Another Stormraven question.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

And you may still mishap. This situation only occurs when you choose to jump out of the Stormraven (which you payed points to have the beacon) within the path of the last 6 inches of its movement. That greatly limits the positions where you can deepstrike without a chance for mishap.

 

The things you need to make this work is:

A Stormraven

A locator beacon on the Stormraven

The Stormraven must move than than 18 inches (flat out)

only the last 6 inches of that movement line can be choosen as Deepstrike locations

The unit that disembarked counts for all aspect as having come in through deepstrike. So unless they are VV, they can't do that much.

 

This is not really unbalanced is it?

yes, you create a situation where you can safely keep your VV and drop them exactly where you want them in turn 1 but is that really, really that good considering the amount of points it costs you to be able to do that for 1 unit?

 

I say the slight illogical factor of it gets unbalanced because of the very limited tactical advantage one gets.

 

And this even completely ignores the fact the rules are clear! This is just to convince those RAI(WT) lawyers.

[Gentlemanloser]

But magically placed back into reserves?

 

It might have been better to make the unit take a Dangerous terrain test or the like to simulate the posibilty of damage from jumping out of a very fast moving transport.

 

But somehow being teleported back up into your Strike Cruiser/Thunderhawk and having to wait to redeploy. That's streaching it a bit. :P

[Plague Angel]

It might have been better to make the unit take a Dangerous terrain test or the like to simulate the posibilty of damage from jumping out of a very fast moving transport.

 

It might have, but that's not what we got. We got 'use the deep-strike rules' and so I say that we use the deep-strike rules — including the beacon.

[Gentlemanloser]

To which I agree totally. :lol:

 

(I just think suffering from a DS mishap from jumping out is a tad, silly, and is one of the reasons I fully support the Locator Beacon use!)

 

yes, you create a situation where you can safely keep your VV and drop them exactly where you want them in turn 1 but is that really, really that good considering the amount of points it costs you to be able to do that for 1 unit?

 

I say the slight illogical factor of it gets unbalanced because of the very limited tactical advantage one gets.

 

It could also be used (alluded to in the OP) to do things like drop S Guard with Infernus Pistols within 3" for Melta goodness. Or Rapid Firing Combi-Plasma joy. That sort of stuff. ^_^

[4RC71C FOXX]

But magically placed back into reserves?

 

It might have been better to make the unit take a Dangerous terrain test or the like to simulate the posibilty of damage from jumping out of a very fast moving transport.

 

But somehow being teleported back up into your Strike Cruiser/Thunderhawk and having to wait to redeploy. That's streaching it a bit. :teehee:

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the Codex entry for skies of blood it states "If any of the models cannot be deployed, the unit is destroyed as described in the 1-2 result on the Deeps Strike Mishap table" When this is combined with another statement in the entry: "If the unit scatters, every model must immediately take a dangerous terrain test."

 

My interpretation of the dangers from using this rule is:

 

Unless you roll a "hit" on the scatter die when you deploy the unit you must roll a dangerous terrain test for each model in the unit-regardless of wether the scatter would put them into terrain or clear ground.

 

If any of these dangerous terrain tests fail (roll a 1) then that model cannot be deployed as it has been "killed" - (assuming it only has a single wound left). Therefore as one or more models in the unit cannot be deployed, the whole unit is destroyed.

 

If the unit scatters into terrain that somehow prevents a certain model (or more than one model) to be deployed, e.g. perhaps the edge of the table and you cannot get a full circle of models around your original placement, and then even if all models pass their dangerous terrain test (for having scattered) then the whole unit is destroyed, as one or more models cannot be legally placed on the board.

 

If the position under the raven's flight path that you choose as the designated "jump zone" for the models is such that they cannot all be deployed in the concentric circles determined by the Deep Strike rules, due to terrain/ other models or board edge, and you roll a "hit" on the scatter, then no dangerous terrain tests or scatter, but the whole unit is destroyed as you cannot place one or more models.

 

This is the only mention of dangers to a unit deploying via Skies of Blood and therefore I do not think that a unit deploying in this manner can ever suffer a 3-4 or 5-6 on the Deep Strike Mishap table, as it is never asked to roll on this table-it is simple instructed to take dangerous terrain tests, and/or be destroyed.

 

 

If you are using jump pack equipped models from within the raven then you do not need to take a dangerous terrain test (unless you do actually land within dangerous terrain) and they would only roll 1D6 for scatter as per Descent of Angels. Therefore if you do land within terrain then take dangerous terrain tests, if any fail (roll a 1) then the whole unit is destroyed, or if somehow the placement of the models disallows one or more models to not be legally placed, i.e. terrain/ other models/ board edge. then the whole unit is destroyed.

 

 

So all in all it seems to be a pretty risky tactic, but could pay off if you can get a specific unit where you need it when you need it. Imagine a last turn objective grap from a gutsy assault marine squad with jump packs, or an even gutsier tactical squad :-P from starting their turn 24" away.

 

This would only affect units riding in the raven, any squad deep striking from reserve onto the board would be able to land accurately anywhere within the ravens position, but since this would need to be done before the raven moves it would be its starting point.

 

FOXX

[Gentlemanloser]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the Codex entry for skies of blood it states "If any of the models cannot be deployed, the unit is destroyed as described in the 1-2 result on the Deeps Strike Mishap table" When this is combined with another statement in the entry: "If the unit scatters, every model must immediately take a dangerous terrain test."

 

Ah! lol!

 

That's what you get from only half remembering rules. ;)

 

Glad to be corrected on that!

 

If any of these dangerous terrain tests fail (roll a 1) then that model cannot be deployed as it has been "killed" - (assuming it only has a single wound left). Therefore as one or more models in the unit cannot be deployed, the whole unit is destroyed.

 

That's going a little too far though. The 1-2 destroyed cause would only take effect if you actually couldn't deploy the mini. In essence, you roll for a DS mishap, but it limits the rolled result to 1-2 (or in essence changes the entire DS mishaps table to a single result).

 

If someone dies form a Dangerous Terrain test, the whole unit doens't go, as you've actually deployed the mini. It just dies as you deploy it.

[4RC71C FOXX]

I agree that this seems a little silly in that if one models makes a rubbish landing and kills them self how do the other models who did successfully land suddenly die themselves?

 

"imagine a squad jumps out of the raven, 9 members of the squad land successfully, but as always Bob misses his landing spot and kills himself, open noticing this the rest of the squad immediately resort back to their training and look for the nearest tree root to trip over and kill themselves with, or if they cannot find one, use their pistol on themselves-thus the Space Marines show their extreme tactical prowess"

 

As you can see it does seem very silly from a story point of view :-p .

 

But I have had this similar question pop up in regard to the Imperial Guard's Valkyrie similar rule: Grav Chute Insertion I believe, and the general consensus on that point was that since a model was not being deployed the whole squad died, making it a very dangerous tactic for guard to use.

 

Though I can see your point on that the model has been deployed, and then dies after having been deployed, by tripping over something or hitting his head on a beam :-P .

 

Hmm, this is a tough call I think. I would like to see what the general consensus on this point is here.

 

FOXX

[dswanick]

If any of these dangerous terrain tests fail (roll a 1) then that model cannot be deployed as it has been "killed" - (assuming it only has a single wound left). Therefore as one or more models in the unit cannot be deployed, the whole unit is destroyed.

 

I disagree. How can a model be killed by a difficult terrain test armor save failure until after is has been deployed in difficult terrain?

[4RC71C FOXX]

I disagree. How can a model be killed by a difficult terrain test armor save failure until after is has been deployed in difficult terrain?

 

This is a good point, in which case I believe the question we need to find the answer to is what is the order in which these events happen.

 

Do you deploy the squad first, or do you roll the dangerous terrain tests first?

 

FOXX

[Grey Mage]

I disagree. How can a model be killed by a difficult terrain test armor save failure until after is has been deployed in difficult terrain?

 

This is a good point, in which case I believe the question we need to find the answer to is what is the order in which these events happen.

 

Do you deploy the squad first, or do you roll the dangerous terrain tests first?

 

FOXX

It frankly doesnt matter much. Either A) the wounds happen first in wich case the model is no longer part of the unit and doesnt 'fail to be deployed' or the units happen after in wich case it already was deployed before you rolled the 1.

 

The only time itll come up is if you dont have room to deploy the whole squad and the removal of 1 or 2 guys would actually help you make them fit.

 

I would roll immediately after making the scatter roll and moving the lead model.

[4RC71C FOXX]

That is good to know, makes this type of deployment alot less dangerous, I would be willing to lose a couple of models for a better placement, but not the whole squad. Thanks

 

FOXX

[Rnathan]

This seems like a redundant debate to me. I would think that these two events would happen separately.

 

You would either deploy the squad, and either take your dangerous terrain tests, losing any relevant models, and then, what is left of the squad, when it should be deployed, would be deployed, and then you test to see if they all fit.

 

Or, and more likely.

 

You deploy the squad, see if they all fit. Then, once they've landed, roll the tests, and remove any models who have failed, and only have one would.

 

Both events wouldn't happen in the same instance, they're separated.

 

IMO, anyway.

[shatter]

..uhm.. a Libby DN with wings of sanguinius moves as if it had a jump pack... yet does not have a jump pack, nor is it jump infantry in the relevant phases. 'As if' here doesn't equal 'same as'. I know it's a vehicle, however the rule doesn't gift consequences beyond the single set of effects outlined. By the same token, the disembarking unit of the stormraven is not deep striking from reserves... etc.

 

There'll be two sides to this particular part of the argument for some time methinks.

[Grey Mage]

..uhm.. a Libby DN with wings of sanguinius moves as if it had a jump pack... yet does not have a jump pack, nor is it jump infantry in the relevant phases. 'As if' here doesn't equal 'same as'. I know it's a vehicle, however the rule doesn't gift consequences beyond the single set of effects outlined. By the same token, the disembarking unit of the stormraven is not deep striking from reserves... etc.

 

There'll be two sides to this particular part of the argument for some time methinks.

Negatory. Nothing about reserves is mentioned in the locator beacons description.

[Corby]

Just thinking on army ideas.

 

Is there something stopping a player from moving a Stormraven with a locator beacon flatout 24", and disembarking a Sterngard squad + priest out the back using skies of blood within 6" ( thus avoiding the scatter due to the beacon) and slagging something?

 

Scratch that. Mis-read the skies of blood rule.