douglas9521 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I read quite a lot of the novels but dont get white dwarf or other stuff so was just wondering why Curze turned traitor.I've always been interested in angron,corax,alpharius and curze.Angron was always gonna be on the otherside as a means to get revenge on the Emperor for being force to abandon his komrades.Corax remaind loyal(so looking forward to a book or something about him!)I've read legion so thats alpharius covered but would like to know what forced Konrads hand.Nothing i've read so far have given me any clues so any pionters on other books would be gratefully recieved.Cheers in advance P.S I know there are some audio books about these subjects but i havent listened to them as i have a feeling they'll be badly done.Im i way out with this fear? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Nothing i've read so far have given me any clues so any pionters on other books would be gratefully recieved.Cheers in advanceThe novel Lord of the Night covers several versions of why he turned. The best article on that (imho) is the Index Astartes article for the Night Lords. P.S I know there are some audio books about these subjects but i havent listened to them as i have a feeling they'll be badly done.Im i way out with this fear?My thoughts on the first one: here I hope it helps Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2618038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 He couldn't stomach the Emperor's hypocrisy so he turned traitor. By hypocrisy i mean, relying on the brutal but effective methods of Night Lords yet chastising them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2618048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewlay Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 He realised that he was just a terrifying pawn of the Emperor, his entire exitence is based on scaring people into believing. And then when he went off on the cursade he came back to realise that his planet and therefore new legion aspirant were just crooks and criminals. He turn against the Emperor as much as he turned against what he believed in. So he began on the road of self destrution and the destruction of his legion, because he had far sight maybe he saw that the heresy would fail and maybe he saw what would become of his legion, so he fought against the Emperor because that was the only way of destroying his legion. And finally; Dorn condemmed Cruze as a pychopath, as did the Emperor. Cruze had been ruthlessly killing people entire population in the name of the Emperor, the Emperor didn't like this approach to punishment and I believe detained him (Although I can't be sure). When Cruze let the assassin kill him, he did it for a point, to show the Emperor had used the same method as he did to alliminate a promblem. I hope that helps :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2618050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher441 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Well, the audio books are a bit hit and miss. I personally liked Raven's Flight, but thought Oath of Moment was too straighforward. I liked the Lightning Tower, and not The Dark King. Each to their own. Put it this way, listen to them once and you can decide for yourself, their's no harm in it. Anyway, I'm not a Curze expert, but Curze raised himself on Nostramo, a planet full of crime, and was constantly seeing psychic visions of the future (the Heresy and the Imperium afterwards) which disturbed him to say the least. He takes control of Nostramo by brutally punishing the criminals, driving the population into order by the use of fear. He continued a similar method during the crusade in order to bring other planets into compliance, which didn't sit well with the other Primarchs. However the Imperium's method of governance is not one that he finds effective. He talks to Fulgrim about his visions, who tells Dorn, who confronts Curze, who attacks and nearly kills Dorn. The other Primarchs isolate him and decide what to do with him. He breaks out, killing several marines as he goes, and returns to Nostramo which has fallen back into a criminal ruled hole just like it was before he ever arrived. He destroys Nostramo to demonstrate his ideals and methods of warfare and to enact the first events of his visions and flees across space, conquering more planets through brutal tactics and leaving general devastation, and he gradually becomes more susceptable to the forces of Chaos. The Emperor contacts Horus to detain Curze and bring him to Terra to account for his actions, however Horus has already turned to Chaos, and instead offers Curze the chance to side with him. Hope that helps a little. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2618052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badaboom Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Mind that Curze never truly fell to Chaos, he just turned renegade. For me, that´s another very cool point about that Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2619352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas9521 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thanks for the info all:) Much appreciated.Cypher,why did dorn confront curze about his visions.Indeed what were these visions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2622215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 He saw brother marines fighting each other, a galaxy slowly drowning in blood (seem familiar? ) The Pacification of the Cheraut system. During a banquet honoring the pacification of the Cheraut system, Lord Princeps Ichabod Lethrai tells the tale of a conflict between the primarchs Konrad Curze and Rogal Dorn. Curze confides in Fulgrim, telling him of a vision in which the Emperor kills him and his brothers. Fulgrim in turn informs Rogal Dorn about Konrad's vision. Konrad Curze is confronted by Rogal Dorn who takes slight to the Emperor's name. After a brutal encounter, where Rogal Dorn is savagely wounded, Curze is exiled to his chambers while the council of Primarchs debate. Konrad Curze makes a violent escape rather than face responsibility for his actions. Konrad takes his fleet to Nostramo and destroys the planet, this is the first step in a campaign of terror whence Curze eventually renounces the Emperor. The Emperor recalls Night Haunter to Earth to answer the charges, but the quest to bring the Night Haunter to justice is abandoned as the Horus Heresy unfolds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2622264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If i remember correctly from Index Astartes an Assassin was sent to kill Konrad after he gave Dorn a beat down. Perhaps he assumed it was the Emperor who sent the Assassin and thus turned his back on him, only to allow the next Assassin to kill him. Of course as the fluff is changing whilst the HH books are going on we wont know for sure until a Night Lord HH book Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2622747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badaboom Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Now that I think of it, wasn´t Curze a bit hypocrite? According to his fault-punishment philosophy, he should have accepted the consequences for his actions once he attacked Dorn, instead of escaping. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2622998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Well that's why Curze let M'Shen kill him. His philosophy was bad people should have bad things done to them and he had been pretty bad. So by the 'Emperor' sending the assassins to go kill him it proved that he was right. Being proved right meant more than living to Curze which is why he let her kill him. It's a bit simplified but you get the idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2623033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewlay Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 What I never got, is why did Fulgrim tell Dorn? Surly he would of told someone with the same understanding but who didn't resent Cruze, like Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2623490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 What I never got, is why did Fulgrim tell Dorn?Surly he would of told someone with the same understanding but who didn't resent Cruze, like Horus. Because Fulgrim was gossipy? :) Really, though, Fulgrim probably thought Dorn would be able to talk sense into Curze, who had to be mistaken, or was at the very least very confused, about what his visions were telling him. Fulgrim may have had good intentions in telling Dorn, but Dorn certainly didn't react as intended, and Fulgrim had betrayed a confidence, which only fed Curze's paranoia that he was being set up by not only the Emperor, but also by his fellow Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2623645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
weycon Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Death is nothing compared to vindication. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2623678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Aaah out of all the Primarchs, I love Curze the most, he's so real in a way, and really well developed. All the other primarchs are some kind of over-the-top version of either characters from movies or real-life but Curze has a really dope characted development. And don't worry I'm not hating on the other primarchs, they (almost) all have cool things about them aswell, and the over-the-top hero-ness of them all is cool in its own way, but Curze has always interested me the most. I think Bewlay puts it the best though. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2623774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewlay Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Aaah out of all the Primarchs, I love Curze the most, he's so real in a way, and really well developed. All the other primarchs are some kind of over-the-top version of either characters from movies or real-life but Curze has a really dope characted development. And don't worry I'm not hating on the other primarchs, they (almost) all have cool things about them aswell, and the over-the-top hero-ness of them all is cool in its own way, but Curze has always interested me the most. I think Bewlay puts it the best though. ;) I agree Cruze is one that can be empathised, however Magus, Lorger and Fulgrim (also Angron but his was less tragic) were all unlucky in a sense. But Cruze, due to he ruthless nature, was put in a negative light but had that twist that I really enjoyed. Although the NL themselves were just as tragic, the idea that both their gene father, and Emperor hated them for just their docturine (which was place upon them by both the Emperor and Curze) and gene traits. As you can probally see, I'm a NL fan ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219500-konrad-curze-turning/#findComment-2625068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.