sac_ld Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 So the new FAQ says the following "Q: A Furioso Librarian counts as being Leadership 10 for all psychic purposes. What exactly does this mean? (p29) A: It means that for Psychic tests, for using a psychic hood and for being affected by psychic powers, special rules or wargear that affect psykers and require a Leadership value, they are counted as being Leadership 10." Does this mean that Tyranids can use the psychic power Hypnotic Gaze on it? The power does the following: "This power is used during the Assault phase, after any assault moves have been made, but before any attacks are made. If successful, select one model in base contact with the Broodlord. Both players roll a D6 and add the Leadership of their respective models. If the Broodlord rolls equal to or higher than the target's score, that model may not attack in the ensuing close combat. This power cannot affect models that do not have a Leadership value." So because it's counted as being leadership 10 does it mean it can now lose it's ability to ignore this power? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 0_o looks like it does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2621610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor1234 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 the wording would seem to suggest yes...... but then this opens a whole new can of worms, mind war can affect him too (how!! he has no wounds!!!) I think the staff at GW just spend their days alone in a box they don't seem to communicate with each other regarding rules which often leads to problems such as this....... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2621661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsolom Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Definately a wierd one this ;) and I agree it does seem to suggest that it will affect him. I think Thor1234 hit the nail on the head regarding GW's intercommunication ;) Edit: spelling :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2621677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The FAQ says: 'psychic powers, special rules or wargear that affect psykers and require a Leadership value'. The way I read it is that you use the Ld10 if the power targets psykers only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2621737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cuthbert Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Librarian Furioso's have the Psyker rule. Thay are affected by psychic attacks such as Mind War. Taking the guide from when a Lib Furioso suffers a 'Perils of the Warp' wounds from a psychic attack are likely glancing hits and a reasonable outcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2621831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The FAQ says: 'psychic powers, special rules or wargear that affect psykers and require a Leadership value'. The way I read it is that you use the Ld10 if the power targets psykers only. The problem is that the answer doesn't specify psykers only. Merely powers, wargear, and special rules that would affect Psykers and require a Leadership value. All psykers are models, and thus if a power affects a model, then it affects a psyker and thus the Librarian Furioso is vulnerable to things that wouldn't affect other models (the Broodlord's Hypnotic Gaze, for example). There are few and far-between powers, wargear and rules that actually affect a Librarian Furioso now because of this FAQ change, so I wouldn't bother trying to argue TOO hard about it. It's mostly Tyranid stuff, and stuff that would inflict wounds (Mind War, for example) would have no effect because a Librarian Furioso has no Wounds to begin with. EDIT: Lord Cuthbert's solution/recommendation is also acceptable in my eyes, although that is a house-rule and not an official ruling, and so would require players to agree on it before hand. It makes sense, I would agree with and allow it, but it isn't RAW. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2621839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Lord Cuthbert -as far as im aware there is no rule to back to back that up. We cant just add rules based on probability. It says wounds caused, libby dread has no wounds. As a result its ignored unless we're told otherwise explicitly. As for the question of the nid power, its really a tough one. 1: Libby Dread has LD10 for purposes of things that effect psykers. 2: Gaze does not effect models without an LD. Issue: Gaze can only effect the libby dread if the libby dread first has a LD to be effected - which it only has if a power effects it..... What comes first, the chicken or the egg? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2621841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 at least it doesnt get auto killed by sob crossbow psi bolts or runs away from culexus assasins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2621874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 This FAQ also brings life in the old Death Mask discussion. Both Hypnotic Gaze and Death Masks should work by some fuzzy RAW. But I really don't think it's meant to work against a Dread... I still believe the Ld10 is meant to work against 'psyker only'. Why do GW keep giving us half-finished FAQ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2622146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodancient Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I took the FAQ as meaning that when he makes his Psy test he uses leadership 10 other than that has no leadership like anyother vehicle as he is to devote to his machine to worry about anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2622185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I am of two minds on this. It could really go either way to me. I wouldn't say the Death Masks work though, by the way. That's just a Leadership test, it's not a psychic function. Hypnotic Gaze, being a psychic power, is a bit fuzzier to me. However, I would like to propose an interpretation: The Furioso Librarian counts as Ld 10, but does not actually have a Ld stat. Since Hypnotic Gaze specifically adds that it does not affect models that do not have a Ld stat, I suggest that the Furioso Librarian is not affected — since it is a model without an Ld stat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2622248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Again, this was a FAQ answering. Unless when rules lawyering, the actual Furioso Libby rule was already clear that it had LD10 for all purposes of being a psyker. That include using powers, using the psychic hood, etc. A FAQ will not create a new rule unless it really has to, then it is always posted as an errata. And there is no errata stating that the Furioso Libby entry gets an extra stat called Leadership on it's stat card. It just counts as having a score for psychic purposes. I really think people are reading a rule change in grammar here which can also be explained that psychic powers that require the target to have a LD score would not touch and thus not create a rule change. And I'm sorry, but when choosing between a grammar interpretation I always go for those closest to the rules when reading a FAQ. As FAQ are not new rules, they are rulings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2622250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 A FAQ will not create a new rule unless it really has to, then it is always posted as an errata. I wish people would get that. It wasn't me posting it this time! I think this is a fair question, sufficiently fuzzy. I do think it's odd though — the FAQ on the Furioso didn't seem all that necessary or even worth it to me. It went kind of like this: "Q. What does counts as having Ld 10 for psychic purposes mean?" "A. It means you count as having Ld 10 for psychic purposes." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2622267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cuthbert Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Lord Cuthbert -as far as im aware there is no rule to back to back that up. We cant just add rules based on probability. It says wounds caused, libby dread has no wounds. As a result its ignored unless we're told otherwise explicitly. As for the question of the nid power, its really a tough one. 1: Libby Dread has LD10 for purposes of things that effect psykers. 2: Gaze does not effect models without an LD. Issue: Gaze can only effect the libby dread if the libby dread first has a LD to be effected - which it only has if a power effects it..... What comes first, the chicken or the egg? I have been playing since Rouge Trader and the rule set provided by GW has always had a lot of gray area to interpret. It does not seem fair to my mind that you give a I am pretty sure that the 'Perils of the Warp' affect on a Lib Dread is covered in the latest FAQ, I can't verify it now since I do not have adobe on this computer. It seems logical that this is the way to handle any wounds delivered by a psychic attack. It is a gray area and GW is know famously for allowing grat areas to exist, been that way since Rogue Trader. Also this is not an entirely new concept as the GK Dread with a 'Blessed Hull' is granted a Ld 10 for purposes of combating psychic attacks. It is an upgrade to the model so I do not see it as a chicken-egg situation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2622370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonny Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I (as a nid player) don't think the broodlord psychic power affects the libby dread. the libby doesn't have ld10, but counts as ld10 for any ability, power, or wargear that affects psykers - and in this I think it just means stuff like psychic hoods, shadow in the warp, and similar stuff. As it doesn't have an actual Ld value it cannot be affected by mind war or the nid power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219751-furioso-librarians-vs-psychic-powers/#findComment-2624578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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