WTT Question

[Zzo]

Hello everyone.

 

For wolf tail talismans, if 2 characters that have them join a squad, and the squad is affected by a psychic power, do you get the 5+ save twice? I wouldn't think so, but I've seen a lot of people who have argued that you would, so I'm not sure.

 

I apologize if this has been discussed in another thread, couldn't find anything when I searched for it.

 

Thanks in advance.

Zzo

[Growler67]

I'm gonna say no. Reason is that if it's wargear on an IC, only one IC can join any one unit at any one time.

[Zzo]

I'm gonna say no. Reason is that if it's wargear on an IC, only one IC can join any one unit at any one time.

 

2 ICs can join the same unit to form a multi-character unit. pg 48 of the BRB

[wolvesoffenris]

The BRB is pretty clear that 2 IC's can join the same unit. By RAW, they both get to make their save against a power that affects the squad. Your gaming group can always choose to house rule it so they only get one save though.

[Growler67]

I beg pardon. Don't have my BRB handy and I must've recalled incorrectly. My bad.

[Grizwald714]

My personal opinion is yes but at every tournament I have gone to they say no. but Before that they always tell me I can't use my runic weapon save and the wtt because my opponents always like to disagree about that then the judge comes back latter after telling me I can't and say oh sorry my bad u actually u can take both and by then I'm usually in a combat where this comes up and right away they always say NO. But do u guys know where itsays in the rules that I can take both the runic weapon save and the wtt save so I can show them and don't always have to get the judges involved

[Grey Mage]

You cant use two psychic hoods or runic weapons against it, but you could use a psychic hood AND a runic weapon on it.

 

I dont see this being any different. So you get the one 5+ save to keep the unit from being affected, wich would be rolled after the 4+ to keep it from going off if you have a rune priest close enough, possibly followed by a 5++ from runic armor if it causes a wound.

[Spacefrisian]

Simple answer:

-Yes

 

Long answer:

Wolf tail talisman grants a save against psychic powers so you have 2 models with it so you get 2 saves.

 

For the nay sayers if i would face one of those next time and he shoots a whirlwind plate (or something with pizza delivery) at a unit ill just make 1 save instead of multiple. LOL

[old git]

The parallel argument concerns armour/invulnerable/cover saves (ie having to choose one or the other), which is where people who argue against WTT saves probably get their opinion from. However that's a single model having to choose. Multiple characters with the same wargear is a different barrel of ale altogether, and runic weapons and WTTs are two very separate items. Firstly the runic weapon can stop an enemy power going off altogether and secondly, if the weapon doesn't stop the power, the target of that power has a chance to resist it through their belief in the talisman. Two very different fluff mechanics there, I can't see the argument against it personally, but then I am a wolf player.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I don't understand this argument. The talisman effects the whole pack. Why do you need two saves?

[dswanick]

Hello everyone.

 

For wolf tail talismans, if 2 characters that have them join a squad, and the squad is affected by a psychic power, do you get the 5+ save twice? I wouldn't think so, but I've seen a lot of people who have argued that you would, so I'm not sure.

 

I apologize if this has been discussed in another thread, couldn't find anything when I searched for it.

 

Thanks in advance.

Zzo

I would say no to this question. I believe that a squad with two Wolf Tooth Talisman would only be able to try and nullify it once.

If a model with a Wolf Tooth Talisman, or the squad that he is with is affected by an enemy psychic power, roll a D6. On a roll of 5+ the power is nullified.

In the same way that the FAQ clarifies the Runic Weapon

Page 36, Runic Weapon, replace the fourth sentence with:

Furthermore, whenever an enemy model succeeds on a Psychic test within 24" of one or more models with a Runic Weapon, roll a dice – […]

As to the question of WTT and Runic Weapon, I would think that this might be a 'yes'. A psychic power within 24" of a RW would trigger the attempt to nulify it(prevent it from going off), and then any squad affected would try and use their WTT to nullify(ignore its affects on that squad).

[Aeddon]

They most certainly CAN use both WTT. To say otherwise is like saying that a squad hit by a demolisher cannon can only attempt one save against it.

 

And to clarify, the wording in the codex says that the WTT gives them a chance to nullify, it does not give them a save. It also says that whenever the model or unit he is in are affected they get that chance to nullify the power. Given that both IC's are a part of the unit being affected and they both have a WTT they will both get a chance to nullify the power.

[Grey Mage]

They most certainly CAN use both WTT. To say otherwise is like saying that a squad hit by a demolisher cannon can only attempt one save against it.

 

And to clarify, the wording in the codex says that the WTT gives them a chance to nullify, it does not give them a save. It also says that whenever the model or unit he is in are affected they get that chance to nullify the power. Given that both IC's are a part of the unit being affected and they both have a WTT they will both get a chance to nullify the power.

Your argument is self-defeating. Your example of the demolisther cannon and armor/cover saves is irrelevant because the WTT isnt giving them a save.

 

It is, as noted, giving a chance to nullify. And the rules for a Runic Weapon and/or Psychic hood also give a chance to nullify and are noted as not stacking wich each other.

 

2 WTT in 1 unit= 1 5+ to cancel it.

[Aeddon]

Your argument is self-defeating. Your example of the demolisther cannon and armor/cover saves is irrelevant because the WTT isnt giving them a save.

 

It is, as noted, giving a chance to nullify. And the rules for a Runic Weapon and/or Psychic hood also give a chance to nullify and are noted as not stacking wich each other.

 

2 WTT in 1 unit= 1 5+ to cancel it.

The demolisher cannon example was given to show an example of when more than one model rolls a dice against a single event, in this case a cover save vs. a wound. Admittedly this isn't a great example but it was the first that came to mind.

 

While the errata does cover Runic Weapons it does not cover the WTT which functions very differently. I can see where you are coming from and if I was playing you I'd be open to a discussion about whether it would work my way or yours but personally disagree with your conclusion.

 

Not trying to get into a hugh arguement here with anyone so I'm gonna leave it at that, my opinion has been stated.

[Grey Mage]

I do ask for a point of clarification. In what way to they function differently? Both are a straight roll to negate.

[dswanick]

Your argument is self-defeating. Your example of the demolisther cannon and armor/cover saves is irrelevant because the WTT isnt giving them a save.

 

It is, as noted, giving a chance to nullify. And the rules for a Runic Weapon and/or Psychic hood also give a chance to nullify and are noted as not stacking wich each other.

 

2 WTT in 1 unit= 1 5+ to cancel it.

The demolisher cannon example was given to show an example of when more than one model rolls a dice against a single event, in this case a cover save vs. a wound. Admittedly this isn't a great example but it was the first that came to mind.

 

While the errata does cover Runic Weapons it does not cover the WTT which functions very differently. I can see where you are coming from and if I was playing you I'd be open to a discussion about whether it would work my way or yours but personally disagree with your conclusion.

 

Not trying to get into a hugh arguement here with anyone so I'm gonna leave it at that, my opinion has been stated.

But each model is saving himself against the weapon, and as you mentioned - WTT is not a save. It protects the whole unit, not just that model.

As a counter-argument I would point out that if you have a unit with multiple WTT then that one roll IS giving each WTT model it's chance to nullify - it's just all done as a single roll of a die. The unit gets a chance to nullify, which it did, and both models are part of the unit.

[Wildfire]

I don't know that it's been clarified one way or the other. Until it's FAQed, I would discuss it with your opponents before your games.

 

I, personally, would say you get only one roll. This is based on the rules for Psychic Hoods and Runic Weapons not stacking. I would say you could roll a Psychic Hood, Runic Weapon, and WTT all against the same attack. However, this is only my opinion, and in no way is a firm ruling.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I don't understand this argument. The talisman effects the whole pack. Why do you need two saves?

 

Ok, now I get it(brain wasn't working). My vote is that each tali wearer gets a roll. I understand Wildfire's comment, however those are area effect defenses v/s model/unit defenses. That said, it is unclear enough where I'd be willing to roll off if we count it or not in a game.

 

 

As a counter-argument I would point out that if you have a unit with multiple WTT then that one roll IS giving each WTT model it's chance to nullify - it's just all done as a single roll of a die.

 

I agree with this.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

I, personally, would say you get only one roll.

 

This is my thinking as well. I am not going to make a rules based argument since they've been covered in here, and it is not clear cut anyways. One roll is fair, just as one Rune Priest psychic negation roll is fair.

 

I'd roll off if someone insisted on having two rolls.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

As to the question of WTT and Runic Weapon, I would think that this might be a 'yes'. A psychic power within 24" of a RW would trigger the attempt to nulify it(prevent it from going off), and then any squad affected would try and use their WTT to nullify(ignore its affects on that squad).

 

More than a might, it's a definite yes. For the reasons you mentioned. Two different mechanisms, at two different times.

[Zzo]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Since the argument keeps going back and forth, I'll probably just ask my local gaming group and other SW players what they think and what the ruling will be.

 

Thanks again.

 

Zzo