IA and Information (fluff)

[Tolek]

Greetings Battle-Brothers!

 

I have been working on a DIY chapter and upon reading the information that is provided in several locations and resources. I find myself somewhat confused on some of the information that seems to me contradictory of what other information is out there. I would like some help with what a person can DO to create a DIY chapter. According to GW it is ok for any player to create a chapter and use a codex that is of their liking, just change the name of the chapter and BAM, instant chapter! I know the fluff side of the house gets a bit of critism, but if GW has deemed it that you as a player can do whatever you want when creating a chapter. Is this the correct way to go about it, maybe maybe not.

 

There is alot of guides and player input on this but is there any real quams with what a player wants to do. Example would be the Brother with a Dreadnaught Chapter master, I have read several books and this makes anything very possible in the universe.

 

Is there an updated guide to a DIY chapter based on all the new stuff comming or are the rules just changing as there is debate whether a player can or can not do at that moment?

 

Another question I have is, I play Black Templars not on a level of you Veterans out there, but my question is most chapters are based on melee/close combat and only some are more ranged combat than others but there is very little choice as to what fighting style a chapter can have. The white scars are a chapter based on fast attack "hit and run" tactics according to GW. I love close combat fighting and I like the way the BT's group their squads, is there a problem with having the same concept for a DIY chapter with the squad make up?

[Brother Melice]

Hey there Tolek, and welcome to the forums.

 

The way GW is implementing on using codecies for a DIY chapter is you use the rules base and points values, th echaracter stats, but name them your own way, basically you proxy your newly made chapter for a rules set of another.

 

If you wish to take it a couple of notches up even still. You can come come up with a theme army, composed by using Codex Space Marines, restricting your self as you see fit with your made fluff.

 

You can say that your chapter uses primarly plasma cannons for their Heavy support, and comprise a list using that limitation...

you get the logic...

 

hope that helps a little :)

[Tolek]

That helps tremendously!

 

Essentially you can modify your chapter to fit any theme you have for it. So then how does the geneseed come into play? I have read alot of discussion of the forums about this and there seems to be "you can do this but not use this" is there a GW reference to the geneseed use?

[Ace Debonair]

Is there an updated guide to a DIY chapter based on all the new stuff comming or are the rules just changing as there is debate whether a player can or can not do at that moment?

More the latter, I think, although I'm not sure which 'new stuff' the DIY guide doesn't cover.

Can you think of any examples?

 

Another question I have is, I play Black Templars not on a level of you Veterans out there, but my question is most chapters are based on melee/close combat and only some are more ranged combat than others but there is very little choice as to what fighting style a chapter can have. The white scars are a chapter based on fast attack "hit and run" tactics according to GW. I love close combat fighting and I like the way the BT's group their squads, is there a problem with having the same concept for a DIY chapter with the squad make up?

No, that works alright.

There's a bit of a problem story-wise if you have BT successors or a BT training cadre (As far as I know, the High Lords of Terra want more codex chapters, so such a blatantly non-codex chapter wouldn't get that opportunity to spread it's influence to others), but making a chapter who develops a crusade mentality and goes on the warpath like the BT is perfectly fine. :D

 

That helps tremendously!

 

Essentially you can modify your chapter to fit any theme you have for it.

Yup. KingHongKong's Death Heads, for instance, started out as really blatant and obvious pirates. Then he gradually faded out the 'Arrrg, we be pirates' and replaced it with a more agressive, feral nature, underscored by the occasional nod to pirates.

 

So then how does the geneseed come into play? I have read alot of discussion of the forums about this and there seems to be "you can do this but not use this" is there a GW reference to the geneseed use?

Well. Space Wolves are out of the window because it's GW-confirmed they only had one successor, which basically exploded.

 

Traitor geneseed is unlikely to be used on the basis the apple won't fall far from the tree, and you'd basically get more chaos marines. It's not impossible to use it for a DIY chapter, but answering 'why use traitor geneseed when the loyalists are an option' from an in-universe perspective is a righteous pain and difficult even for truly skilled writers.

 

Apart from that, it's pretty much all fair game. :D

So long as you don't make Grey Knight successors, either. :)

[grandmaster lisander]

GW places in its own codex’s to basically use the rules they have set and just change the name and color, so in truth where is the line really? The limit is your own imagination, corny as it sounds. Depending on how fluffy you want your chapter to be or how in depth you want to go as long as the points are there, there is presidency for what you’re doing there really is no limit to what you can come up with. Many people forget that GW made this game to be customizable, so why be limited by other people? above all this is a game, and as such is meant to be fun, so go out and get crazy, make something no one has done or just do something cool with what’s already there.

[Brother Tyler]

Keep in mind that the guides you see here at the B&C, while very helpful and informative, are nothing more than peoples' opinions. In fact, some of the things that will get asserted quite rigidly are actually conclusions that members have drawn, but which aren't necessarily canon "fact" per GW. So while the advice you receive here is likely going to be good advice, take it with a grain of salt.

[Tolek]

Your right, BT do not have successor chapters because they recruit more space marines than any other chapter. So why create a successor chapter when we can just recruit more, that would be the non-codex part or would it be they don't conform to High Lords of Terra's way? If i remember right when the Inquisition needs a numbers report the BT's tell them "we got a thousand space marines". I don't think its so much they are non-codex, its more that GW says they are non-codex because they do not follow the standard recruiting procedures and their chapter operates under a different organisation. I could be wrong but thats how i interpreted the BT codex. With that said what makes it impossible for a BT successor chapter? Rogal Dorn's geneseed is not mutated, and neither is Helbrechts.

 

But, that doesn't mean I can't create a chapter with the same organisation and recruiting style, give them a homeworld, make them hate psykers, have them prefer close combat and basically call them Regal Templars. (not really the case but just sayin)

 

I was more curious as to all the information that is out there. Some people say this some people say that, were is the actual information that doesn't point to one way or the other based on opinion and interpretation.

 

I enjoy the good debates but where does it say by GW that you can not have a BT successor? thats what I want to know. I by all means am not tryin to start an argument, but rather clarification.

 

To clarify what I am tryin to attempt is with my chapter they do not have the standard recruiting procedures as the normal 10th company scouts, they have a recruit that gets in the fight with an "initiate" (for the example like the BT's) and they have bigger squads due to the preference for close combat instead of ranged combat. Thus they act like the BT's in close combat but are not the BT's. creating the rules and fluff is a bit heavy and an overdose makes it hard to determine what you can do. I read blurps and I determine that there really is not alot of fluff to really base what a player can and can not do. All the books written on the exploits of space marines make them appear to be humans with the combat overdrive of a terminator, kill. They also display inteligence and feelings in these books. Is there anything out on the High Lords of Terra and what they think? Like a "Standard Operating Procedures Does and Do not's" titled "This is how the High Lords of Terra want it"?

 

From my understanding, space marine chapters choose their fights and wars. High Lords do not dictate when and where the adeptus astartes will or will not fight. Am I wrong for wanting this clarification. I am looking for the rules set by GW for creating a chapter, if there is not one then why not support the community in their endeavors of creating their chapters. If GW says "no more space wolves" then ok, I get it.

 

Also is there an example of an IA to use to input all the chapter information, like a blank slate?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

but which aren't necessarily canon "fact" per GW.

 

In the same way as a certain Spoon... "There is no Canon" :tu:

[Tolek]

I know its a bit heavy for now but looking at throwing it out there for some advice......I present to all you Battle-Brothers my chapter. (paint scheme and emblem to follow.)

 

 

Eternal Stalkers

 

Origins

In response to imperial intelligence reports of tau and dark elder activity having increased in the outer reaches of the Segmentum Obscurus. The Adeptus Mechanicus, under imperial orders, used Rogal Dorn’s gene seed during the 26th founding, to found a new chapter, Eternal Stalkers. The chapter was supplied with a fleet from the mars reserves and sent out to protect the Imperium.

 

The Eternal Stalkers descended on a sector of planets in the Roth system. Imperial records show last contact with the Eternal Stalkers was near the planet Roth II, during a dark elder ambush in the sector. The Eternal Stalkers battle barge, Imperius Doxinatus, and fleet were attacked by a dark elder, and crashed on Roth II from heavy dark elder fire. They reportedly lost four companies and suffered a total of one companies worth of injuries. Much of the fleet was destroyed in the attack leaving the Eternal Stalkers in a dire situation, minimal communications with the Imperium forces and a world of little illumination and vicious creatures.

 

Homeworld

Roth II is a planet filled with rich vegetation and minerals but the sun does not shine as though it should on Holy Terra. The sun’s bright rays reflect off the nearby moon that illuminates the planet on a constant basis, There is no sun set or sun rise. The moon reflects on a unique algae that glows with an orange hue that provides the planet with a majority of its light, but where the algae is not, it remains overwhelmingly dark in those regions of the planet.

 

The creatures of this planet glow with this orange hue due to dietary habits of the planets life eating and sustaining life from the algae. The people of Roth II hunt the creatures and display this orange hue as well, a mystery that can only be explained by the dietary habits.

Over the years of inhabiting planet Roth II, the chapter used the remains of the fleet to craft a fortress in the crater which it created. Walls were constructed around the crater with defensive turrets emplaced and watch towers. The fortress became known as “The Crater” to the chapter. In the center of the crater is the original remnants’ of Imperius Doxinatus housing the armory, the chamber of secrets, and the chapter forges. The other fleet wreckages used for each company. The chapter reestablished supply lines with the Imperium to Roth II, but the Imperium supply fleets are at unease going to Roth II due to its darkness and strange glowing creatures. Imperial fleet captains have reported the chapter space marines are displaying an orange hue. The imperium seeing this as a possible mutation in the gene seed investigated determining the strange algae on the planet has somehow affected the skin pigmentation from consuming the planets vegetation and wildlife. The chapter believes they are the Emperor’s Chosen by this strange occurrence.

 

The tribes in this region utilize close combat fighting as it is a rarity that ranged technology is used due to it beyond their knowledge. What range weapons exist the tribesmen must earn the right to use them. The tribes have a keen ability to maneuver at night with increasing speed and agility. It sometimes appears as if they are trying to be stealthy. The tribes engage in combat for honor rather than over territorial squabbles. The chapter chooses its recruits from these tribes, and the tribes hold it a great honor to be chosen by the Eternal Stalkers.

 

Initiates are put to the test by entering a rival tribe’s perimeter to reach their champion. If they cross sentries they will silently eliminate them not to alert the rival tribe as they seek the honor of besting the champion in one on one combat. When the champion is reached the rival tribe is alerted and the remaining friendly tribes’ men engage the defending tribe. The battle between initiate and champion begins. The tribes continue to fight until the initiate or champion is defeated. If the initiate is successful he must fight his way out of the rival tribes’ camp with the trophy of his victory, the weapon of the fallen tribe champion.

 

Combat Doctrine

The Codex Astartes provides the Eternal Stalkers with its basis for them, but due to the incident in which the dark elder left them after their attack, has modified their doctrine. Not having the weaponry that the chapter once had they had to favor close combat. The tribes of planet Roth II have contributed to this change as they did not have the technology to support the use of ranged weapons therefore preferring close combat. To the tribes and the Eternal Stalkers close combat is how one receives honor and respect. This honor and respect is how a man is remembered for all time in the halls of the Chamber of Secrets.

 

It is an honor for a legion to be the first ones in a major battle. It is customary for the legion commanders to gather and have a dual amongst them for the right to lead their legion into the battle first. This dual is only called upon by the chapter master once a major conflict has been identified and the Eternal Stalkers respond. During the third Armageddon war the 2nd Legion commander, Ruinus, won the right to lead his legion to be first to shed blood for the Eternal Stalkers. Those that remain of the 2nd Legion bare a legion seal to honor those fallen and to represent they drew first blood in the conflict.

 

The Eternal Stalkers having limited supplies and ability to requisition heavy support vehicles, have a limited number of vehicles and ranged heavy weapons. The chapter Forge Master has been able to supply transports and some heavy weapons to the Eternal Stalkers through the chapter’s forges and factories within “The Crater”. The Eternal Stalkers are made primarily of assault and tactical marines favoring heavily on close combat. Being close combat experts, the Eternal Stalkers are extremely hard to kill, having toughness compared only to the mightiest of creatures. Eternal Stalkers convey a ferociousness, and fury on any battlefield wishing for a warrior’s death, and only the mightiest of the enemies’ warriors can kill them.

 

Dreadnaughts are rare to this chapter indeed and those that are hold a reverence that other Eternal Stalkers desire to attain in battle. Slumbering marines of a thousand battles, Dreadnaughts are only awoken in the direst of situations. Heavy weapons are available but only rarely do reports tell of seeing more than a few, with these being held in very high respect and treated as such within the chapter.

Imperial records and reports tell of the Eternal Stalkers displaying a stealthy approach to combat. These reports have been unfounded and upon one investigation the report stated…………..

 

“Their ability to move at night unhindered by any object or environment is baffling. The adaption of night living and fighting has given the Eternal Stalkers an unprecedented ability and advantage at night. During daylight they have devised a new visor implant for their helmets. This allows them to continue fighting as though it was night.”……Inquisitional Report during the 3rd Armageddon War 998.M41

 

These reports draw criticism from the other chapters and some inquisitional inquiries occur from time to time to investigate any new claims.

Chapter Organization

 

The Eternal Stalkers organize into Legions instead of companies. This allows them to recruit and have a Legionnaire train initiates in the ways of the Eternal Stalkers fighting style. A Legionnaire being a veteran of the chapter and an initiate being a newly inducted space marine. The Eternal stalkers do not believe in scouts as the different compositions of armor makes it difficult for them to adapt to daylight fighting. A squad is broken down to a Legionnaire and several initiates for combat with transport if available and mission dictates it.

 

Heavy support vehicles are utilized in the direst of situations. These heavy support vehicles mainly consist of Land Raiders and Predator battle tanks. Other Imperial heavy vehicles are not requisitioned that often and the chapter forge master accommodates vehicles as he and his servitors can produce them. Razorbacks and rhinos are supplied at a constant basis as these vehicles are the choice of the Legion Commanders to get his legion into the fight.

 

Dreadnaughts and Terminators fall under the 1st Legion being the more revered of the chapter. It is considered a great honor among the many marines to be given this honor and those granted the right to be fitted with Terminator armor is granted a seat within the Chamber of Secrets.

 

Chamber of Secrets is the chapter’s war council and mediators. These individuals make war decisions and have the record keepers track all conflict reports and intelligence disseminating the information to each Legion as necessary. All Legion and member history is recorded and banners are made in recognition to each event as a reminder to all Eternal Stalkers of the honor established by fallen Legionnaires.

 

Chapter Beliefs

The Eternal Stalkers believe that “First blood” is a great honor in combat. Thus leads them to a dual before any major conflict that ensues. This is not a dual to death but an honor dual that allows the winner to lead his legion into first before the other Legions. After the dual the commanders praise the winner and the chapter chaplain begins an incantation for battle to honor the winner and grant their legion the emperor’s light in attaining the “First Blood”. The Legion members then gain a Legion seal to represent the honor of a “First Blood”.

 

The Eternal Stalkers marines due to the skin pigment color change they believe they are the chosen of the emperor. This causes them to be hot tempered when someone questions their belief. In past events it has caused them some dishonor as one incident recalled a Legion commander was questioned by another adeptus astartes of another chapter and issued a challenge of rights. The legion commander in his anger killed the fellow space marine and thus bringing dishonor upon him and the Eternal Stalkers. The chapter master at that time sent the commander on a death oath penance, the commander has not been seen since. The remaining Legion was issued a penance badge to remind the Legionnaires of the error.

 

I can not figure out how to post the scheme for you all. ( i am not to forum savy)

[Aegnor]

Regarding the confusion as to what is 'canon' or permitted, you can do whatever you want. What the guys here have done is agree as a group on some broad guidelines as to what they think makes a viable addition to the fluff. If you want to take part in that process, sticking to those rules is part of the deal, but that's a completely different thing to coming up with some background and themes for you army for your own amusement - in which case the only limit is the army rules in the codex, and even then that's only the case if you actually want to game with the army.

 

Still, sharing the ideas is one of the best parts of the hobby. :lol:

[Tolek]

Ok, I got it thank you, all of you for help and responses. I posted my DIY Chapter but apparently i will have to actually post the idea for review and advice.

[Aegnor]

On first blush it looks well written - I'll have a closer look in a minute and try to give something a bit more constructive as feedback, and there are much much wiser heads than me on here! :lol:

[Tolek]

greatly appreciate it, i do apologize though i ended up posting my chapter on this thread and started another one lol, noob mistake i know chain me to a pillar and put 40mm bolter rounds in my direction.

 

Thanks, I worked on it a few times already to flesh out some of the detail to make it not so complicated as I have noticed you can definately get carried away with to much stuff.

 

Just looking for input as to the over all out look of the chapter.

 

One more thing, has anybody actually developed their chapter to go as far as points costs and make up of the actual chapter when it comes to fielding them on the battlefield?

[Brother Melice]

Looks great so far, nice progress... And you're getting feed back, which is always nice too... SO CONGRATS!

 

Don't worry about making mistakes on posting, I still can't figure out how to do some things on this site)))

One question thou, as I could not understand it clearly, when you asked about basing a DIY chapter on an existing codex chapter, was it for gaming purposes or a general fluff???

 

 

But it looks like you have a nice background idea for a very flavorful army.... make the most out of what you choose to work with and it will be a lot of fun on the table!

[Tolek]

Its more for game play, can you use a specific codex for your DIY chapter? That would probly depend on who your playing though right? lol

[Espada Azul]

I'm surprise that we got this far without even a mention of the Liber Astartes DIY Guide OR the Octaguide .

 

Before we begin, do take note that while Liberites seem to be fussy about the shared background we use for our DIY Chapters, a lot of what you find bandied-about here are ideas that many of us agreed makes the most sense in the Warhammer 40k universe, as we understand it. As such, it is not the be-all or end-all in explaining the creation of Chapters, but a baseline that one could refer to so that one's creation doesn't break, well, the border of disbelief (which stuff like Lost Legions and Female Marines tend to do on a regular basis). So, please read the guides. They'll help you a lot. And prevent a lot of heartache.

 

This said, I do hope you're ready to take the criticism that some of the folk here can dish out. Do things right and who knows? Maybe someday your creation might end up in the map I have linked in my signature, like other Liberites before you.

[Light Warden]

As a similar question, is it possible for another space marine chapter to have a psyker focus, fluff-wise, without being a grey Knights successor, which is obviously not supported. Or is this idea in too much conflict with the Nikea decision.

[Plague Angel]

I enjoy the good debates but where does it say by GW that you can not have a BT successor? thats what I want to know. I by all means am not tryin to start an argument, but rather clarification.

 

Seeing as the Black Templar are so uncontrollable, it's highly unlikely that the High Lords would call for a successor to be made. They really like the Ultramarines, those High Lords.

 

However! One thing I don't really hear about that often in DIY circles is the nature of the BT actually lends itself pretty well to fluff writing. If you like the Black Templar's fluff and want to use their codex, but also want to write your own story for your personalized army — make your own crusade. Name your Black Templar marshal, write why they got together and why they were commissioned. The Black Templar have enough numbers that they can sustain fluff written about a group within the Black Templar. You can even come up with your own heraldry — you should still paint your guys black of course, but you'll have some leeway with symbology in your banners, on your vehicles, and so on.

 

So no, it's not likely that either the High Lords or the BT themselves would even want a successor chapter, the BT are 1) huge and 2) everywhere and 3) have lots of semi-autonomous fleets operating under that one large banner.