Decoy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 True enough! (As a for-instance, I just rolled up 120 Bolter shots and dropped 23 termies using my own rolling luck for armor saves. Hit with 97, wounded with 68.) However, that's neither here nor there. The point is, DA is now dead-ard, and I'm glad the slackers are finally getting out of our Dex to get their jollies. :) I'm actually looking forward to playing against a DA opponent again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2617909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 actually I was wrong it is more like 7 dead termies with 120 shots. But your 2+ save rolling is horrible, 68 wounds is 11 termies dead on odds rolling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2617925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 But your 2+ save rolling is horrible, 68 wounds is 11 termies dead on odds rolling. Aye, that might be the curse of my good rolls. I can't make a 2+ to save my life; I only have like three of 'em in my army, on Lone Wolves for the FNP. I'll make the 4+ FNP all day, but the 2+ armor? Damn near never. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2617927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I have that problem with 3+ saves, On my DW army I have always been able to make 2+ saves or 5++ saves, but when I run regular marines they seem to die in droves. (Maybe I shouldn't be happy about the new storm shields.) But I'll take them, especially on the feel no pain terminator command squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2617932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 As a thought, now that the DA have a shiny new update, how many "Loganwing Counts As Deathwing Because It Fits My Army Better" armies do you think will end up being repainted and resculpted? It's a shame that such things aren't readily-available knowledge. I could do for a good laugh. :) Quickedit: Even moreso, how many DA folk now have to change their lists to get all the goodies? I heard in the DA forum that one guy has a tourney tomorrow and he wanted to change his list from a Counts-As to true DA, but couldn't because lists had to be submitted. It's stories like that which get me all warm and fuzzy on the inside (as opposed to the outside.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2617942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Wolf Guard can still take guys who are considerably cheaper plus have access to Thunder Wolf, Long Fangs and trusty Landspeeders. Logan himself is also a fantastic fellow when the two sides clash in melee. They may have the fantastic advantage of the best value melee units in the game, but we can do what they cannot. We will pack more fire onto them and have many allys for our termies, not to mention our counter charge, the ability to give Logans squad preferred and Living Legend to pile on even more attacks during the melee phase. I am glad for them to recover their eliteness, but I am conferdent that they won't out Wing us! As the Grey Anvil of Fenris we will have victory! I imagine it will be tough for normal wolf varients though, only time will tell. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2617950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Wolf Guard can still take guys who are considerably cheaper plus have access to Thunder Wolf, Long Fangs and trusty Landspeeders. Logan himself is also a fantastic fellow when the two sides clash in melee. They may have the fantastic advantage of the best value melee units in the game, but we can do what they cannot. We will pack more fire onto them and have many allys for our termies, not to mention our counter charge, the ability to give Logans squad preferred and Living Legend to pile on even more attacks during the melee phase. I am glad for them to recover their eliteness, but I am conferdent that they won't out Wing us! As the Grey Anvil of Fenris we will have victory! I imagine it will be tough for normal wolf varients though, only time will tell. ^^ Bah, nothing is "tough" for Wolf-varients. We're dead 'ard! Although generally, you're right. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2617956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 That was me actually who would have played dark angels (ravenwing) instead of Codex marine bikes, if I had seen the FAQ prior to submitting my list, I resisted swaping codices for a long time (I only have used the Sm dex for about a month) and then only because I special characters were disallowed at my LGS, so I could not run my RW army (or DW for that matter) so I began using codex SM for my army just so it would be legal. At which point I found that I like having a decent codex, instead of always playing at a disadvantage. So it is nice to know that i can happily return to playing the DA book and still have a shot at highly competitive tournies. It is going to be a bit of a pain updating my armies though (I only used to have one TH/SS guy in my whole DW army, because in general they were not worth it before.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2617990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 That was me actually who would have played dark angels (ravenwing) instead of Codex marine bikes, if I had seen the FAQ prior to submitting my list, I resisted swaping codices for a long time (I only have used the Sm dex for about a month) and then only because I special characters were disallowed at my LGS, so I could not run my RW army (or DW for that matter) so I began using codex SM for my army just so it would be legal. At which point I found that I like having a decent codex, instead of always playing at a disadvantage. So it is nice to know that i can happily return to playing the DA book and still have a shot at highly competitive tournies. It is going to be a bit of a pain updating my armies though (I only used to have one TH/SS guy in my whole DW army, because in general they were not worth it before.) Whoa, dude. While the rest of what you said is interesting... Your LGS -disallowed- special characters? What kind of lameosity is that, living back in 3rd and 4th edition? What was their justification? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2617996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Well they were running games at 1k points with lots of new players, so I guess they did not want Mephiston running around, they may allow them when the store moves up to playing higher point games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
farseerixirvost Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 SW Terminator armies still have much more flexibility than the DW. Sure, Deathwing can mix-and-match CC and Tactical types in one squad, but they are still a mix of CC and Tactical types. Meanwhile, SW can mix CC and Tactical in a single model. AC w/ Wolf Claw, Storm Shield with Chainfist, and etc. For that kind of flexibility, maybe the SW termies should cost more. And we all know when the DA get a new codex, their terminators will probably cost more AND Belial will check in at 300 points. Not an end to the SW Terminator armies, just a boost for all the Deathwing players who have stuck it out this long. (and now for a bit off-topic: if I ever meet the person who first used "Loganwing" on the internet, I'm gonna punch him in the teeth, such a stupid term) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 SW Terminator armies still have much more flexibility than the DW. Sure, Deathwing can mix-and-match CC and Tactical types in one squad, but they are still a mix of CC and Tactical types. Meanwhile, SW can mix CC and Tactical in a single model. AC w/ Wolf Claw, Storm Shield with Chainfist, and etc. For that kind of flexibility, maybe the SW termies should cost more. And we all know when the DA get a new codex, their terminators will probably cost more AND Belial will check in at 300 points. Not an end to the SW Terminator armies, just a boost for all the Deathwing players who have stuck it out this long. (and now for a bit off-topic: if I ever meet the person who first used "Loganwing" on the internet, I'm gonna punch him in the teeth, such a stupid term) Agreed, but what should we be called? We should attempt to use a different term of Loganwing. Logans Heros, Logan Hammer is all that comes to mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Such a formation was known as a speartip in the HH. Given the fluff, mine is known as the Spear of Russ :mellow: As to other, chapter - good for them. It's always better when the love is spread around and both the DA and BT deserve a proper revamp nether mind an quick update via a faq. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Belial now costs 130 points with a thunder hammer and storm shield. People are going to love him. I'm glad to see Dark Angels back on the same level (well not for marine based armies, but for terminator armies) as other players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearlessgod Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Such a formation was known as a speartip in the HH. Given the fluff, mine is known as the Spear of Russ :mellow: The Spear of Russ? I like it. Sounds like a great alternative name to me. ;) ~fearlessgod~ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulweih Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 The spear of Russ it is! Ale and roasted mastodon for brother Durfast Spiritwolf! Just had a game against my favorite opponent last weekend (he's a dress wearing crusader ) and I felt real pity for him not having a proper Stormshield. With his struggles I think he (and all those BT and DA players for that matter)deserves no less. Should raise the bar a little and make the games even finer, but it is not the end of the spear of Russ for me. We are the sons of Russ, there is no challenge we can't win! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loketh Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Man, this is awesome! I don't play DA at all and never intend to but they got molested so hard by their last codex that this can even be considered to be a thin layer of soothing balm to ease the burn. Does this mean the end of the loganwing? Hardly. This is just Jonson's boys getting back at doing best what they are supposed to be best at. Rejoice, Dark Angels! Here's to hoping you get even more candy! *raises ale stein* Hear hear! For the Emperor! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 There are still quite a few advantages to Logan Wing.. 1) The wide variety of Weapon loadouts, that no one else can do. PW+SS is a great cheap one. at 240 for a 5 man squad 2) Weapons no other TDA can use.. Frost Axe, Combi-Weapons, Wolf Claws. 3) CA is pretty big, Much better than Fearless (which if you run with a Wolf Priest you get anyways, and Oath of War > Litanies of Hate) 4) 5+ models in a unit, is a very big advantage, many times 5 Models is just not a large enough squad, ideally I like 8 5) Land Raider as Dedicated Trans 6) Logan >>> Belial, but should be for the cost 7) Ability to take Wolf Lords and WGBL's in TDA, more multi wound TDA. 8) SW Ven Dreads > DA Ven Dread The DA FAQ is great for DW... but there is still aways to go. Especially when you talk all TDA the numbers are not that different.. DA: 1740 pts (Unable to add more TDA) @ 32 models Belial IC in TDA 5x TH&SS + CML + Apoth + Standard 5x TH&SS + CML 5x TH&SS + CML 5x TH&SS + CML 5x TH&SS + CML 5x TH&SS + CML 5x TH&SS + CML Landraider makes it 1990 SW: 1997pts @ 26 Models Logan WPn TDA 5x TH & SS + CML 5x TH & SS + CML 5x TH & SS + CML 5x TH & SS + CML 5x TH & SS + CML 2x PW & SS + 2X TH & SS So Loganwing is not dead, the rumours have been exagerated.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 That was me actually who would have played dark angels (ravenwing) instead of Codex marine bikes, if I had seen the FAQ prior to submitting my list, I resisted swaping codices for a long time (I only have used the Sm dex for about a month) and then only because I special characters were disallowed at my LGS, so I could not run my RW army (or DW for that matter) so I began using codex SM for my army just so it would be legal. At which point I found that I like having a decent codex, instead of always playing at a disadvantage. So it is nice to know that i can happily return to playing the DA book and still have a shot at highly competitive tournies. It is going to be a bit of a pain updating my armies though (I only used to have one TH/SS guy in my whole DW army, because in general they were not worth it before.) Whoa, dude. While the rest of what you said is interesting... Your LGS -disallowed- special characters? What kind of lameosity is that, living back in 3rd and 4th edition? What was their justification? Its not that uncommon- my own LGS did this for two and a half years. Guess what? All the DA players, and alot of others left... and only returned once it was lifted. Sad, but it really took that long. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Only problem I have with the update is that they went through the trouble of updating their weapons, but didn't mention anything about the old psychic hoods. You know that all the DA players who were whining about not having the same wargear as regular marines will remain oddly silent when it comes to still have a psychic hood that covers the whole table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Only problem I have with the update is that they went through the trouble of updating their weapons, but didn't mention anything about the old psychic hoods. You know that all the DA players who were whining about not having the same wargear as regular marines will remain oddly silent when it comes to still have a psychic hood that covers the whole table. Well I play SWs and DA among others... and while unlimited range might be nice... DA still have leadership 9 libbies (unless this was updated)... which means against most things that cast psychic powers DA are at a disadvantage... Oh not to mention DAs huge range of awesome psychic powers that make the SW and BA psychic powers look like crap. Oh and people have brought it up on the DA forum but people are not complaining because it isn't hurting DA players and on that point it isn't broken enough (if broken at all) to cause issues for other players. SS/TH terminator heavy lists caused a few problems for death wing armies... they couldn't score but they could contest and for around the same points they would beat deathwing in combat due to having better equipment :S Hell I only ever take Ezkiel or a Grey Knight Grand Master counts as a DA libby if I need a psychic hood because I want ld10... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladislao Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 The problem is... i returned to play wolves beacuse of the loganwing.... beacuse i like terminator, it's a choice of heart... also if, in a lot of match, e felt the inferiority of my list.... now, knowing that there is another armythat can do everithing i do but better... well, make me feel depressed, maybe enought to turn my wolves to dark wolves... I was so depressed yesterday i draw against a realy clueless opponent... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 The problem is... i returned to play wolves beacuse of the loganwing.... beacuse i like terminator, it's a choice of heart... also if, in a lot of match, e felt the inferiority of my list.... now, knowing that there is another armythat can do everithing i do but better... well, make me feel depressed, maybe enought to turn my wolves to dark wolves... I was so depressed yesterday i draw against a realy clueless opponent... Are you joking? The we do alot of things that the C:DA cant. Our Terminators are more flexable. Period. You want it in the squad then you get it in the squad. Our Terminators can be cheaper with a base price of 33pts. Thats 10pts cheaper than a C:DA TDA. Our psychic defense is easily 3 times as good as theirs, whole table hoods or no. Wether or not you take use of it, we can put PA models in our units to bulk them up. Our Drop Pods are superior and we have the redeemer variant, wich C:DA does not. Our special character is better than their special character. Bjorn. Because Bjorn is made of awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearlessgod Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Correct on all points Grey Mage (as usual :rolleyes: ). The only thing I see people doing is talking about spamming TH/SS units, which limits them at range against nids, guard, orks and fast armies. They are concentrating on the parts of the FAQ which helps them most, making their lists one dimensionable and easy to plan for. Instead, they should be thinking about how they can use the "bump" to make their current lists better. Even with the FAQ, I still think our wolf guard lists are more flexible. BTW, take heart Ladislao. We can do everything they can, and look cooler doing it. ;) ~fearlessgod~ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Bjorn. Because Bjorn is made of awesome. What data and mind draining scientific calculations went into that one!?!!? :rolleyes: (but I totally agree). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219454-new-da-faq-the-end-of-the-loganwing/page/2/#findComment-2618996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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