Grendelsbane Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Two questions: Combat tactic allows a unit to fail a moral check....why would one want to do that? Shrike is armed with lightning claws that rend...what is the point? Its already a powerweapon so all wounds require an invulnerable save. Is that so he can possibly take out armored units if he rolls a rend on the "wound" roll? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Two questions: Combat tactic allows a unit to fail a moral check....why would one want to do that? Ever get into a combat that goes horribly wrong, or you misjudge your chances? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2619259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grendelsbane Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 So you are hoping to be able to beat the other person's initiative when you fall back so you can hopefully break out of close combat? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2619357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Shrike is armed with lightning claws that rend...what is the point? Its already a powerweapon so all wounds require an invulnerable save. Is that so he can possibly take out armored units if he rolls a rend on the "wound" roll? the point is that he can rend and damage upto AV13 instead of AV10 But can't you get caught in a sweeping advance and crushed? not space marines, they have ATSKNF, which means if they get caught by a pursuing enemy (the initiative roll) they take extra wounds instead Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2619358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Rending is an automatic wound regardless of toughness. So he can take on those higher toughness creatures and have a chance at wounding them. It also allows you to have a much better chance of killing armour, rather then relying on a single krak grenade. I used combat tactics today in my match against chaos. My rhino with a tact squad got popped, the squad then promptly gets plasma cannoned by an obliterator, and a chosen squad loomed in charge range. Went to ground for the plasma cannon, lost 4 marines total from shooting. Chose to fail moral check, so fell back 2D6 out of charge range of the chosen squad. Next turn I auto-rallied, and then moved (FAQ) and then rapid fired and hit them with a flamer plus combi-flamer. Had I not chosen to fail, the squad would have been killed in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2619429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Rending is because he's always had rending master-crafted lightning claws. And it lets him hurt Wraithlords, Ironclads, penetrate Rhinos easier etc. And Combat Tactics is fantastic. It's a situational skill, but then so if Fleet. Basically, it allows you to fall back from bad situations after shooting, or out of combat you don't want to be in. There's been a few times when I've wanted to loose people from shooting so I could fall back out of a bad situation. The other day it run me the game. On my opponent's last turn Mepthiston, after dispatching one Tactical squad, flew over to the remnants of my Tactical squad. After fleeting him I asked why he wasn't shooting to soften my squad up, and he replied by shooting his Devastator squad. Killed a guy, leaving me with two men left, forcing a morale check, which I chose to fail. My squad fell back out of assault range of Mephiston, and next turn (my last turn), regrouped, moved up to the objective which Mephiston hadn't got near enough to contest, and run me the game. All because of Combat Tactics :P. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2619545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 As others have said, combat tactics give you options in a game. Space Marines really don't care as much as other armies when they fail their leadership, and retreating out of range of close combat voluntarily can save you quite a few games. You don't want to know how many times my opponent has opted to simply not shoot my marines because he knows that I'll fail and retreat out of assault range. If you replace that with fleet, then he can just shoot with very little worry about you retreating. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2619807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br0ther Rafen Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Combat tactics really is a godsend, it has saved my contesting unit multiple times in the past, and the only time that I replace it with Chapter tactics is with Pedro kantor, which is fairly rare. As for Rending, it has already been covered above so I won't bother replying to that. My 2 cents Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2619883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 So you are hoping to be able to beat the other person's initiative when you fall back so you can hopefully break out of close combat? Yes. Wich in turn allows you take the considerable short ranged fire power of a marine army and bring it completely to bare on this enemy unit, and/or to tie it up with an assault unit of your own where the odds are more favorable- like that counter-assault dreadnaught you have anchoring your line, or those vangaurd you had placed behind your lines for this purpose, or those Assault Terminators that just happened to be handy. Combat Tactics is one of the most powerful abilities in C:SM, because it allows the player in question to decide when theyre having a losing battle and attempt to put themselves in a better position.... and theres nothing the enemy can do about it. Either you win combat, in wich case theyre likely SOL anyways, or you lose combat- in which case you get to roll to see if you can kill your enemy without fear of retaliation during the shooting phase- with the appreciable drawback that if you fail this roll your enemy gets a couple free shots. Of course, not nearly as many free shots as you might have had on HIM. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2619903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grendelsbane Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Wow....I think I haven't really understood the power or effectiveness of combat tactics. In none of the games I've had with my buddies have we even thought of using the idea of failing a check. If you are pinned...but have to do a moral check and choose to fail....next turn you can now regroup and fight as normal correct? If so, that would have been really handy with my sternguard yesterday. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2620811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I like how my simple, rhetorical, question has brough revelations.. I am the MessiahTM* *No, not Kevin Keegan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2620812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Wow....I think I haven't really understood the power or effectiveness of combat tactics. In none of the games I've had with my buddies have we even thought of using the idea of failing a check. If you are pinned...but have to do a moral check and choose to fail....next turn you can now regroup and fight as normal correct? If so, that would have been really handy with my sternguard yesterday. <_< According to the BRB pg. 24, inset box- yes. A unit that falls back while pinned *due to a failed morale check* returns to normal 'immediately'. Thus they would be unpinned. Assuming they ran away to a place more than 6" from an enemy they would then make a 3" regroup move, and then be able to move and shoot as normal *as per the FAQ*. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219567-combat-tactics-and-capt-shrike/#findComment-2621344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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