Orphus Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Ok, so i've only been able to use my Bjorn clone a couple of times when my regular Necron opponent queried this- he said that Bjorn's ward of the primarch rule did not work against the Necron Lord's Warscythe, that allowed no saves of any sort against it. I countered saying that the rule refers to the result itself, regardless how the glancing or penetrating hits were inflicted. In fair sport I was given the benefit of the doubt but he wasn't entirely happy about it despite not making much difference to the outcome of the game. who was in the wrong? ...and I did search for this answer first :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmund Hammerhand Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That depends on the way the warscythe's rules are written. If, for example it allows no saves of any kind against "wounds" caused by it, then the ward of the primarch works just fine seeing as you don't wound vehicles. If it is written in a way that prevents any saves whatsoever against it, then the ward of the primarch wouldn't work either if you ask me, considering that it is clearly an invulnerable save. How is a necron lord able to get any results against bjorn, though? does the warscythe give him 2D6 armour penetration or a strength bonus? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Warscythes and close combat attacks by the C'tan ignore invulnerable saves. As ward of the primarch is an invulnerable save I think is safe to say that it would be ignored. The fact that it happens after rolls to penetrate are made is neither here nor ther as saves can normally only be made after wounds have been caused, this is obviously a bit difficult for vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I agree with stinky, buy your opponent an ale! :RTBBB: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Ok, so i've only been able to use my Bjorn clone a couple of times when my regular Necron opponent queried this- he said that Bjorn's ward of the primarch rule did not work against the Necron Lord's Warscythe, that allowed no saves of any sort against it. I countered saying that the rule refers to the result itself, regardless how the glancing or penetrating hits were inflicted. In fair sport I was given the benefit of the doubt but he wasn't entirely happy about it despite not making much difference to the outcome of the game. who was in the wrong?...and I did search for this answer first :P Ward of the primarch is an invulnerable save. C'tan do not allow invulnerable saves. So... no 5++ for Bjorn. Same thing with Warscythes. Stinkenheim is spot on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphus Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 @ Sigmund H: didn't think about the rules wording... @ Stinky: point made...bugger @ Lord Rags: if that's for consolation over the doubt, I guess, but if not, i'de rather drink it myself...wash away my sadness at what I thought was a nice little loophole @ Grey Mage: sigh, guess that's too much fact to be ignored..oh well the saga goes on! Thx for clearing that up, not the result I was hoping for but a result none the less! :nonexistantaleshareemoticon: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 How is a necron lord able to get any results against bjorn, though? does the warscythe give him 2D6 armour penetration or a strength bonus? Was wondering about this as well. Anyone know? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 How is a necron lord able to get any results against bjorn, though? does the warscythe give him 2D6 armour penetration or a strength bonus? Was wondering about this as well. Anyone know? It's both: 2d6 + Str bonus, so they are quite nasty against Dreads - IF they survive long enough to hit back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Bloodhowl Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 @Schertenleib: a Necron Warscythe allows the wielder to roll 2D6 for armour penetration rolls (like a chainfist). It also ignores armour, invulnerable and cover saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Wow! Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 well, all close combat attacks ignore cover saves... and yes, the wayscythe basically makes the lord a monstrous creature, so S+2d6 armour penetration, while ignoring invulnerable saves as well (which is rare), quite nice and I rarely took my necron lord without one (back when i played with them <_<). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2613682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If you want to get really technical (and I say this as a thought excersize, not a suggestion to be weaselly), if the wording goes something like "a model does not get an invulnerable save against wounds inflicted by the warscythe" then you could claim that an armor penetration roll is not a wound. I wouldn't suggest trying it, though, as it's both silly and likely to get your head caved in with a Monolith. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2614327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If you want to get really technical (and I say this as a thought excersize, not a suggestion to be weaselly), if the wording goes something like "a model does not get an invulnerable save against wounds inflicted by the warscythe" then you could claim that an armor penetration roll is not a wound. I wouldn't suggest trying it, though, as it's both silly and likely to get your head caved in with a Monolith. Technicly the rules states something else for the warscythe, technicly its states "their are no saving throws of any kind allowed against a Warscythe". So technicly you have to read the Necron codex to technicly understand it. Now thats real technical..... -_- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2614406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 nothing technical, its just rules lawyering, no inv is no inv, wounds or no wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2614418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 No wounds are mentioned in the codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219138-bjorn-and-ward-of-the-primarch/#findComment-2614456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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