Plague Angel Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) “I am Adeptus Astartes, honed into a blade by true servants of the Emperor; I am not a nursemaid to weaklings and those unwilling to fight for their lives or their cause...” — Captain Aruun Volk, 3rd Company, Imperial Reavers I like this quote, but it comes out of nowhere. I'd give it a sidebar or a caption box or something, instead of it just being in the middle of the text suddenly. Heck, it could even be the beginning of the IA. Such occurrences would not be limited only to Third Company during this campaign, though only Volk was so vocal in defending his actions. Passive voice again. This sentence is weak and doesn't really add anything. Du’shaal was unaware both of this and the missives reaching the fleet through the ether; This poor clause is trying to do far too much. the First Company detachment fighting its way to theGates of Tal-Maruun, supported by the Fourth, placed him in the thickest fighting This is should be (and is, mostly) an independent clause, but it's structured like a dependent clause. Even though it has all the requirements for being independent, they're jumbled in a way that makes it hard to read. ;Du’shaal was battered and all but broken by the end of the combat, though he and the First overcame startling odds to destroy the force of World Eaters intent on taking the Gates. Is that a third independent clause? Dude, the sentence is done. It is tired. For both his own valour and that of his Chapter, Du’shaal was awarded an ancient yet deadly suit of Terminator Armour held by the Forge World, one which he gracefully refused. Du'Shaal would later be heard to say that it was both his honour and duty in protecting the Imperium and he would not profit from it. I know this is subjective, but I've always found it highly rude to reject a gift. "Graceful refusals" are for politically tense situations, where accepting the gift could lead to problems later. I see no good here from rejecting it, so it just comes across (to me, at least) as insulting. That suit of armour is probably a huge deal to the Forge World and they wouldn't give it away lightly, but I guess it's not good enough for the Space Marines. During his recovery aboard the Chapter flagship Last Days Du’shaal would take the time to access records for the entire campaign, as well as those messages sent from Caelum for his attention, with Captain Volk was given the sternest reprimand for his actions, though such discipline was eventually meted out across the Chapter as other instances of such neglect came to light. Again, too much information in one sentence. Also, changing verb tenses. Vaen would discover flaws in a selection of the geneseed he examined; such flaws were subtle though and he could not fathom what effect this might have on a battle brother. Ever questing for knowledge, Vaen took a great step in dissecting the corpse of a deceased battle brother – such an action frowned upon even by other members of the Apothecarion – and it would not be until Master Apothecary Vaen began to examine the brain that conclusions would be drawn. Until now, the story has been in past tense. Why did it change to future? The brain of a battle-brother would begin to undergo changes with the passage of time, though the chemicals and organs used in the creation and maintainance of a battle-brother would also retard the change for a time. How would a secondary heart or a acid-producing land delay brain damage? The full power of the war fleet of the Chapter No, it doesn't work. The full power of the Chapter's war fleet. so that even the Sea of Glass became like its namesake Try reading that out loud. "Long did Vulkan preach that the greatest enemy was always within, but I never paid heed to those words. Instead I carried my blade against the enemies of Man, forsaking all consequences. We have reaped a strong harvest from this world, and now it seeks to destroy what was taken. As a servant of the Emperor I cannot allow that Huh? Why not? What does what the planet wants have to do with his duty to the Emperor? The Chapter would accept a heavy burden following the Purge of Caelum and, following a missive sent to the nearest Inquisitorial Conclave, would retreat to the edges of Imperial space under the orders of First Captain Du'shaal. This was not the quiet period of peaceful reflection, broken only by slaying the enemies of Man on the Edges of space, that Du'shaal had envisaged First, that doesn't sound like peaceful reflection. Second, if they "accepted a heavy burden" why would he expect that burden to be "a quiet period of peaceful reflection"? like a shoal of fish with a predator That's rather odd, and the image it conjures up makes the Reavers look pretty cowardly. On top of that, it should be a shoal of fish before a predator. If the fish are with the predator, it's a rather odd decision on the predator's part to just hang around. Is he a bodyguard or something? perished as the Chapter moved back to their assault boats and Thunderhawks having beaten the Orks within Pick which verb the sentence is about and stick with it. The death of Du'shaal was such a blow that it rocked the Chapter to its core and with no ready-made successor to the post Awfully negligent on Du'shall's part. Captain Talek of Fifth Company would be chosen nine months later to succeed Du'shaal, the first Marine in the Chapters history to take the mantle of Chapter Master and even-tempered tough Talek was, his reign would not be long in coming to an end. Two independent clauses joined by not even so much as a comma. Almost ten years to the day since the Purge How convenient. Almost ten years to the day since the Purge, the Chapter assembled in full as if by some unspoken command, Brother greeted Brother and the sense of guilt was so thick upon the air that it could be felt and tasted almost. Do I even have to say anything? They came together as one to mourn once more the world that was lost. With Talek and the flagship Last Call leading the way, the Chapter plunged deep back into Imperial space searching for a way to remove the stain of guilt from their souls. Pick one. Also, didn't they do this already? So they would come to the world dubbed Tathos Secundus, home to an abhuman community shunned by an Imperium that could find no use for them. Long had the abhumans fled from the purists ofthe Imperium, bringing their small community to the almost forgotten world of Tathos in a last bid to live out their lives as they choose and it was here that the Imperial Reavers found them, forced to suffer beneath the beginning of an Ork invasion. Master Talek would waste no time in ordering the Chapter to a full war deployment, seeing far too much of Caelum and its people upon the surface of Tathos, in hope of ridding the Chapter of its collective guilt. Humanitarian goals aside, how could they atone for their sin by saving a bunch of people that are heretics by Imperial standards? Edited January 25, 2011 by Plague Angel Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) It was an action that could never be truly won by the Imperial Reavers but in the act of meaningless sacrifice they found a way rid themselves of their guilt. They did? Where? How? For three weeks the Chapter fought hard to prevent the Orks from landing further forces. Hit and run strikes by the fleet accounting for doxens of Ork vessels, even as they burned themselves. Are those really the words you want to use? Upon the surface of the world the fight was harder going, Um... These are some good ideas, but in the case of the writing the words should better being? And so it would go that the Imperial Reavers would spend their years roaming the dges of Imperial space until such time as their guilt made itself manifest in such a powerful way What does that even mean? In the latter years of their history as more recruits were taken from other worlds the years of guilt and the pinnacle of that guilt during the sacrifice continue now only out of tradition How does a pinnacle continue? Honouring the use of ten Companies, of various designations, as laid down by Robute Guilliman of the Ultramarines. This isn't a sentence. Following the Purge a number of changes occured with each Company moulded into the shape of a Battle Company Why? What was wrong with the Reserve Companies? The First Company still comprises the majority of the Imperial Reavers veterans but unlike the other companies recruits solely from within the Chapter itself where any other Battle Company must find its recruits through the traditional Astartes methods of screening and selecting those of an age and suitablility to undergo indcution. So they're a veteran company that takes its members from the others. How are they different from any other First Company? These changes, going against the tenets of the Codex, enable each company of the Imperial Reavers to operate independantly and be entirely self-sufficient during the naval operations that characterise the Chapters operations. I think it'd be the opposite actually. With no Reserve Companies, they're going to have a tough time recouping their losses. By being "independent" they're actually less sufficient. Though this invariably benefits the Chapter to a great degree Nope. The Codex has Reserve Companies for a reason. If having all Battle Companies was better than having some Battle Companies and some Reserve, Guilliman would have written it that way. All in all, the Unchained are far more interesting. There's a lot of flaws here: The gene-seed selection feels completely arbitrary — if they were Guilliman stock, would anything of value change? I find it hard to believe that in all this time they haven't even so much as heard from another Imperial organization — there are no interactions with the Inquisition, or other Space Marine chapters, or their founding chapter. Their guilt just seems a variation on the Dark Angels shtick. There's no character to the Chapter as a whole to make them memorable when compared to other Chapters — right now, they're something like the Dark Angels, something like the Lamenters, and something like the Black Templar, and their armour is the color of unpainted plastic. ...but I still like you, Juan. Edited January 25, 2011 by Plague Angel Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) I'd bothered to try responding to the first part, but I'm not even going to bother now. This is no reflection on you, I hope you understand, but I wish you'd stayed away now. Edited January 25, 2011 by Captain Juan Juarez Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Oh come on bro, it's mostly grammar stuff. Don't take it personal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Oh come on bro, it's mostly grammar stuff. Don't take it personal. Oh I'm not.. It's more of a "I thought I'd done so well.." moment then it turns out you need three consecutive posts to critique it.. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) But like I said, it's mostly grammatical stuff. And like you said, you hate proof-reading. A firm careful look at the verb tenses and such would erase 90% of the bits I just quoted. And you still have room left to add definition. For example, there's no Gene-seed section. A well-done one, which I'm sure is within your abilities, would blow my "why are they Salamanders" complaint away. EDIT: Also, the reason there was more critique is because there's so much more story content. It needs polishing, but you are doing your job so far. Edited January 25, 2011 by Plague Angel Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Dya know whats worse? The crit printed out comes to nine pages. ^_^ I'll probably forgo dealing with it tomorrow, may have another crack when I come back to work on Thursday. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I wouldn't bother responding to any of my points unless you feel you really have to, honestly. Time would be better spent rewriting. And then, when you update it and I come across something that wasn't changed, I shall take it as a subtle DEAL WITH IT, Plague Angel. And so I shall. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Nah, the points you make are valid - sadly - even if some of them are just proof reading errors, or lack therof, and even stuff as stupid as "that's from an early draft...". It's most grammar, so so it seems.. Which means a rewrite is pretty much in order. Sadly, when I write I'm more interested in getting it down than getting it down so it's grammatically correct. On the upside.. It seems I can do really good names for ships. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 On the upside.. It seems I can do really good names for ships. It's true. I may ask you to name mine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 On the upside.. It seems I can do really good names for ships. It's true. I may ask you to name mine. I spent almost a year at Port Maw designing fanfic ships for BFG :lol: I'll give you the comedy name now then: The flagship Battlebarge must be called Spear of Longinus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madwolf Shadowmane Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 My only critique at this point is: – with the Warrior, the Healer, the Smith and the Stranger being the largest four of all the Orders present on Caelum. In the beliefs section you state the Chapter absorbs the major Orders, but I didn't see anything on the Stranger. I mention this because the concept peaked my interest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2633929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 My only critique at this point is: – with the Warrior, the Healer, the Smith and the Stranger being the largest four of all the Orders present on Caelum. In the beliefs section you state the Chapter absorbs the major Orders, but I didn't see anything on the Stranger. I mention this because the concept peaked my interest. I forgot about him in the redraft, but I do make a point of mentioning that most of the major Orders were absorbed.. Which accidentally saved my behind on that score :P I may re-add the Stranger, as I have to go back and rebuild after a savage attack on my grammar :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2634364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Just to let you know, I have started a full on crit of this chapter. I'll hopefully get it done by tomorrow and I'll send it to you. As Plague Angel said, don't feel bad if you get a lot of crit, with lots of comments here and there. It just means you've had someone look at your chapter with a lot of detail and you don't need to follow through on every piece of advice. I am quite hard when it comes to my full on crit, even those writers who have quite a number of IAs under their belt still need someone to crit them. If you don't believe me, ask Aurelius Rex how many comments I gave on his final version of the Ultramarines DH :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2635051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Why's everyone suddenly picking on me!? I suppose I'll await your critique as well, Ferrata, before mauling it again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2635188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Because you are an easy target seem to be doing a lot of responding lately so I thought it would be nice for me to help you out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2635221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Because you are an easy target seem to be doing a lot of responding lately so I thought it would be nice for me to help you out. Nah, I do appreciate the effort you guys have/will go to.. I've never actually gotten so far with an IA, so I'm kinda scared it might all fall down at this hurdle ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2635233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 So I've redrafted, after a lengthy critique from Ferrata... It isn't finished, the redraft I mean, by any means - I still have Plague Angels grammar issues to consider. But to be perfectly honest I'm considering a total rewrite, to add an addition focus in relating to guilt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2638262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Imperial Reavers I'm really not a fan of the name. Not least because the Reaver is a Titan, but also because it's kinda bleh. During the Sixth Founding the Imperial Reavers were brought into existence, ready to bring a new manpower to Mankind’s crusade to reclaim the stars. The earliest records of the Chapter show their initial campaigns were against the mercurial Eldar and their far sailing pirate fleets. A new manpower? That doesn't mean anything. You use 'their' to refer to two different subjects. Fighting Eldar pirates isn't crusading. It's securing territory. Brother-Captain Du'shaal, late of the Salamanders Seventh Company, was given the honour of leading this fledgling Chapter into existence. Du'shaal, a dour but capable Marine, displayed much of the Salamanders humanitarian nature. He would heed the word of the Emperor’s Tarot reading of Epistolary La’ruun in finding a cradle of creation for his new ward; this reading would lead to the world of Caelum in Segmentum Pacificus. He can't lead them into existence. They already exist. And why does it matter which Librarian found the place? The natives of Caelum live within a strict and ordered society; each man, woman or child is assigned a Caste at birth and neither deviations nor challenges to this order are tolerated. Such grounding aids those selected to join the Chapter, ensuring they already have an understanding of discipline and hierarchy. How do they assign membership in the Castes? The one exception to this strict and disciplinarian society is found within the groups known as Orders; each venerates an Aspect of the Skyfather - the name given to the Emperor in the Old Ways of Caelum. The Warrior, the Healer, the Smith and the Stranger are the largest found on Caleum. That sounds like it would overlap with the Castes. The Orders would find their way into the Chapter in an essence to capture that sense of brotherhood unfound in normal Caelun society; minds so hardwired to order and place that even the hypno-conditioning of the induction process could only alter so much. ...What? Recruitment from Caelum would initially prove to be successful above the normal rate; around half of all applicants survive the initiation process and even of those who fail many go on to serve the Chapter in other ways. Such a success rate was a marvel to the Apothecarion, though for the Imperial Reavers such a boon would come at a price, one unseen until it was too late to do anything but pay the cost. A marvel? Check C:SM 3e - I think 50% is about standard. The culture of the Orders was absorbed from the populace of Caelum. The God-Emperor, also known as the Sky-Father to the Chapter, is but the sum of many parts or faces. He was a Warrior, a Healer and a Smith. Within the Imperial Reavers every side of the Emperor is praised, mirroring the many faces of Humanity. What about the Stranger? The Order of the Blade is by far the largest of all; by definition every Reaver has martial skill but may be lacking the skills or provinence needed for the other Orders. The Order of the Blade emphasises becoming the purest and most formidable warrior and whilst every Brother can be counted upon to fight alongside his Brothers to the fullest degree, the Order teachs each the ability to fight alone as a pure expression of one’s self. But...but it was the Order of the Warrior... STOP CONFUSING MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! The Purge of Caelum This is a weird place for this section. Responding to a distress call from a small serf enclave outside of the main Forge, the entire available strength of the Chapter descended upon Tal-Maruun; four Companies near full strength along with a detachment of the First led by Chapter Master Vala Tuu – the chosen successor of Du’shaal and a humanitarian in the spirit of the former Salamander. So...is this on their home world or not? Such occurrences would not be limited only to Third Company during this campaign, though only Volk was so vocal in defending his actions. OK, we have little or no context for all this. You're not providing enough explanation. Master Apothecary Vau would be the first to discover a truth that would rock the Chapter to its very core. Wow. So the stuff before all this was, basically, pointless. "Long did Captain Du’shaal preach that the greatest enemy was always within and yet I never paid heed to those words, instead I carried my blade against the enemies of Man and forsook all consequences. Now we have reaped a strong harvest from Caelum and now this world seeks to destroy that which was taken; as a servant of the Emperor I cannot allow that and so I purge thee in fire and flame."- Master Tuu, Imperial Reavers, Purge of Caelum This whole section was basically incoherent. There was little or no explanation for what happened, there was no lead-up... What the hell was the point of all that? In the first eight years of their self-imposed exile the Chapter did not set one foot upon a single worlds surface, fighting and dying against their foes until almost driven to extinction. The culmination of this would be during an engagement against a rebel cruiser; it’s inevitable destruction costing the lives of Chapter Master Tuu and seven of his chosen Terminator bodyguard. Their foes conveniently stayed only in space? And so it would go that the Imperial Reavers would spend their years roaming the edges of Imperial space until such time as their guilt made itself manifest in such a powerful way, then the Chapter would assemble as a whole once more and seek out a cause worthy enough for them to purge the sins of Caelum upon the altar of sacrifice. Wow. So, again, there was little or no point to that. The Flamer and Meltagun both feature heavily in the arsenal of the Imperial Reavers, though this is less a nod to their forebears and more simple combat efficiency. The Heavy Bolter forms the staple heavy weapon carried by the Tactical Squads of the Chapter, though deployed in far less numbers than either the Flamer of Melta. Most of those organizational details simply aren't that interesting. * * * There's 3000 words here. I think I could sum up the Chapter in a few paragraphs. And on top of that, what's here is almost incoherent in places, and even the bits that are individually coherent are tenuously connected to the rest of what's going on. Quite simply, this isn't very good right now. There's some ideas in there that might work out, but the execution's seriously lacking. What are you trying to accomplish with this IA? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2642139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 :: Nudges Octy towards the latest version :: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2642145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Gah. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219156-ia-imperial-reavers/page/7/#findComment-2642151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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