Melta Templates

[4RC71C FOXX]

I have been reading the rules for the Caestus Assault Ram in IA10 and it states it has a weapon that has the melta rule and uses a 5" blast with a range of 18" (so half would be 9")

 

The melta rule says if the target is within half range you get and extra D6 penetration.

 

How would this work for the random nature of a scatter?

 

Would you measure the range to target, to see if it is less than half range. Then roll scatter, with whatever it hits counting as getting 2D6 Pen.

 

Would you state target and roll scatter, then measure to target and if within half range (once scatter has been finalised) you get 2D6 pen, if it is out of half range you don't.

 

Would you measure before rolling scatter, and then again after, if it has scattered past half range, but still hits an armoured target you don't get the 2D6-tough luck?

 

One of the Imperial Guard Hellhound variants has a similar weapon (small blast with melta rule) so any experience with this could be useful in this situation.

 

FOXX

[Cedric]

I'd say you measure melta when the blast has landed.

Over half range, no melta.

 

Energy dissipates over distance, after all.

[Seahawk]

It's based on the distance between the gun and the vehicle, as always. Nothing changes :).

 

To threadjack, what happens if the hole scatters off the vehicle but the blast stays on? In the Devil Dog's case, would it be S4+2D6 pen (because it's half strength)? We didn't find any reason the second penetration dice would disappear when it's not a direct hit.

[greatcrusade08]

It's based on the distance between the gun and the vehicle, as always. Nothing changes :).

 

To threadjack, what happens if the hole scatters off the vehicle but the blast stays on? In the Devil Dog's case, would it be S4+2D6 pen (because it's half strength)? We didn't find any reason the second penetration dice would disappear when it's not a direct hit.

 

its the strength thats halved not the penetration rolls, with no other applicable rules id say your correct.

[Grey Mage]

Yeah, Id say after determining wich vehicles were hit you measure to them, any in half range you get the extra 2d6 on.

 

And Id agree- 4+2d6 armor penetration.

[4RC71C FOXX]

Brilliant, thanks for the help :-)

Looks like this is quite a powerful weapon.

 

Also it is Twin-Linked, so that would mean you get to re-roll the to wound rolls against models with a toughness value, but what about verses armour? I am inclined to assume that you do not gain a benefit, but would there be an arguement to suggest you can re-roll the armour penetration roll (i.e. both dice)? This would seem very close to overpowered to me.

 

FOXX

[greatcrusade08]

Also it is Twin-Linked, so that would mean you get to re-roll the to wound rolls against models with a toughness value, but what about verses armour? I am inclined to assume that you do not gain a benefit, but would there be an arguement to suggest you can re-roll the armour penetration roll (i.e. both dice)? This would seem very close to overpowered to me.

 

FOXX

 

actually that doesnt sound right, only template weapons re-roll wounds with twin linked, this is a blast weapon, youd get to re-roll the scatter dice in this case IIRC.

but no re-roll to wound doesnt carry over to vehicles

[4RC71C FOXX]

Ahh ok I understand, because there is a distinct difference between a "template" weapon and a "blast" weapon.

 

Though interestingly in the rulebook it says that a twin-linked template weapon re-rolls the armour penetration roll against vehicles.

 

 

 

So this particular weapon :

 

I would be able to re-roll the scatter (the scatter die and both D6) if I want to.

 

Once the Blast marker's final position has been decided, if it is within 9" (i.e. half the range of the weapon) then against any model with an armour value that is under the template I get to roll 2D6 armour penetration. (Though this does bring up a question of if it is the centre of the marker that needs to be within 9" or any part of the blast marker being within 9" (I am tempted to agree with the former, i.e. the centre of the marker needs to be within 9" of the weapon.)

 

If the centre of the marker's hole is not directly over the vehicle, but part of the marker is then I wll use a strength value of 4 not 8, but if it is within 9" using 2D6.

 

 

Right, rather complicated, but I believe I have it understood now, Many thanks

 

FOXX

[Frosty the Pyro]

I forget exactly were it says so, but I am fairly certain range messurements are done to the center of a blast marker.

[Ashe Darke]

'Melta weapons are lethal, short-ranged 'heat rays'. They roll an extra D6 when rolling to penetrate a vehicle's Armour Value at half range or less. If the weapon is more than half its maximum range away, a Single D6 is rolled as normal.'

 

It's all about the actual distance between models rather than where the blast lands. Remember that if you shoot the front of the tank and the template scatters to the back realistically the front still hit and still at that range.

[Wildfire]

Ahh ok I understand, because there is a distinct difference between a "template" weapon and a "blast" weapon.

 

Though interestingly in the rulebook it says that a twin-linked template weapon re-rolls the armour penetration roll against vehicles.

 

Template weapons are tear shaped, blast weapons are circular.

[4RC71C FOXX]

It's all about the actual distance between models rather than where the blast lands. Remember that if you shoot the front of the tank and the template scatters to the back realistically the front still hit and still at that range.

 

That is a very useful point Ashe :-) , would this also apply if the centre of the template does not hit the vehicle directly?

 

FOXX

[Ashe Darke]

You mean if it scatters onto another vehicle? You always hit the arc you are in unless you have a barrage weapon but I don't know of and melta, barrage weapons.

[4RC71C FOXX]

I mean if the hole of the template is not over the vehicle, but part of the template is, I would assume I would use half strength (4) against the facing that is nearest the firing unit.

 

But what if the template lands 10" away, but part of the vehicle it hits is within 9"?

 

FOXX

 

Edit: Spelling

[Ashe Darke]

Ahhh yeah ok. It would be half strength. Now the next bit I'm not sure about. One way of looking at it is this; if any part of the hull of the tank is within half range of the weapon then you get 2d6. Another way is to draw an imaginary line between the weapon and where the blast landed. Now if the point where the line hits the tank is half range or less then you get 2d6. I'm more inclined to think it's the second one.

 

4+2d6 may not seem like much but my mate has been popping Hellhounds and Chimeras with the 3+2d6 of Eldrich Storm on a fairly consistent basis *grumbles*

[4RC71C FOXX]

Hmm, I like those two suggestions.

 

Yeah I agree 4 + 2D6 (maximum 12) could get upto 16 which is easily enough to penetrate any armour in the game, so I think this could be a rather good tank killer, especially if they are bunched up, imagine landing a melta template between 2 rhino chasis, vindis or preds and hitting their side armour with 4 + 2D6, quite a good chance of penetrating each.

 

Which is good as the army list I have written up to use this model (2 of them) doesn't have alot of ranged anti-tank. (Bear in mind this is a dream army list, as I do not have the spare £200 for 2 Caestus' unfortunately :-p )

 

FOXX

[Seahawk]

You're making things overly complicated (and you're not reading responses! :evil:). For melta purposes, there is only one factor: the distance between the end of your gun (for vehicles) and the target vehicle. Once that's established, you determine whether that's half range or not. If it is, then you get double dice. Then proceed with the actual shooting attack...

 

But what if the template lands 10" away, but part of the vehicle it hits is within 9"?

If the melta weapon's range is 18", then you get double dice.

 

 

 

It's based on the distance between the gun and the vehicle, as always. Nothing changes ;).

And Id agree [if the hole is not over the vehicle]- 4+2d6 armor penetration.

[4RC71C FOXX]

Yep brilliant thanks for all the help guys I have this clearly sorted now.

 

FOXX