dangerous terrain and wound allocation

[greatcrusade08]

hi all

 

if you had a unit of bikers with an assault bike and captain (for example) and they all had to take dangerous terrain tests how does the mechanics work.

do you roll a dice for each seperate 'group' or do you roll the dice first and then allocate which wound goes to which model.

 

ive always thought it was the latter, but ive been thinking about this recently, and im really not sure

 

thanks

[Seahawk]

It's actually on a model by model basis, so you'd roll seperately for each one.

[Ashe Darke]

Aye, it says for models that enter not units. It's the same reason why you should roll for each model when rapid firing plasma guns.

[greatcrusade08]

ah right, but in terms of identical models should you batch roll?

[Seahawk]

No, because even with chumps it usually matters. Say you are assaulting. Only one member of a unit (a generic chump even) is actually within charge range. He goes over Dangerous terrain and dies...now you don't charge because you're outside the range. I suppose you can batch roll when the outcome doesn't matter.

[breng77]

Thats right it is model by model, there is no allocation.

[greatcrusade08]

very interesting.. thanks chaps

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Now I thought it said something like "For every model that enters dangerous terrain." Or something to that effect which I always took to mean they changed it from past editions and just meant for you to roll X Dice and then remove casualties. What exactly is the wording on it?

[Ashe Darke]

Exactly, you roll a dice for each model, and if that model gets a 1 then it suffers a wound with no armour or cover saves allowed. Simple, it happens to the model, not the unit. In this case think of each guy that enters as his own unit for the purposes of being wounded.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Exactly, you roll a dice for each model, and if that model gets a 1 then it suffers a wound with no armour or cover saves allowed. Simple, it happens to the model, not the unit. In this case think of each guy that enters as his own unit for the purposes of being wounded.

 

each and every is rather different grammatically mind you GW doesnt really care about that as per First Rank Fire Second Rank fire being changed but oh well.

 

Each is a very Individualistic overtone whilst Every is an inclusive group sense to it.

 

So the sentence:

"For Every model entering Dangerous Terrain...."

Is entirely different from the sentence:

"For Each model entering Dangerous Terrain...."

 

Where the first one is inclusive making it a group of rolls and then second is exclusive meaning that each model is treated individually. Hence my last post questioning what exactly the wording was :3

[thade]

Yep, per model's a lil weird, but Dangerous Terrain is a little weird. For these tests I point to each model, name it, and roll it's check. If it fails and has an invuln save available, I take that immediately after. (Note that Dangerous Terrain tests say "No cover or armor saves may be taken", not precluding invulns.)

[bystrom]

It says for "every model" but then goes on to say "if [...] the model suffers", which seems to indicate enough that its a per model basis anyways.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

No at all I think its very clear.

 

The group as a whole rolls the dice. And then for each 1 rolled a model suffers a wound with no armour or cover. Or thats how I read it.

"Roll a d6 for every model that has entered, left or moved through one or more areas of dangerous terrain during its move. On the roll of a 1, the model suffers a wound, with no armour or cover saves allowed (Wounds and saves are explained in the next section)" pg 14

 

 

It also points you directly to shooting wounds and saves which says wounds must be assigned after being rolled.

[Wildfire]

I think it is on a per model basis, as it states the model rather than a model. Referencing the sections on wounds and saves is for those that don't know what a wound or save is yet.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I don't think it is clear one way or the other.

 

One group will argue that Dangerous terrain is explicit and tells you what is needed and the other group will tell you it references the wounds section.

 

Considering that Trooper Bob, hidden behind a large rock, can be removed as a casualty when the rest of his squad, who are exposed, are shot shows that it is just as plausible for someone not in the Dangerous Terrain to die and leave those in the terrain where they are. Assuming they are identically armed.

 

I think it is ambiguous enough that you need to sort out what happens at the start of the game whenever using Dangerous Terrain or things that make DT