Lord Frost Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 So after my latest game with a friend who is also just getting to know the rules with me, we came across a couple of things that we can't seem to clerify with the rule book. So if you guys with your infinite wisdome could help me out that would be greatly apreciated. 1. I had my long fangs in the woods and he shot at them with his Vindicator, he wounded three of them and I took my 4+cover save, he said that he had seen in the rules that dimolisher cannons don't allow cover saves, is this correct? because if so i will be adding one or two to my list. 2. when shooting at a vichicle that is behind a small wall, how close to wall do you need to get a cover save, or is it just the fact that you are shooting over a wall therefore you get the cover save. 3. And this is more of a tictic rule, but we played dawn of war set up and i had read of guys putting there empty troop rhinos on the board 6" in so that on the first turn there troops can move on embark in the rhino and then move 12", my friend argued that i'm not putting my two troops actually on the board that way, what is the rule on that? Thanks in advance for all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 1. No, it is not correct. Ordnance Barrage *wich the vindicator is not* count the hole of the template as the 'source' for line of sight when it comes to cover saves, and this can cause some confusion for people. 2. Neither. The only question is how much of the vehicle can you see? As per the obscured rules in the vehicle section- pg. 62. 3. It is legal. Pg. 66, paragraph 4. *the second bullet*. That being said it is unlikely to win you many friends. *shrugs* some groups will be more ok with this tactic than others, but it is legal in any case. In fact, you could even put them 7.5" in and do the same thing- as you only have to be able to move within 2" of the transport to embark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Frost Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Sorry still a little confused on vindicator cover save question, am I understanding you correctly that i do get my saves? and what did you mean by "ordinance birrage, which it is not" thanks again. sorry for my confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 There are Ordnance weapons, and Ordnance Barrage weapons. Here are two examples: The vindicator's gun is an Ordnance weapon[p.58], and so fires "straight shots." If you're in cover, you'll get your cover saves against it. The whirlwind's rocket's are an Ordnance Barrage weapon[p.32 & 58], and so can fire "lobbing shots" in addition to their "straight shots." When the "lobbing shot" lands, you determine cover from the center of the blast marker instead of the point of view of the firer. Thus, if your men are hiding behind a wall, a Barrage weapon can land behind the wall too, denying your cover saves. 1. I had my long fangs in the woods and he shot at them with his Vindicator, he wounded three of them and I took my 4+cover saveHowever, forests/woods are Area Terrain[p.22], and so you'll always get cover save unless there's a special rule that denies it (like flamers, incendiary rounds, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Frost Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Thanks, I apreciate that, my buddy just reminded me of one more question that we had. if my grey hunters shoot a razorback with there meltagun and destroy it, can i then assualt an enemy squad that is close by, but did not get out of the razorback due to the destroyed result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Thanks, I apreciate that, my buddy just reminded me of one more question that we had. if my grey hunters shoot a razorback with there meltagun and destroy it, can i then assualt an enemy squad that is close by, but did not get out of the razorback due to the destroyed result. No. you can only assault what you shot at with the exception that you can assault a unit that was in a transport you destroyed. You can't destroy the transport then assault some different unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 3. And this is more of a tictic rule, but we played dawn of war set up and i had read of guys putting there empty troop rhinos on the board 6" in so that on the first turn there troops can move on embark in the rhino and then move 12", my friend argued that i'm not putting my two troops actually on the board that way, what is the rule on that?What's the point of this? Couldn't you just deploy the troops in their dedicated transport 6" from the board edge and then move them 12" in Turn 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 3. And this is more of a tictic rule, but we played dawn of war set up and i had read of guys putting there empty troop rhinos on the board 6" in so that on the first turn there troops can move on embark in the rhino and then move 12", my friend argued that i'm not putting my two troops actually on the board that way, what is the rule on that?What's the point of this? Couldn't you just deploy the troops in their dedicated transport 6" from the board edge and then move them 12" in Turn 1? Well you can do it with 2 Rhinos this way rather than one 18 inches on and the other 12, assuming you wanna zoom off ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Because in Dawn of War you can only deploy 2 troops units, not 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 huh? Does a unit and it's dedicated transport count as two units if the unit is embarked in the transport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 1. I had my long fangs in the woods and he shot at them with his Vindicator, he wounded three of them and I took my 4+cover save, he said that he had seen in the rules that dimolisher cannons don't allow cover saves, is this correct? because if so i will be adding one or two to my list. The Demolisher allows cover saves. As an asside: Ordnance Barrages also allow cover saves, but getting the save is dependent on the location of the center of the blast, not the direction of the firer. Any unit in area terrain gets its cover save against barrage weapons regardless of the direction of the center of the hole. (BRB, Pg.32) huh? Does a unit and it's dedicated transport count as two units if the unit is embarked in the transport? Yes, the unit and its dedicated transport are two unit. A 9-man SM tactical squad, its dedicated Rhino, and an attached IC would count as two troops and an HQ - fulfilling you DoW deployment requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 huh? Does a unit and it's dedicated transport count as two units if the unit is embarked in the transport? Yes, because a rhino is also a unit. 1 Choice, 2 units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RC71C FOXX Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Does that mean that if you purchased a dedicated transport for an HQ unit you could not place it and it's unit on the table on the first turn, e.g. a command squad with a razorback? (the IC deploying with a seperate squad in reserves) Would you have to place the unit and then bring on the razor in the next turn, embark, then wait a turn, then drive off? FOXX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Does that mean that if you purchased a dedicated transport for an HQ unit you could not place it and it's unit on the table on the first turn, e.g. a command squad with a razorback? (the IC deploying with a seperate squad in reserves) Would you have to place the unit and then bring on the razor in the next turn, embark, then wait a turn, then drive off? FOXX Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 alternitively you could place the razor back, have the command squad come in on the first turn, embark and drive off. it will give you some extra travel distance than. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 or instead you could deploy the razorback 6 inches in. then move your command squad in on the first turn and embark them, and then zoom off. bah beaten by frosty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 huh? Does a unit and it's dedicated transport count as two units if the unit is embarked in the transport? Yes, because a rhino is also a unit. 1 Choice, 2 units. I still don't get it. If a rhino, Razorback etc. is a separate unit, isn't it a Dedicated Transport Selection instead of a Troop Selection? As such you shoudn't be allowed to deploy it before turn 1 at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 An Infantry Platoon consists of three units, at a minimum: the command squad and two infantry squads. However, they all take up a single Force Organization Choice. This is the same thing, wherein a rhino and its tactical squad are two units for one choice. There is no FOC slot for Dedicated transports, it's HQ, Elites, Troops, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 huh? Does a unit and it's dedicated transport count as two units if the unit is embarked in the transport? Yes, because a rhino is also a unit. 1 Choice, 2 units. I still don't get it. If a rhino, Razorback etc. is a separate unit, isn't it a Dedicated Transport Selection instead of a Troop Selection? As such you shoudn't be allowed to deploy it before turn 1 at all. Its a transport chosen as part of a troops selection. If it was taken for a command squad it would be an HQ selection- some tournaments give extra points for killing an HQ unit, and this includes the command squads rhino! Similarly a Raider taken as a transport for some terminators is an elites choice.... not a HS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Ah found it. Dedicated Transports are considered troops, if they are bought for a unit of the Troops category. Still seems weird though, that the initial "patrols" need to be a lot smaller, if they are mechanized. With BA you could go Librarian with JP and 2 full RAS with JPs, but if you exchange the JPs or a rhino only one squad can be deployed initially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 A mechanized patrol is more likely to be a bit farther out, and/or on its own because it can get back to the main body of the force with greater speed. *shrugs*. Footsloggers are more likely to be skirmishers, sent there to tie up enemy forces. Either way, the example in the DoW deployment section is pretty clear ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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