What is the best dreadnought combination?

[Cyprus]

I have one question for all you SM players out there. What is the best dred combo? ( Any dred combo, iron clads, venerables, anything)

I'm well aware of the awesomeness of riflemen dreds, but what others are there?

[Jeremiah2911]

Any version with a multi-melta, and a heavy flamer...

 

 

 

Provided your HQ is Vulkan :D

[Myxx]

A Furioso painted blue...?

[Kazehana]

A Furioso painted blue would hate to be within 12" of a MM Dred in a Vulkan list ;)

 

The problem is there's no "Best" build overall - there's the "Best build for your list." Some armies are best without a Dred, for instance - how can there be a "Best" Dred build when the preferred numbers can vary from 0 to 6?

[Cyprus]

So, if there aren't any "good" builds for an army that DOES NOT have a special charcter or something like that, are there any BAD dred combos?

[Phlegon]

I run 2 Venerable Dreads armed with assault cannons and one with a storm bolter and one with a flamer. I run the venerable dreads because there is nothing better than seeing them get destroyed and then forcing my opponent to reroll that result. But even if you run these guys as normal dreads they are great at supporting you tactical squads.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I drop a venerable dread with a multi-melta behind the oh so common enemy tank wall in a pod with a locator beacon. I use the beacon to deep strike termies, speeders, and other deadly forces of deep striking doom. The Dread is survivable enough to last the turn, and can cause a large amount of damage with the multi-melta because you can safely drop the pod close to the tanks.

[Cyprus]

I'm tempted to run a master of the forge just so I could have more dreadnoughts that will not be taking up elite choices because I also want to take CC termies. I have 2 Iron clads ( made from one ironclad box and a random dreadnought chassis laying around :rolleyes: ) and a normal dread with CCW and either TL lascannon or multi melta

[Kazehana]

if there aren't any "good" builds for an army that DOES NOT have a special charcter or something like that

 

Pray do tell, where in the world did you get that idea?

 

I said, and I reiterate;

 

If we do not know your list, we cannot tell you what is the best Dred for you.

 

Dreadnoughts are amazing, but not all Dreadnoughts are amazing in every army.

 

If you have a lot of dakka, would you take a Dred meant to do that in lieu of one with long-range AT?

If you have almost no dakka but a lot of AT, would you take an AT Dread in lieu of one capable of mass fire?

 

If you have a lot of armour, maybe a Dred isn't for you. Or maybe you want it to attract fire. It depends on your list. Your HQ is important, but the rest of your list is equally so.

[Phlegon]

@Kaz - Hey buddy I don't think he's looking for tactical advice but more just wanting an open topic about all the other players dreads out there. I'm sure that if he wanted tactical advice for dreads in his army he surely would have posted over in the tactica.

 

I have 2 Iron clads ( made from one ironclad box and a random dreadnought chassis laying around happy.gif )

 

Thats awesome, I did the same thing with the venerable kit. It's good to know I can get two dreads out of a Ironclad kit.

[Bannus]

Perhaps to better answer Cyprus' questions, we should post the potential advantages and disadvantages of of particular builds.

 

And since it has everything to do about Dreads and nothing particular to the Chapters of Legend, I'll move this over to Tactica Astartes.

[Cyprus]

Yeah thanks Bannus, that was where I was getting at.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Could always look at the marines 101 in my sig, its got a few dread builds listed (under relevent sections) in there, they are only a few of the most notable, but may go some way to aiding your answer ;)

[Cyprus]

I was looking for balance, because I'm running 3 dreds in a variation of one of my lists, which might become THE list for me. These are some of the builds I will most likely use. I don't want to dedicate all three dreds to one aspect ( CC, Anti Inf, Anti Tank, etc) so I tried to make each dred different.

 

Iron Clad

Hurricane Bolters, with Closecombat weapon and stormbolter

 

Iron Clad

TL lascannon, 2 hunter Killer Rockets ( because missiles always miss) , Seismic Hammer with Flamer

 

Iron Clad

Chain fist with Heavy Flamer, Close Combat Weapon with Heavy Flamer, Assault Launchers

 

As you can see, I love Iron Clads!! One quick question, since I don't have a codex on me right now. CAn Iron Clads take Tl lascannons? I'm just guessing that I can, so I threw the dred with lascannon in there. The hurricane bolter dred is for anti inf, whichI find very effective.

Lascannon dred is for long range tank killing, and Chainfist dred is for short range vechile hunting. Considereing giving a drop pod to the Chain fist dred too

[Shadowstalker Grim]

ironclads can't get lascannons, they are up close fighters ;)

 

If you want ranged weaponry then regular dreads should be your first port of call, they are probably the most diverse. If you get points for upgrades venerables are good, but ironclads are stuck in the close range bracket. This means that you'll probably have to be drop podding them in in order to get them in range fast.

[Cyprus]

Okay thanks, had a suspicion that Iron Clads can't take lascannons :D . So venerable it is. What if there were venerable iron clads.........................

[DarkGuard]

There is a Venerable Ironclad now, he's just in the new Imperial Armour book and is an IC.... and awesome! :)

 

Anyway, down to Dreads. There is no best Dread, there is just your best Dread. As Grim has already said the link in his sig (and mine too) will show some commonly used builds and what they're used for.

 

And what do I use? I use Rifleman Dreads, and they are now one of the most feared things in my army at my LGS. A use a pair of them, meaning I can throw out 8 TL S7 shots at two different targets. I prefer them to vehicle hunting over Typhoons as they are more cost effective, more durable, more reliable, and look awesome, and I have anti-tank elsewhere. I've recently been playing about with using them and a pair of Typhoons in a squadron, and its been looking promising. The Typhoons fill the gap left by my Vindys, able to crack heavier armour and infantry more easily, while being able to get side armour shots. Nasty combination. Of course, Rifleman Dreads do struggle against AV12, more so against AV13 and can't scratch AV14, and can only kill 4 guys each turn, not factoring in cover saves, so their purpose is narrow. They are also slow (but are mobile, as they can fire after moving), and often end up facing front armour because of their slow speed. They are also no good in combat, but then all Dreads are.

 

Other Dreads I've used include the lascannon/HF Dread, which acted as a vehicle sniper and interceptor unit, and the assault cannon/HF Dread, which accompanies midfield squad. I've also heard that MM/HF in Drop Pods are good alpha strike units, but don't expect them to survive much. My brother uses a Dread with plasma cannon/HF, and it can be nasty against bunched up squads, especially if they just bundled out of a transport.

 

I have no use for Venerable Dreads, as I feel they are overpointed for their abilities, and I rarely need the added WS/BS, but that doesn't mean that they are a bad choice, and they can be fantastic with the assault cannon or multi-melta, as these often make them high priority targets.

 

Likewise, an Ironclad in a Drop Pod is high priority, and its high armour helps keep it alive. Most people either give it dual flamers and dual missile launchers, which is a costy way to allow it to hurt anything it may face when dropping in, while others keep it with one heavy flamer and one meltagun, cheaper and more effective against vehicles, though less against infantry.

 

Really, with Dreads you need to look at your list, decide where there is a hole that needs filling, and decide whether you want a Dread to fill that hole (as opposed to Sternguard, or Typhoons, or Preds), and then there you go, fill it with your Dread. If you find a new combo (or underused combo), tell us how it does.

[spartan249]

Whatever your preferred build of dreadnought, the Venerable is not where it's at. The added survivability and small increase to skill is not worth more than half another dreadnought. It might work if you're using one to support the rest of your army, but you simply sacrifice way too many points to get the venerable ability to use more than one. Black Templars and Dark Angels bring the very good venerable dreadnought to the table (BT still have the superior ven dread, but only bring one), but for any of the recent codices, it's not worth it.

 

I use the Lascannon/HF variant for all my dreads. It has the main advantage of being versatile, which is very handy when you're using more than 2 and are depending on your dreads to do the lion's share of work in the list. I also use the 2x TLAC dread occasionally, when I'm using less than 4 dreadnoughts. It's cheap and throws out plenty of S7 shots.

[Cyprus]

Okey, so I'll run a dred list over the weekend, and see which one(s) work the best. All I have to do is get 2 more drop pods, get vulkan hestan, and figure out what to do with the third dred. What my army, as of right now, is really lacking is anti armor, but this'll get fixed with the addition of a pred with las sponsons, so we'll see what dred build will complement any unforseen holes in my army

[DarkGuard]

Well if you've got space for a Dread and are lacking anti-armour, than a Dreadnought with MM/HF or Ironclad with MG/HF in a pod. With Vulkan those weapons are twin-linked, so you stand a good chance or blowing up any tank you cross or immolating any infantry thereby.

 

Also, I should have mentioned this in my last post, but I wouldn't run Ironclads with hurricane bolters or chainfists. IMO it's not worth trading off an extra attack and heavy flamer for 3/6 TL bolter shots. If you want long range go for hunter killers. And I wouldn't trade I4 (and an extra attack depending on interpretation) for an chainfist, I'd prefer the +1 on vehicle damage tables, remember, you still pen Land Raiders on a 5 or 6.

[Cyprus]

Well, I'm planning on using the whole ironclad box of bitz somewhere, but all the bits are interchangable, so I'll try anything right now. With 3 dreds in a normal list, there are going to be a lot of combinations..........BTW ordering Vulkan , and then hopefully certain armies won't crush me when I miss that really important melta shot, which always............ misses for me

[Shadowstalker Grim]

You could always run 1 dread of each type and see what you find the most fun to use, 1 regular, 1 venerable and 1 ironclad. It'll help you see which one you feel is the best and worth its points.

 

Of course you could run MOTF too and then run 2 of each type, just to see what its like when more than 1 of a kind is on the table (a single ironclad drop podding into enemy lines might die, but 2-3 will mean each of them are more likely to live longer)

[bladeofdeath3]

I find the venerable dreadnought to be the most survivable dreadnought in the space marine list. The venerable rule has saved my dreadnoughts from death an innumerable amount of time. I run 2 venerable dreadnoughts with multi-meltas in drop pods. Simple as that. I run 3 drop pods usually so I can choose what I want to come in given the opponents dreadnought. Since they have a higher BS than normal dreadnoughts, Vulcan is not required. They come down and usually destroy tanks turn one. One game, the venerable dread came down and popped a land raider. My opponent was thrilled at that sight. I find Ironclads to be useful, but not as good as venerable. I find them better and slogging across the field and soaking up fire and thrashing the enemy when they get in close.

[LardO'Blood]

I find the venerable dreadnought to be the most survivable dreadnought in the space marine list. The venerable rule has saved my dreadnoughts from death an innumerable amount of time. I run 2 venerable dreadnoughts with multi-meltas in drop pods. Simple as that. I run 3 drop pods usually so I can choose what I want to come in given the opponents dreadnought. Since they have a higher BS than normal dreadnoughts, Vulcan is not required. They come down and usually destroy tanks turn one. One game, the venerable dread came down and popped a land raider. My opponent was thrilled at that sight. I find Ironclads to be useful, but not as good as venerable. I find them better and slogging across the field and soaking up fire and thrashing the enemy when they get in close.

Very fun use of them, the 12" range with the MM means if you deepstrike directly on top of your target you will always be within range to melta an armored target! Venerable also protects from opposing melta a lot, it takes twice as many shots to neuter a venerable then a regular dreadnought. In fact, it should take about 9 melta shots to kill the venerable.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I agree, if you can afford it, always go for Venerable. It will save you many, many times over. Of course, there was the one time where a Dark Eldar player shot my dreadnought, penetrated, and rolled a six. I said, "That's okay, it's venerable." So he re-rolls it, and what does he get? A six.