Baal Predator Tank Variations...

[CJ Grub Killer]

Hey Guys

 

Im new to 40k and chose Blood Angels for my first army. Ill be posting up my first list very soon on the List section on this forum.

But what Im having trouble with is the Baal Tank, Im unsure what weaponry to give it. Im going for an Infantry killer so im guessing...

-Flamestorm Cannon

-Side Flamers

 

Any suggestion will be much welcome! :(

 

Thanks Guys

 

CJ

[DarkGuard]

Hello, and welcome to B+C, I hope you enjoy your time here :D.

 

Now I'm a Codex: Space Marines player, but I love Baal Preds, and I know what they can do. When it comes to infantry killing, they are near unparalleled, no matter what weapon load outs you give it, and all are viable. The assault cannon and heavy bolters give you range and weight of fire, while the flamers make you deadly up close and make it so that no one can hide from your Pred.

 

Now the choice of Baal Pred I feel really depends on the rest of your army. Are you running a close combat army, full of lots of Assault Marines on jump packs or in Land Raiders or Rhinos? Or are you fielding lots of Redeemers? If the answer is yes, then I'd stick with the assault cannon and heavy bolters. This set up will give you range, and remember as a fast vehicle you can move 6" and fire everything, and still move 12" and fire a weapon if you want to get those juicy side armour shots. If your fielding a couple of Redeemers, even more reason to stick to the assault cannon as you have enough flamestorm cannons.

 

If, however, the rest of your list isn't quite assaulty, or you've got other forms of long-range firepower, the flamestorm cannon can be good. It's especially good if run into a lot of Marines at your LGS, as you can kill them on 2s with no cover save. To get the best use of this weapon it's generally a good idea to Outflank the Pred, letting it get in close from an unexpected angle. With its 12" movement it can get to where it needs to be and let rip with those flamers. Or stick a couple of heavy bolters on it and advance slowly, hugging cover, using the flamestorm cannon when you can.

 

Personally I wouldn't use the heavy flamers with the flamestorm cannon. Yes you can fire all your flamers, but with the being sponsons its unlikely that you'll get good shots with both of them. Furthermore, generally if you're trying to line up a good shot with the flamestorm cannon you're probably looking to move around 12" anyway to get off a good shot. Actually, I wouldn't use the flamers full stop, as with the assault cannon the heavy bolters will be more useful, allowing you to stay 24" away from your enemy and pepper them with 10 shots a round. However, I wouldn't run it with just a turret, as then one weapon destroyed result will nullify it.

 

That being said, I've limited experience with them, so take my advise as you like, but I know that if I start Blood Angels I'd love to use them myself, provided I don't play Flesh Tearers.

[Mezkh]

I'd go with either of two 'builds'.

 

-Assault cannon, Heavy bolters

-Flamestorm, no sponsons, Dozer blade.

[DarkGuard]

I'd go with either of two 'builds'.

 

-Assault cannon, Heavy bolters

-Flamestorm, no sponsons, Dozer blade.

 

I like those builds, the first one can reliably throw out a lot of firepower, while the second can either scout move into position or outflank, destroy a squad, scare your enemy and get him to divert a lot of killing power at your one tank. Have you used the second variation much? Because it seems to be a slightly watered down but somewhat more reliable Vindicator which can outflank. So it'll take a lot of firepower, ignore cover, but one weapon destroyed result and you've just got an armoured box on wheels, which is something I really dislike about my Vindicators.

[Mezkh]

I haven't used it much a all :D because I've been mucking around with Jump pack lists. I do have the 'Dakka Version'.

 

Vindicator is a good comparison. The potential is there for scaryness- you've got that scout 18" move followed by the 12" move, you can cover a lot of ground to land that Template quickly.

 

Invariably it's going to get destroyed - AV13 barely comes into it because generally because you're exposing your weak AV11 predator sides and AV10 to close combat, even if it's 6's to hit.

 

But at 120 points it's close to cheap and cheerful, also almost kind of like a super Heavy Flamer Landspeeder. And it acts as an immediate and dangerous threat that is difficult for some armies to ignore.

 

Biggest problem I think is the current Mech/reserve environment. It's a great trump to play if your opponent is setting up infantry firing positions with devies or whatever in heavy cover, but it really drops in usefullness vs fully meched armies or reserve armies where it can't maximise that threat from an early scout move.

 

Where the Vindicator can at least open some cans with it's weapon, yet gets really watered down by cover saves (and in 5th ed, cover is everywhere)

 

It would be a great compliment tank to take in an aggressive hybrid army where the aim is to put heavy pressure on the opponent's deployment zone from the first turn, and the army has some form of first turn can-openers in support (like razorbacks, drop podding melta, or the Heavy support preds, Stormraven, dakka dreds)

[Br0ther Rafen]

i have used the Flamestorm along heavy Bolter Sponsons, which gives me more Dakka Dakka!, i can survive glancing intact, and i found that usually after the flamestorm hits there isn't much to kill infront, which means that the HF's get wasted in my experiance, whereas bolters will kill everything at that range, and they can't take away wounds from the front to "dodge" them.

[CJ Grub Killer]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys it has really been helpful, Ive decided to go with the

-Flamestorm Cannon

-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

 

For my first list, but I was talking to a friend whos played for years and he said magnetise both weapons so I can sub each one in and out depending on the game type which seems like a good idea.

 

Thanks again guys :D

 

CJ

[DarkGuard]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys it has really been helpful, Ive decided to go with the

-Flamestorm Cannon

-Heavy Bolter Sponsons

 

For my first list, but I was talking to a friend whos played for years and he said magnetise both weapons so I can sub each one in and out depending on the game type which seems like a good idea.

 

Thanks again guys B)

 

CJ

 

A good and interesting choice, giving you some really good infantry firepower, while being able to threaten heavy infantry. Just remember that it will be a high priority target for your opponent with that very scary flamestorm cannon, I know I absolutely hate them and will do the best I can to get rid of them.

 

And your friend has the right idea, if you can magnetise the weapons. Also makes it easier to show a weapon destroyed result on your vehicle.

[Wildfire]

For my first list, but I was talking to a friend whos played for years and he said magnetise both weapons so I can sub each one in and out depending on the game type which seems like a good idea.

 

As far as I am concerned, all models should be magnatized.

[greatcrusade08]

i have used the Flamestorm along heavy Bolter Sponsons, which gives me more Dakka Dakka!, i can survive glancing intact, and i found that usually after the flamestorm hits there isn't much to kill infront, which means that the HF's get wasted in my experiance, whereas bolters will kill everything at that range, and they can't take away wounds from the front to "dodge" them.

 

Umm all shooting is resolved at the same time, therefore the side flamers will hit the same models as the flamestorm cannon (you place all templates before rolling wounds and whatnot).. casualties are taken off after all shooting has occured not after each individual weapon

[DarkGuard]

i have used the Flamestorm along heavy Bolter Sponsons, which gives me more Dakka Dakka!, i can survive glancing intact, and i found that usually after the flamestorm hits there isn't much to kill infront, which means that the HF's get wasted in my experiance, whereas bolters will kill everything at that range, and they can't take away wounds from the front to "dodge" them.

 

Umm all shooting is resolved at the same time, therefore the side flamers will hit the same models as the flamestorm cannon (you place all templates before rolling wounds and whatnot).. casualties are taken off after all shooting has occured not after each individual weapon

 

True, I didn't pick that up. Of course, the position of the side flamers does mean its unlikely that they'll hit all the models the flamestorm cannon can do, but they'll still hit a modest amount. I personally still prefer heavy bolters, else you might end up stuck in terrain which my mates Baal has done the last three games, too far away to do anything with your flamers.

[Morgernstein]

True, I didn't pick that up. Of course, the position of the side flamers does mean its unlikely that they'll hit all the models the flamestorm cannon can do, but they'll still hit a modest amount. I personally still prefer heavy bolters, else you might end up stuck in terrain which my mates Baal has done the last three games, too far away to do anything with your flamers.

 

my freind tried to flank my army with his baal, it came in on the wrong side, so i just fired a hunter killer missile at it from my imobilised wepaon destroyed rhino in the middle of the feild(the only think i had left to fire that turn, much jucier and much much more dangerous sanginary guard with 12") it immobilised it, and i just left it for the rest of the game, he insisted on shooting every turn with it however in an attempt to "look menacing"

 

but i digress it depends on who you are fighting, if you are playing a gun liney power armour opponent, i would always take a flamestorm as the look on their faces when 8 sternguard 3 servitors a techmarine and a tactical marine getting killed in one shot is quite good ;) (that has happened to me)

[d@n]

The flame storm cannon is what i would go for. outflank and burn up a devistator squad. no armour saves and no cover saves :P. Its deadly against gun line armys. I would consider giving it the heavy bolters aswell just to give it something to do when theres no one to flame. The dakka version is pretty good but with assault squads getting fast assault cannon razorbacks for next to nothing i wouldnt bother with the assault cannon version.

[DarkGuard]

There is a big problem with the flamestorm cannon however, mech. Against mech armies you have to Outflank it because otherwise it'll be destroyed quickly and is unlikely to do much damage as everything is in tanks. You are correct in saying it is brilliant against foot armies, but how many of them do you see?

 

I agree with you also that assault cannon Razorbacks are good, but there's a couple of things to consider. First, by the time you've given your squad a meltagun and maybe a power weapon you're looking at over 160pts, which is about 20pts more than the Baal Pred with assault cannon and heavy bolters, correct me if I'm wrong. Second, firepower. The Baal Pred with assault cannon and heavy bolters can move 6" and put out an overwhelming amount of heavy firepower, capable of wiping infantry squads out. Furthermore, it functions at a different range, and so therefore is lower down on the threat profile range of a flamestorm cannon. With a flamestorm cannon your opponent knows it will do damage, and will look to wipe it out asap. The fact that it easily shows side armour and gets in melta range means it won't be alive for a long time. The assault cannon has the luxury of sitting back a little, keeping side armour less exposed and being able to do its business with less fear of reprisal. And finally the assault cannon and heavy bolters have a much better shot at opening vehicles up, especially light vehicles. The scout move is more viable on this build as you can move it forward to get its assault cannon in range, then sit back and fire everything as everything else moves up. The flamestorm cannon is a bit of a one trick pony, the assault cannon is lasting.

 

Don't get me wrong the flamestorm cannon is brilliant, but it isn't hands down the best weapon. Every weapon has its drawbacks, including the assault cannon, and it comes down to what you want in your army. If you have lots of assault cannons already then go for the flamestorm cannons. If I ran Razorspam I would be using flamestorm cannons to flame everything that gets popped open. On the other hand, if I was running Raiderspam or Assault squad spam I would prefer the assault cannon for its range coupled with the natural speed of a Baal. There's no right answer in 40K, it comes down to what you need, and what you prefer. And I tell you, I certainly prefer the look of the assault cannon, much more menacing :P.