from the Iron Hands geneseed. I know that i will recieve alot of negative feed back for having suggested that but there it is. The IH are not asian but perhaps the home world of my Chapter would be. I would also like to include the Clan system of the IH, each clan would be independant like the clans of the IH and i would stick with the theme of limited terminater suits etc. What i want to try to do is use the basis of the Japanese Samurai Bushido for my chapter. My captains would be daimyos, space marines power weapons would be katanas, my scouts would be ashigaru and their combat knives would be wakizashis, things like that. Let me be the first to say i don't know what the hell i am talking about and i am no expert on feudal Japan or their culture i am just trying to make a decent and hopefully orginianl army. I would love yo hear other peoples feed back on this. The only other thing i could think of is perhaps a feudal middle eastern them army. thanks for reading and your feedback.

[Magnus Thane]

For a Japanese chapter I'd go for a Black Templars armybook.

Initiates = Ashigaru. Regular marines = Bushi/Samurai

The Captain = Daimyo.

The Grand Master of your chapter = Shogun.

The Emperor's Champion is a 'Divine Sentai' or something.

[Khiros]

In answer to your first question, yes. There are a couple people who have done/are doing/are in the process of making a Japanese/Asian inspired army. And my first piece of advice is this: If you want to do a Japanese-themed Iron Hands successor, then go for it. Have fun with it. Perhaps even try your hand at an Index Astartes article for them. :lol: Good luck and Welcome to the B&C.

[IronFather84]

@ Magnus Thane, i have actually been play testing my Iron Hands army (as most of it is painted) outof the Space Wolves dex, with much criticism i might add. I take Bjorne as my "Clan leader" for my HQ choice. I also take wolf guard so i can make the sergeants of my squads in terminator armor, with lots of grey hunter squads, with razor backs, a long fang squad, and a tech marine. I hear that it's kind of a cheesed list but i am not trying to power guy, i just tried to make a fluff list. I don't have the BT codex but i will definately look into it.

 

@ Kiros first off thanks for the welcome i am still relatively new but i am trying to learn my way around and expand as a player. I just thought that a iron hands asian themed successor would just be something unique and hopefully never been done. It's hard to be original these days in 40k if you ask me.

 

I haven't put too much thought into that army itself. But i was thinking the Jade Gorgons would be a decent name. Medusa being a gorgon and all and i think doing a green army might be fun. My original plan was Sons of Medusa but have thus far been unable to find any definitive fluff. Maybe snot green with gold or yellow or somehting? I have painted a few squads in the Iron Hands colors but the black on black grew stagnant very fast.

[*Furyou Miko]

Jade Gorgons sounds good. Jade automatically gives anything an 'east asian' feel.

 

Space Wolves are a good option - you've got characterful 'Samurai' in the Wolf Guard and HQs. A Rune Priest could be a Shukenja, Wu Jen, or even Jono (ninja priest).

 

Iron Priests are, of course, foreign devils bringing their ingenious bushido-killers in! Or just another kind of Shukenja, since the Machine Spirit thing is very animistic (like Shinto).

 

You would have to use a proportionately high number of Blood Claws, I think, or possibly even Allied Guard, for Ashigaru. Give them lots of spears, though.

 

Remember: When asked whether he'd rather have a Katana or a Broadsword, most Samurai would answer: A Yari (spear).

 

(Wolf Scouts: Ninjas!)

 

I believe Frostblades are one-handed, so modelling them as Nagemaki is probably out - but then, they are marines. A claymore for a normal person is a broadsword for a Space Marine.

 

Regarding the Iron Hands: Straightforward, honour-based clan structure? Land Raider charges against Anti-tank guns? Obsessed with becoming 'the strongest'? Mass failure-based executions? Sounds perfect. Just don't go crazy with the whole 'cyborg ninja' thing, because that has been over-done.

[NightrawenII]

*Waits in silence for the day, when someone made a Japanese-themed Chapter without obvious rip-offs like samurai, ashigaru, ninja's and katana's.*

 

 

..... after 50 years of patient waiting, NightrawenII died with his wish unfulfilled. :mellow:

[Heru]

*Waits in silence for the day, when someone made a Japanese-themed Chapter without obvious rip-offs like samurai, ashigaru, ninja's and katana's.*

 

 

..... after 50 years of patient waiting, NightrawenII died with his wish unfulfilled. :D

I have a Chapter that only uses Japanese names and symbols for their Clans, and nothing else (no katanas, no samurai and no bushido). Does that count?

[Blacklight]

There was someone on here when I first started reading the Liber that was working on a Japanese themed chapter. His had women in it, despite the fact only males can be marines, and used non-40k models, much to the chagrin on those on the Liber, and it wound up sparking a lot of heated debate if I remember right. If I can find the link to it I'll post it, it should only be a page or two down in the list of threads.

[IronFather84]

Well to be honest putting any thing ninja didn't really cross my mind given the fact that they were the anti-samurai. Plus i think the ninja thing is a little played out. I want some of these features to be in army with out going too over the top. As for throwing in the katanas i would think that doing a bushiso based theme you would have to have them in there. i mean to a samurai the daisho what as much spiritual as it was a weapon and was highly revered not unlike power weapons are to the space marines, or in this case SW frost weapons etc. also in feudal japanese armies not every one was a samurai. although i would like the idea of one carrying a kanobo because that was the weaon on the boogy man in that culture but i think that is too far removed from what i am trying to do. i think i would like my librarian to carry a yari (spear). So i think that other then my main ICs and maybe a little in the SGTs my marine troops would have very little sculting/modeling depicting them as being of asian influence. I want to have the influence of the asian culture but let's face it they are still space marins so i am sure that most of the theme will be limited to iconography. As for the SW codex counts as type army it is the most fitting. they are honor/glory based as is what i want in this army. they are a little more strait forward and animalistic as opposed to cultured dueling type society that i am thinking of, but that is fluff and i don't think that that translates too much into gameplay. Thanks again for reading and all your feedback.

[Stazbumpa]

*Waits in silence for the day, when someone made a Japanese-themed Chapter without obvious rip-offs like samurai, ashigaru, ninja's and katana's.*

 

 

..... after 50 years of patient waiting, NightrawenII died with his wish unfulfilled. ^_^

 

I'll break out the paddles and resurrect you, my White Tigers managed to avoid anything overtly Japanese named apart from the home world. It's just a shame the IA wasn't very good.

Anyway, just adding my tuppence to the proceedings:

 

Well to be honest putting any thing ninja didn't really cross my mind given the fact that they were the anti-samurai

 

Not according to the evidence they weren't. The modern ninja image is a Hollywoodism of Japanese history, for a start they were not anti-samurai because for the most part they were samurai. Think along the lines of what special forces are to the regular army, they do a particular job but they are still soldiers. The ninja were originally castle breakers, they dressed up as the enemy and stole into castles to start fires and open the gates from the inside. By the way, the ninja-to never existed.

 

<quote>also in feudal japanese armies not every one was a samurai.</quote>

 

This is true in part, there was a distinction between samurai and bushi (fighting man), samurai originally being the name of the emperors palace guards from around 900AD onwards. I think it was after the civil war period (1600) that bushi and samurai came to mean the same thing and everyone carrying swords was samurai by default.

 

I'm going for a lie down after my historical geek out, apologies for any trauma I have caused. I'm also trying to make my "samurai" Chapter work, Japanese history is a pet subject of mine so if you want any info then please feel free to PM me or something. Fitting your army into the Iron Hands framework sounds very interesting B)

[NightrawenII]

Well to be honest putting any thing ninja didn't really cross my mind given the fact that they were the anti-samurai

 

Not according to the evidence they weren't. The modern ninja image is a Hollywoodism of Japanese history, for a start they were not anti-samurai because for the most part they were samurai. Think along the lines of what special forces are to the regular army, they do a particular job but they are still soldiers. The ninja were originally castle breakers, they dressed up as the enemy and stole into castles to start fires and open the gates from the inside. By the way, the ninja-to never existed.

Ahem, but no.

Ninja's were of the commoner-caste, not the warrior-caste. Another thing is that the ninja's code was exact opposite of the Bushido, the warrior-code of samurai.

 

All of this somewhat disqualified them from being the samurai.

 

Btw, what is "ninja-to"?

 

<quote>also in feudal japanese armies not every one was a samurai.</quote>

 

This is true in part, there was a distinction between samurai and bushi (fighting man), samurai originally being the name of the emperors palace guards from around 900AD onwards. I think it was after the civil war period (1600) that bushi and samurai came to mean the same thing and everyone carrying swords was samurai by default.

#A He is talking about Ashigaru, a militia made of the peasants.

#B Errm, weren't the first true dji zamurai, a gentry made from off-shots of Imperial family and court aristocracy (Fujiwara)?

#C You meant Hideyoshi's "Hunt on the swords"? Well, as I understand that decree, it codified the difference between the peasantry and warriors. However, there was still difference between the samurai and ashigaru.

[IronFather84]

LOL well let me apologize to any amatuer historians out there. As i previously stated i am no expert on the Japanese or samurai culture. I just thought doing this would add a nice flavor to an army. I don't think there is much originality left to be found in Warhammer 40k verse, especailly since i came into in only in the last few years. I just think that the traditional GW roman/greek army theme grew kind of stagnant and wanted to bring a differant flavor to my army. Obviously this would not be a true bushido/samurai space marine army and no where near historically accurate. Not to mention this is the year 40,000 and Japan let alone it's culture is long forgotten. i just want to borrow enough of the aspect to make my army my own and just a little bit differant from everyone else. As for the ninja i jus think are a little played out in general (hollywoodism, games, movie, and yes even 40k) and have no love for them at all.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

If you want to use this kind of theme then you need to do some research; it's no good thinking "Wow, that's really cool.. I'm going to use that.." because on this website there are a scary number of people who know alot about a scary number of subjects.

[IronFather84]

I am not completely ignorant to the subject i merely said i am not an expert. i have done research on the subject and the cultrure. I have put thought into how i want to incorporate this into my army. As stated in my previous post. I chose this because i think that the bushido philosophy would translate well to the space marine ideology and it's that not far removed from some of the actual cannon chapters reated by GW themselves, not just because i think it's cool or i seen it on tv.

[Apothete]

Rather than using titles and names, why not look at what it is that makes the idea of incorporating something as big as "Japan" as a concept and see where you could take those things to be used in more subtle ways?

 

Starting with using Bushido as your foundation is a good beginning, but what is it specifically about the idea that you want your Chapter to involve? How would using a philosophy like that influence their development? Does it come from the homeworld they recruit from or is it stemming from the guidance of the training cadre that comes to raise the first aspirants? How does it influence the way that they fight? Does it pull them away from the Codex Astartes or have they found a way to maintain their philosophy while also staying in line with what's typically expected of Marines?

 

These are the kinds of questions to be answering as you write. You can find more detailed information and suggestions in the Guide to DIYing (linked in my signature), the Octaguide (easily found by searching), and the other resources in my signature.

[IronFather84]

Thanks Apothete actually i think you are pretty spot on. These are alot of the same question i have been asking myself in the creation of this chapter. The idea of the bushido and by extention the asian infuence of the chapter would stem from the culture of the world they are recruited from. It would be something that would be instilled in them on their homeworld and would for the most part be an everyday way of life there. The children would begen training in this way of life from a very early age, and i don't mean only the martial part of it but the martial aspect would obviously be something that would attract a space marine chapter from wanting to recruit potential space marines from there. I want the chapter to exibit the tenets of bushido like benevolence (jin) respect (rei) honesty (makoto) rectitude (gi) courage (yu) honor (meiyo) loyalty (chugi). All of which as i previously mentioned would translate well into the space marine way of life. Also for them honor would be something that would be something that would be highly values and failure would mean dishonor and would not be an option, not unlike the Iron Hands that i mentioned as my founding chapter. The bionics as part of the IH way of life would not be too far removed from the samurai way of life because as per their way of life and their belieif in the bushido they sought perfection in one's self. They would show compassion for humans especially their home planets as samurai because they are lesser beings and as the station of the samurai and the space marine it is their job, their duty, to protect them.

 

One thing that i have been debating on is seppuku. While dishonor would be a huge thing i don't think that a space marine would commit straight up suicide because it would be a waste of their resources and they are too valueable. But i have read in Iron Hands fluff that they have executed thousands of humans for their failure. If memory serves a planet had turned to Chaos and the Iron Hands marines killed hundreds of thousands in penence for their lack of faith.

 

Samurai also showed reverance for their gear such as their weapons and armor which many many times were ancestreal and spiritual and were passed down from one generation to anotion. There again that is not unlike the space marines who gear their armor and bolter etc from pervious generations of space marines. These weapons to both sam and sm are more then just tools of war, they are relics and are as much religious as they are weapons. I think the machine spirits of the 40k world translate well here as well to a degree.

 

I know that in some areas if may seem like i am reaching here, but i don't think that this idea is as far removed as some of the more sceptical readers may think it is. When i say that i was to do this i don't mean the hollywoodism afro samurai japanese anime version. i meant he true pholosophy of bushiso that was precticed in feudal japan. Again thanks again for the feedback especially to my sceptical reader because opposite points of view are just as important to the creation of this as my "pro" stand point. You help me see things that i may not have seen on my own. Keep em coming guys.

[The Shiny One]

Sounds to me that Iron Hands are not the best geneseed for this. The White Scars are pretty influenced by there homeworld culture, or the salamanders for there devotion to the people.

[IronFather84]

This chapter is not a founding chapter it will be a seccussor chapter probably from multiple other foundings. I understand that everyone automatically thinks White Scars when i say japanese based culture because they are asian as well but that would be like saying my French army must be from Germany because they are both white. I don't choose white scars because they are a mongol based chapter and as per their culture are hugely nomadic and litterally borne onto horse back, while in the Bushido culture only "high samurai" were permitted to ride horses. Not only that the barbaric culture of the mongols could not be further from the sophicticated honor based culture of the bushido. Not that i am trying trash talk that culture. Also my army is not going to be a assault marine/bike based army and is going to have dreadnaughts in it so there again not very white scars. Case in point the Mortifactors are a Ultramarines SECOND founding chapter! they worship and rever their dead. they drink blood they believe in voodoo and prophecies and things like that. That in my mind suggest central american aztec not the the roman/greek culture their founding chapter was based on. The Mortifactors and the Ultramarines could not be more differant.

[Stazbumpa]

Been away so not seen any updates for this. Apologies for the thread necrophilia, so to speak.

 

Ahem, but no.

Ninja's were of the commoner-caste, not the warrior-caste. Another thing is that the ninja's code was exact opposite of the Bushido, the warrior-code of samurai.

 

All of this somewhat disqualified them from being the samurai.

 

Not really. One of the most famous individuals ever associated with ninja is Hattori Hanzo and he was samurai through and through. The Iga and Koga families who were renown as major players in the field of ninja (which broadly translates as "hidden man") were also warrior caste. It is true that ninja were not always samurai, but they were at least bushi and a lot were of samurai caste in any case. The notion that their "ninja code" set them apart from the samurai is incorrect, they were just warriors trained in other methods of warfare. It is worth remembering that the samurai code of loyalty unto death was sometimes forgotten when an individual saw fit, and a good example of this would be Akechi Mitsuhide.

 

Btw, what is "ninja-to"?

 

The (straight) ninja sword that certain websites make a lot of money from selling.

 

#A He is talking about Ashigaru, a militia made of the peasants.

 

I know. Ashigaru were indeed peasants, however the fact they were in military service made them bushi and Hideyoshi's Separation Edict of 1591/92 saw to it that the samurai and the bushi became one and the same and that there would never again be any upward social mobility. The ashigaru then became samurai by default, any other peasants seeking military service would find themselves doing a lot of fetching and carrying. That said, I think the term ashigaru was still used and they were regarded as the lowest rank of the samurai class.

 

#B Errm, weren't the first true dji zamurai, a gentry made from off-shots of Imperial family and court aristocracy (Fujiwara)?

 

The word "samurai" stems from the Japanese word "saburau" which means "to serve". Samurai means "one who serves", and was also applied to menial staff in all sorts of professions before the palace guards at Nara got hold of it. The Fujiwara clan were regents and they were very good at producing attractive female offspring that were continually married off to the Imperial line. Their way of controlling Imperial power ended when the clans with a penchant for armour and weapons came to the fore. Some of these clans were of Imperial descent, others were from the existing aristocracy, and others still were created by enterprising laymen who had murdered their overlords and taken control.

 

#C You meant Hideyoshi's "Hunt on the swords"? Well, as I understand that decree, it codified the difference between the peasantry and warriors. However, there was still difference between the samurai and ashigaru.

 

It was the Separation Edict that codified the social class system and prevented mobility, ironic since its author and the highest ranking samurai at the time was the son of a peasant wood cutter. The sword hunt, one of several, was merely an exercise in disarming the masses to prevent rebellion. Most of the weapons ended up in the daimyo stockpiles. Anyway, over to IronFather84:

 

I understand that everyone automatically thinks White Scars when i say japanese based culture because they are asian as well but that would be like saying my French army must be from Germany because they are both white.

 

I totally agree and I deliberately ignored the White Scars for this same reason, however I think the trick is to bear in mind the psychological traits of the parent chapter and how they apply to your chapter. What are the traits of the Iron Hands?

 

The Mortifactors and the Ultramarines could not be more differant.

 

I agree with this too. Some First Founding chapters are safer to work with than others, and can provide a more rounded platform to work from. Again it comes down to chapter traits, for example the Ultramarines successors tend to have a thing for the Codex Astartes and that's about it. Apart from that you have a pretty blank sheet to work with. The same can be said for the Imperial Fists (my personal donor chapter choice), although they have an interesting stubbornness about them and tendency to self flagellate. Someone else mentioned the Salamanders and they would make another good parent chapter choice. Up to you though mate, I'm not a fan of the Iron Hands myself but if you can make it work then go for it :P

 

Just my tuppence on the subject.

[IronFather84]

Actually Stazbumpa I am extremely appreciative of the feed back. I was hoping to get more so thanks for keepint the thread alive. OK i was working this a little more over the last couple days and i will put what i have came up with. Once again my redunant discliamer that is this is not intended to be 100% accurate and i have taken some created liberties and there will people with criticise but i say bring it one but ulitmately this is intended to be fun and if you don't like it create your own lol. Here is is

 

As for potienal names: Scions of Medusa, Bretherin of the Sun, Ghost of Medusa, Jade Bretherin, and Champions of Medusa.

 

Home world: Nippon-koku

 

Nippon-koku is a largely a feral world ruled by a feudal caste system. The majority of the world is used for agricultural purposes, with the exception of one particular mountain range rich with raw minerals. The adeptus Mechanicus set up a forge city, large mining operation, and STC on Nippon-koku and produces equipment for the Imperium. The People of Nippon-koku are very superstitious people and they live by the warrior code. The ruling caste of the people is the sabarai. The suburai adhere to the warrior code and are not allowed to stray from the code. To deviate from the code in any way is to dishonor ones' self. As part of the subarai is their job to lead the people and defend the people so the suburai train constantly. As part of the warrior code they must continually strive to advance themselves and seek perfection as a warrior. Very few wars are fought with mass armies; many are settled through single combat of rival champions, as is personal disputes.

 

The people are organized to 12 clans, each corresponding to the 12 ancient astrological signs. They are the Nezumi, Tora, Usagi, Tatsu, Hebi, Saru, Inu, Inoshishi, Ushi, Hitsuji, Uma, and Tori. Each clan is self suffient and act independent of the other 11 clans. They are constantly in competition with one another for their world’s limited resources.

 

Nippon-koku was set upon by the forces of chaos led by the demon prince Gathorianteus and is chaos marine followers. Much of the population turned to chaos and began to worship the “oni” of legend and the Adeptus Mechanicus Forges came under siege. The AM called to their allies the Iron Hands to aid them fearing the loss of their precious STC. After a hard fought battle the world was saved and in return Nippon-koku was rewarded to the Iron Hands as recruitment world but the Lord Fabricator and the high lords of Terra sanctioned a new founding chapter to be based there to protect the STC.

 

The warrior code society and their constant striving for perfection and distain for weakness make them a perfect recruitment world for the iron hands. They only recruit from the subarai class. Young males begin their martial training at the age of 8 and at the age of 12 undergo their gempuko, their coming of a man society. During this ceremony is when potential marines are recruited. The Gempuko happens once a year in the associated month of the clan sign, during each gempuko the space marine recruiter is present, during this time a festival is celebrated and the best of the subarai are given the honor of going with the Space Marine.

 

The [chapter name] are divergant from the codex astartes in the fact that they enshew the use of scouts and that they have 12 smaller companies rather then 10. They believe that practice of employing sneaking and subterfuge tactics is dishonorable combat. Potential space marines undergo training, are tested, and providing they survive the process of becoming a space marine are inducted to the ashigaru squads. The Ashigaru are given a chain sword and bolt pistol and must prove their courage in armed combat. Once a Space Marine serves in the Ashigaru squads and prove themselves as a honorable and capible warrior they are awarded the coveted bolter and are permitted to move up in rank and station and become a full marine.

 

The chapter is lead by a Daimyo(space marine captain), his Yojimbo (command squad), the clan Shugenja (librarian) and the Iron Father, and his heimen(servitors), and the clan's venerable acient (dreadnought). Once of the honored leaders is elected by the clan to be part of the Shogunate Council. They serve as the chapter master of the chapter master so that no single marines have too much power. Each clan consist of around 85 space marines. 3-4 Tactical Squads, 1 Ashigaru Squad (around 15 Ashigaru), 1 Dec squad, 1 assault squad, and 1 veteran squad, and support vehicles. Like their Iron Hands founders and their constant desire to become the perfect warrior they heavily employ the use of bionics. Terminator suits are few and far between and usually only awarded to the most honorable of the chapter.

 

Sorry it's a little long but thanks to the ones who suffered through my back grammar and spelling mistakes and thanks for any feedback.

[NightrawenII]

The notion that their "ninja code" set them apart from the samurai is incorrect, they were just warriors trained in other methods of warfare. It is worth remembering that the samurai code of loyalty unto death was sometimes forgotten when an individual saw fit, and a good example of this would be Akechi Mitsuhide.

That's not my point. Ninja-code sets them apart because the main drive of Ninja was to return with the information at all cost and another activities deemed as dishonourable. This is clashing a lot with the principles of bushido. So even if you are/were samurai, the moment you became ninja you are disqualified from samurai class, because the morals of these two are quite different.

It's the same like with ronin. They are, for the most part, members of samurai class. But for any "normal" samurai they are outcasts and mongrels.

 

And c'mon! You are using the traitor, who betrayed his own feudal lord, as the example?

 

Their way of controlling Imperial power ended when the clans with a penchant for armour and weapons came to the fore. Some of these clans were of Imperial descent, others were from the existing aristocracy, and others still were created by enterprising laymen who had murdered their overlords and taken control.

My point was that these clans, the Taira and Minamoto, established the meaning and purpose of samurai. It's not that I disagree with you, just that the imagery of samurai as we know them today has roots in these warrior-clans.

 

++++++

Home world: Nippon-koku

This is official name of Japan, I refer you to the above post of mine. :)

 

Nippon-koku is a largely a feral world ruled by a feudal caste system. The majority of the world is used for agricultural purposes, with the exception of one particular mountain range rich with raw minerals. The adeptus Mechanicus set up a forge city, large mining operation, and STC on Nippon-koku and produces equipment for the Imperium.

Feral means (~)medieval-era technology level. I'm not sure how could you have forge-city there and still remain feral.

 

The People of Nippon-koku are very superstitious people and they live by the warrior code. The ruling caste of the people is the sabarai. The suburai adhere to the warrior code and are not allowed to stray from the code. To deviate from the code in any way is to dishonor ones' self. As part of the subarai is their job to lead the people and defend the people so the suburai train constantly. As part of the warrior code they must continually strive to advance themselves and seek perfection as a warrior.

Once again, I refer you to the above post of mine. ;)

 

The people are organized to 12 clans, each corresponding to the 12 ancient astrological signs.

Unlikely, but okey.

 

The adeptus Mechanicus set up a forge city, large mining operation, and STC on Nippon-koku...

~

The AM called to their allies the Iron Hands to aid them fearing the loss of their precious STC.

Standart Template Construct vary in form and purpose from the factory to the single data-slate. I'm not sure about the factory-type, but the data-slate one is more common and you can simply modify your factory to produce the STC design.

 

After a hard fought battle the world was saved and in return Nippon-koku was rewarded to the Iron Hands as recruitment world but the Lord Fabricator and the high lords of Terra sanctioned a new founding chapter to be based there to protect the STC.

Doesn't work. The Iron Hands have already recruitment world. 2nd, Why not move the STC into better guarded location?

[sgt.skittles]

wow nightrawen you really do like trolling people. first of all everything he said would work because

 

A: its in a future where most history is lost so they can do whatever he wants.

b: he paid his good money to do whatever he wants.

c: its a game...if you don't like it quit

[Wysten]

wow nightrawen you really do like trolling people. first of all everything he said would work because

 

A: its in a future where most history is lost so they can do whatever he wants.

b: he paid his good money to do whatever he wants.

c: its a game...if you don't like it quit

 

A quick refresher:

 

A) This section's sole perpose in the forum is to smooth an arcticle and provide constructive critisum. There is nothing wrong with that and the advisor was perfectly cival in the way he addressed his suggestions. He's not angry, the topic writer is not angry, that means that there is no problems.

 

B ) There is nothing stopping the writer doing what he wants, just he's put the information here because he wants help refining it and often, it is within his best interests to at least consider given advice to broaden his scope.

 

C) While it is a game, some people like concepts, but at the same time let this idealisum blur their grasp on the univerce they are basing the ideals in. This place is the relailty check that prevents silly chapters popping up and helps ground the chapter with a dose of grimdark, rather then Japan in space.

 

 

In this case, nothing was wrong.

[IronFather84]

Wysten thanks for the reply. I think that you are right as i previously stated that oppsoing arguements are great. Constructive cristism is great, condesending critism is on the other hand is not, nor is smart comments of personal attacks on everyone in the thread. I think that critism is great but how are we as a gaming community suppose to grow if you don't add suggestions to help one another to improve as players. Instead of saying i think that is stupid or that would never happen. maybe say well i don't think that is would work because X and i would reccomend X.

 

First and foremost THIS IS NOT JAPAN. i understand all your amatuer historians out there want to pick out everything that happened and feudal japan and argue until your faces turn blue but this is not japan. I simply said i would like to borrow aspects of it to give my army a theme or flavor. Certain people may want to make sly comments about whay they think is cliche and what is not and how long they waited for this day but there is a reaon cliche is cliche, it works. I too can site the dictionary if you would like. As far as the bushido and samurai and ashigaru that was a big part of japan at the time and that is what i wanted in my army. i am sorry that in your opinion it's stupid of out done but if you don't like it you don't have to read the thread it's just a game and this is just for fun. I am not trying to say that this army is 100% historically accurate, it's not supposed to me.

 

Nippon-koku (or Nihon-koku) is Japanese for Japan, i am aware of that, where do you think i got it from? And i could care less about your precious post or personal opinons of cliche. (see how that comes off as condesending and not helpful?)

 

I am aware of what ferel means and fully intended for the world to be that way. It not not unfeasable to think that the Adeptus Mechanicus would place a forge world on a planet and refuse admittance to anyone not of their occult in order to horde their secrets, and leave the rest of the world that is not useful to them untouched.

 

As far as modeling the chapter after the bushido that was kind of the cheif aspect that i wanted to borrow from the feudal era japan. And again i still don't want to refer to your previous post. It worked for the subarai so why wouldn't it work for my space marine chapter? The practice of the bushido is not that far removed from the same principals that every space marine chapter adhere to.

 

Ok so you may agree that using a unorthadox number of companies is not a good idea. But it wouldn't be the first time that a chapter had done so. and this is easily corrected.

 

As for the STC/forge city. I would think that a entire forge city persumebly but around a STC would not be easily moved, but then again i have never move a city before. And if a world had an over abundance of minerals, enough so that an STC was place there and a forge city built around it, i would think that the adeptus mechcanicus would want to protect it, especailly given the fact that an STC is rare.

 

I am also aware that the Iron Hands have their own recruitment world. I implied that the world was given to the Iron Hands to set up their successor chapter there not for them to recruit from personal. I apologize for the implaction and perhaps i should have said it out right.

 

Altough i would like to thank you for agreeing and reitterating my point of ninjas being the anti samurai. This once no intended to be a debate on feudal japan it is just to flush out my chapter and make it work while keeping the ideas i had in mind for it. it's not meant to be a silly of unrealistic chapter. Once again thanks for reading and trying to keep me straight.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

A: its in a future where most history is lost so they can do whatever he wants.

b: he paid his good money to do whatever he wants.

c: its a game...if you don't like it quit

 

All these points are moot when posting in a section purposefully designed for you to be given constructive criticism on your work and ideas. These are all opinions of various board members. He was not trolling anyone, he was giving his opinion.

 

We try to work within the shared universe and this is one of the key reasons we post, to help each other work within these set of communal guidelines.

 

Next time you want to accuse someone of being a troll, take a careful look at what you're talking about first, and try not being so abrasive.

 

Altough i would like to thank you for agreeing and reitterating my point of ninjas being the anti samurai. This once no intended to be a debate on feudal japan it is just to flush out my chapter and make it work while keeping the ideas i had in mind for it. it's not meant to be a silly of unrealistic chapter. Once again thanks for reading and trying to keep me straight.

 

Now you've said quite a lot here, and frankly a lot of your justification is off.

 

While I and most everyone in the forum here respects the fact that at the end of the day this is indeed your chapter, which lives and dies according to your own vision of them, that's not we are here for.

 

We aren't here to praise everyone for their own (read cookie-cutter cliches) variation of the same themes over and over and over and over and bloody over again. If the members here didn't have a concensus to try and advise on how to best make your chapter both fit within the shared universe we all work in and make it an interesting and decent read in of itself the entire board would be full of Spartan, Roman, Viking and god knows what other chapters.

 

The sheer amount of commonality and unoriginal in peoples initial ideas is staggering. However, this isn't the problem here.

 

The problem is that you're forcing cultural references into a chapter that either wouldn't exist in their current form or would be far removed. Feudal Japan doesn't exist in modern 40k. Call the code something else, bring up good justification for it being part of their culture and it's fine. The reason we're saying this is so that you don't break the readers suspension of disbelief when they read about your chapter.

 

I read 'Samurai' or 'Bushido' or any other historical japanese term and I am immediately ripped straight out of the 40k universe, which is not what you want when reading about an organization that is meant to exist within said universe.

 

 

Yes these are just our opinions. However, if you didn't want to hear them you shouldn't have posted in an open forum. If you have all these ideas and are defending them so vehemently, what do you want from us?