New FAQ's out

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Well, that's one way of looking at it. GW's canon policy, however, is that all published material, whether it is in White Dwarf, a Codex, the BL or printed on the back of a fag packet is canon.

 

ROFLOL. Heh. Well that changes things a bit. Silly GW.

 

Anyway, this is where we probably stop this line of discussion and just accept that Wolf Guard can't have Jump Packs.

 

I thought they could, but they're overpriced, and they can't lead Skyclaws.

[Vassakov]

Anyway, this is where we probably stop this line of discussion and just accept that Wolf Guard can't have Jump Packs.

 

I thought they could, but they're overpriced, and they can't lead Skyclaws.

 

Thats what I meant... and yes, they are overpriced and generally I find Skyclaws to be... meh.

[LPetersson]

Q. Is a model that has suffered an unsaved wound, but

hasnʼt been killed, from Arjac throwing his Foehammer

reduced to initiative 1 until the end of the next player turn?

(p51)

A. Yes.

 

!!! Wow... I never saw that coming. I expected it not to count as a thunder hammer when thrown.

 

I will never understand why how this could possibly surprise anyone and why there was so much discussion about it.

It's a thunderhammer. Why does it stop being a TH when it's thrown?

Does it magically (Warpcraft? Heresy!) turn into a double rainbow or somesuch when Arjac throws it?

[Grey Mage]

Q. Is a model that has suffered an unsaved wound, but

hasnʼt been killed, from Arjac throwing his Foehammer

reduced to initiative 1 until the end of the next player turn?

(p51)

A. Yes.

 

!!! Wow... I never saw that coming. I expected it not to count as a thunder hammer when thrown.

 

I will never understand why how this could possibly surprise anyone and why there was so much discussion about it.

It's a thunderhammer. Why does it stop being a TH when it's thrown?

Does it magically (Warpcraft? Heresy!) turn into a double rainbow or somesuch when Arjac throws it?

Because RAW isnt always sensical LP. Seriously, it just doesnt always work that way.

 

Just look at the assault cannon variants weve had these last few years.

[Wildfire]

Love the way they worded that whole thing about a WGPL and the Skyclaws...Hey GW..."DUH!!! big red fire truck!!!"

 

Huh? Am I just missing a reference? I don't see anything in there about skyclaws and WGPL at all!

 

If you believe 3rd Ed/5th ed. fluff. 2nd edition fluff had no limitations on Jump Packs. ( I assume this is the fluff you are referencing?)

 

I quite agree. I honestly don't much like the direction 40k fluff has gone in recent years.

 

So I just ignore it!

[Vassakov]

Love the way they worded that whole thing about a WGPL and the Skyclaws...Hey GW..."DUH!!! big red fire truck!!!"

 

Huh? Am I just missing a reference? I don't see anything in there about skyclaws and WGPL at all!

 

I believe that is the point; that if it was an accidental omission they would have errata'd it to allow us to take WGPL with a Skyclaw. Hence it's probably a deliberate omission.

 

I believe that Big Red Fire Truck is an Americanism for what we Brits refer to as either an "Elephant in the Room" or "missing the bleedin' obvious." :)

[wolfpack]

I believe that is the point; that if it was an accidental omission they would have errata'd it to allow us to take WGPL with a Skyclaw. Hence it's probably a deliberate omission.

 

I believe that Big Red Fire Truck is an Americanism for what we Brits refer to as either an "Elephant in the Room" or "missing the bleedin' obvious." :teehee:

Spot on mate...

 

and YES we are the only chapter ...the only army...in the entire game...who's Assault troops can't take the equivalent of a vet sergeant in the squad...go figure GW

[Sven Dragonfire]

Did I miss it? After several pages of discussion about " can you stick your Independant character with your scouts and outflank"... Please note Im not discussing it !!

I'm still waiting to find out How

Ragnar got nerffed

??

So did I miss it or did it never get answered??

 

Ragnar still seems fine to me. ?????

[Orphus]

Love the way they worded that whole thing about a WGPL and the Skyclaws...Hey GW..."DUH!!! big red fire truck!!!"

 

Huh? Am I just missing a reference? I don't see anything in there about skyclaws and WGPL at all!

 

I believe that is the point; that if it was an accidental omission they would have errata'd it to allow us to take WGPL with a Skyclaw. Hence it's probably a deliberate omission.

 

I believe that Big Red Fire Truck is an Americanism for what we Brits refer to as either an "Elephant in the Room" or "missing the bleedin' obvious." ;)

 

I'm from Aus and haven't the slightest on any of those^^^sayings...apart from the last one....white elephants, do we mean?

 

 

I believe that is the point; that if it was an accidental omission they would have errata'd it to allow us to take WGPL with a Skyclaw. Hence it's probably a deliberate omission.

 

I believe that Big Red Fire Truck is an Americanism for what we Brits refer to as either an "Elephant in the Room" or "missing the bleedin' obvious." ;)

Spot on mate...

 

and YES we are the only chapter ...the only army...in the entire game...who's Assault troops can't take the equivalent of a vet sergeant in the squad...go figure GW

But we can give them a Wolf Priest, Wolf Guard, Wolf Lord (...if ya nuts ;)) and that's better than nothing atleast.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

The simplest solution is to pretend Skyclaws are not in the codex. They suck anyways, so I don't foresee any problems with my suggestion. Of course if you use them, and then complain they suck because of X, Y or Z, well then, like I said before, they suck, so you should be expecting that.

[Wildfire]

Love the way they worded that whole thing about a WGPL and the Skyclaws

 

Sooo... when you say the problem is in the wording in a response to a thread about a FAQ, I'm supposed to know you mean the fact that they didn't put any text in at all on the subject?

 

The simplest solution is to pretend Skyclaws are not in the codex. They suck anyways, so I don't foresee any problems with my suggestion. Of course if you use them, and then complain they suck because of X, Y or Z, well then, like I said before, they suck, so you should be expecting that.

 

Actually, with a WGPL Skyclaws would arguably be the best jumppack marines. Possibly you might go with BA RAS, but then you need a Priest to make get them up in the top ranks.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Actually, with a WGPL Skyclaws would arguably be the best jumppack marines. Possibly you might go with BA RAS, but then you need a Priest to make get them up in the top ranks.

 

Best on a cost-effective basis? I doubt it, but then again, I avoid Blood Claws in all forms like the plague, so maybe I am missing something.

[Grey Mage]

Actually, with a WGPL Skyclaws would arguably be the best jumppack marines. Possibly you might go with BA RAS, but then you need a Priest to make get them up in the top ranks.

 

Best on a cost-effective basis? I doubt it, but then again, I avoid Blood Claws in all forms like the plague, so maybe I am missing something.

Assault Marines on the charge- same price- have 30 attacks hitting on a 4+ against most foes.

Same BCJPs with a WG have 44 attacks on the charge, hitting on a 4+ against most foes.

 

Additionally they can take 2 powerweapons of different types while an assault marine squad can only have one on the sarge. When you include a free flamer on the bloodclaws the price difference is maybe 15pts? For a 50% increase in sheer combat potential.

 

And theyre alot cheaper while still being effective compared the closest thing to them- the 300pts base Vangaurd squad with Jump Packs.

 

Bloodclaws arent bad, theyre just not as good as they were before... and GHs got a lil better and 6pts cheaper while the BCs got a point heavier.

[Orphus]

The simplest solution is to pretend Skyclaws are not in the codex. They suck anyways, so I don't foresee any problems with my suggestion.

 

Of course that's just your opinion, I quite like them. I don't have any but that doesn't stop me from seeing how, if used correctly, they can benefit an army. :yes:

 

Of course if you use them, and then complain they suck because of X, Y or Z, well then, like I said before, they suck, so you should be expecting that.

If this is down to personal experiences when using them try using different tactics, more of a support role. Ask wether they fit into what you want your army to be etc. If this is instead you being childish I suggest you grow up.

Not many people would use a unit 'expecting' it to 'suck'. I could take my comments further but I'll instead take some steps to diffuse myself before I explode :), and let you work out some things for yourself.

 

 

Actually, with a WGPL Skyclaws would arguably be the best jumppack marines. Possibly you might go with BA RAS, but then you need a Priest to make get them up in the top ranks.

 

Best on a cost-effective basis? I doubt it, but then again, I avoid Blood Claws in all forms like the plague, so maybe I am missing something.

Assault Marines on the charge- same price- have 30 attacks hitting on a 4+ against most foes.

Same BCJPs with a WG have 44 attacks on the charge, hitting on a 4+ against most foes.

 

Additionally they can take 2 powerweapons of different types while an assault marine squad can only have one on the sarge. When you include a free flamer on the bloodclaws the price difference is maybe 15pts? For a 50% increase in sheer combat potential.

 

And theyre alot cheaper while still being effective compared the closest thing to them- the 300pts base Vangaurd squad with Jump Packs.

 

Bloodclaws arent bad, theyre just not as good as they were before... and GHs got a lil better and 6pts cheaper while the BCs got a point heavier.

And remember how people take Long Fangs now ;). Also I think the MotW for the skyclaws is a bit odd...

*Skyclaw Svern goes bezerk in mid-air and losses control of his jump pack landing faculties as he morphs into a slavering beast who is only slightly aware of the fact he is, in fact flying through the air at break-neck speeds* an excerpt from the humorous tale: The Calamitous Saga of Svern the Skyclaw. Another power weapon would of been better, or fancy gun.

[Sarapham]

And remember how people take Long Fangs now :lol:. Also I think the MotW for the skyclaws is a bit odd...

*Skyclaw Svern goes bezerk in mid-air and losses control of his jump pack landing faculties as he morphs into a slavering beast who is only slightly aware of the fact he is, in fact flying through the air at break-neck speeds* an excerpt from the humorous tale: The Calamitous Saga of Svern the Skyclaw. Another power weapon would of been better, or fancy gun.

 

 

No, he is still just a bit more badass than the rest, Mark of the Wulfen does not entail turn into a Wulfen on the fly. (Pun not intented)

[Wildfire]

Two power weapons plus MotW makes for a pretty deadly squad, plus 33% more attacks on the charge. All for the same price as a normal marine squad. That seems pretty good to me.

 

And even if they did still suck, I certainly wouldn't say they always did. Back in 2nd, everyone filled up with BC with jumppacks and Long Fangs (you didn't have troop selections back then, but you did have to spend at least 25% of your points on infantry) because they were the best buys of any SM 'dex.

[thor1234]

Did I miss it? After several pages of discussion about " can you stick your Independant character with your scouts and outflank"... Please note Im not discussing it !!

I'm still waiting to find out How

Ragnar got nerffed

??

So did I miss it or did it never get answered??

 

Ragnar still seems fine to me. ?????

 

Ever since I picked up on this point Ive been waiting for a response too......

What exactly has been Nerffed??????

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

Er, well... Ragnar's been nerfed because he don't get no furious charge with his counter attack any more (can't remember whether he used to get the insane bravado, but either way, there ain't no more o'that either). So yeah. He's now forced to charge (poor guy... so out of character for him...) if he wants to be really, properly badass.

 

It is a slight disadvantage, granted, but no big deal if you ask me. One thing that does work beautifully is getting your GH out in front of assaulty troops, rapid firing bolters and plasma guns into them and then dare them to charge, reasonably secure in the knowledge that your grey hunters will still count as charging for (almost) all intents and purposes. That doesn't work with ragnar, but then he should be with Blood Claws anyway because it's fluffy. And those buggers weren't the ones you'd want sitting back shooting anyway.

[stinkenheim]

The thing is, you've never been allowed to use furious charge with counter attack apart from a very brief window offered by an older FAQ which got changed almost immediately.

The confusion came down to poor wording when counter attack said you got +1 attack exactly as if you had charged. It was obviously meant to be just an additional attack but they worded it poorly.

It's the same reason people argued that blood laws could gain +2 attacks on the counter, something which again can't he done now.

 

I really fail to see how this single fact has led to claims that Ragnar is somehow nerfed.

But hey, I also fail to see why people would place him in a blood claw unit when grey hunters receive far more of a boost by his presence.

The fact that he is savage and impetuous doesn't make it fluffy for him to go around with bloodclaws. Far mor fluffy that he be accompanied by wolf guard or at the least grey hunters. Let the wolf priests lead the younglings.

 

+edit+ this isn't an attack on the previous posters view points btw, merely a generalised view.

[Vassakov]

The thing is, you've never been allowed to use furious charge with counter attack apart from a very brief window offered by an older FAQ which got changed almost immediately.

The confusion came down to poor wording when counter attack said you got +1 attack exactly as if you had charged. It was obviously meant to be just an additional attack but they worded it poorly.

It's the same reason people argued that blood laws could gain +2 attacks on the counter, something which again can't he done now.

 

I really fail to see how this single fact has led to claims that Ragnar is somehow netted.

But hey, I also fail to see why people would place him in a blood claw unit when grey hunters receive far more of a boost by his presence.

The fact that he is savage and impetuous doesn't make it fluffy for him to go around with bloodclaws. Far mor fluffy that he be accompanied by wolf guard or at the least grey hunters. Let the wolf priests lead the younglings.

 

Stinkenheim is right - any perceptions of a Ragnar "nerf" is wrong. He should never have been able to gain Furious Charge and Counter Attack together, the same as any other Codex. Even without, he is still a lethal character and well worth a look. Furious Charge and Saga of the Warrior Born is a potent combination and he and a few mates can quite happily roll up a flank of most armies. My preferred build, were I going to use him (Grimnar and Njal are more my flagon of mjod) would be in a Crusader with 5/6 TDA Wolf Guard, Frost Blades, Lightning Claws and Thunder Hammers at the ready. A true Deathstar of a unit.

 

But yes, if Ragnar is leading Blood Claws you're doing something wrong - his buff is only useful 1/3 of the time as they get a flat +2 on the charge and if you get a 1 on the D3 extras, you override the Blood Claws special rule. So why? ;) Go with a Wolf Priest. Oath of War on 14 Blood Claws and a Pack Leader, prepare to watch the enemy cry.

 

EDIT: Misrembered FAQ, stands corrected below!

[stinkenheim]

Actually the bloodclaws will always gain +2 attacks due to their berserk charge rule. Rolling a 1 won't reduce that, but I personally think other units will get far more from him as you get an increase in your attacks 2/3 of the time as opposed to 1/3... Plus grey hunters have wolf totems meaning Ragnar can be made even nastier, resulting in more initial kills meaning more from saga if the warrior born next turn...

 

I think this FAQ is a very good update and deals with the vast majority of queries. The one that honestly surprised me was arjac's hammer, I really thought that would go the other way.

Still there isn't really any issues they missed and it's great to get a regular update on most of the faqs, it at least makes us think they care.

[Thunderhawk3015]

Umm, actually, you don't override the special blood claw rule. FAQ p4 left hand side about midway down covers that ;)

 

Edit: Dang, stinkenheim beat me too it

[The Son of Russ]

I am annoyed that Ragnar can be instant killed still, it really annoys me. For his points cost him and Njal should be able to withstand being instant killed by weapons double their toughness, and only be instant killed by force weapons. They are supposed to be the strongest characters of the space marines after all.

[stinkenheim]

The thing is Ragnar is very killy and devastating on the charge as his fluff supports. However he isn't the toughest marine ever, in alot of the novels he survives only because of his tenacity and reflexes.

Njall is one of the mist potent psykers in the imperium, his defences capabilities are higher than any other psyker in the game and his selection if powers is amongst the most balanced out there. Plus he's got very good survivability when in terminator armour.

Neither in my opinion need eternal warrior, not everything in the game needs to be unkillable, especially not when you consider everything rise those models are capable of doing.

[Vassakov]

I am annoyed that Ragnar can be instant killed still, it really annoys me. For his points cost him and Njal should be able to withstand being instant killed by weapons double their toughness, and only be instant killed by force weapons. They are supposed to be the strongest characters of the space marines after all.

 

Erm... what? Eternal Warrior is supposed to represent models that are so unimaginably tough that convention weaponry is a mild inconvience, models who have unearthly powers or the patronage of higher beings. If anything, there is too much EW in the game at the moment, particularly in MEq lists.

 

Ragnar and Njal are not by any means the "strongest characters of the Space Marines." Dante, Mephiston, Lysander, Helbracht, Calgar? All are arguably better candidates for EW.

 

More arguably, EW ought to be limited to the toughest of Monstrous Creatures (C'tan, Wraithlords, Hive Tyrants, Daemons) or inhuman beings (Necron Lords, Farseers, Abbadon and Typhus maybe.) Not any old Marine, who is simply very, very hard by normal human standards.