JotWW question pertaining to Tyranids w/ wings

[Lumdin]

I was talking to a Tyranid player and they said that a harpy or hive tyrant with wings are immune to JOTWW.

 

but I looked over the codex and the only creatures that are considered jump infantry are tyranid warriors (shrikes, i think)

 

but under the wargear section it states that tyranids with wings move as jump infantry.

 

I can't find anywhere that it states they are jump infantry class.

 

Any help would be appreciated, and I searched and could not find anything on forum.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Decoy]

They "Move as jump infantry." Congrats to them on -moving- like Jump Infantry. They're still Infantry, and can still be Jawsed. Now go slap up a whiny Nid player.

[Spacefrisian]

Faq/ errata from GW try it out.

[Schertenleib]

Faq/ errata from GW try it out.

 

 

Must have overlooked it. Could you be more specific?

[Vassakov]

They "Move as jump infantry." Congrats to them on -moving- like Jump Infantry. They're still Infantry, and can still be Jawsed. Now go slap up a whiny Nid player.

 

Decoy is right, they are not the same thing. Although a Tyrant or Harpy is a Monstrous Creature, and so gets +1 -1 on the roll for dying. IIRC, this means they only die on a 6 so it's not that effective. 4 Long Fangs with Missiles and Living Lightning will probably do better against it!

 

EDIT: Corrected the rule for MC's. Apologies for confusion!

[storm bringer]

Faq/ errata from GW try it out.

 

 

Must have overlooked it. Could you be more specific?

I cannot remember if the JAWS description states it affects MCs but I assume it does?

 

From a RAW point of view it could be debated, but the only reason Harpies etc are not Jump Infantry types in their unit descriptions is because they are also Monstrous creatures and there is no such unit type definition as "Jump infantry Monstrous Creatures". So this falls into a grey area.

 

From a fluff point of view I assume that winged MCs would just fly over the psychic fissure but Jet-bikes are affected, so even that assumption is open to debate.

 

My gut feeling is it would be harsh ruling if they are affected but GW need to FAQ.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Decoy is right, they are not the same thing. Although a Tyrant or Harpy is a Monstrous Creature, and so gets +1 on the roll for dying. IIRC, this means they only die on a 6 so it's not that effective. 4 Long Fangs with Missiles and Living Lightning will probably do better against it!

 

I may be wrong, but as I understand it, the targets have to roll equal or under their Initiative to pass.

 

So +1 to the roll makes a roll of 5 into a 6

 

Therefore I5 MCs die on a 5 or 6, not just a 6?

 

Regards,

[DV8]

Decoy is right, they are not the same thing. Although a Tyrant or Harpy is a Monstrous Creature, and so gets +1 on the roll for dying. IIRC, this means they only die on a 6 so it's not that effective. 4 Long Fangs with Missiles and Living Lightning will probably do better against it!

 

I may be wrong, but as I understand it, the targets have to roll equal or under their Initiative to pass.

 

So +1 to the roll makes a roll of 5 into a 6

 

Therefore I5 MCs die on a 5 or 6, not just a 6?

 

Regards,

 

Monstrous Creatures subtract 1 from their Initiative Test, so with a base Initiative of 4, rolling a 5 (subtract 1) equals a 4, and thus a pass. A Monstrous Creature with Initiative 4 must actually roll a 6 in order to fail and thus die (6 subtract 1 is 5, which is a fail).

 

 

DV8

[Vassakov]

Decoy is right, they are not the same thing. Although a Tyrant or Harpy is a Monstrous Creature, and so gets +1 on the roll for dying. IIRC, this means they only die on a 6 so it's not that effective. 4 Long Fangs with Missiles and Living Lightning will probably do better against it!

 

I may be wrong, but as I understand it, the targets have to roll equal or under their Initiative to pass.

 

So +1 to the roll makes a roll of 5 into a 6

 

Therefore I5 MCs die on a 5 or 6, not just a 6?

 

Regards,

 

Monstrous Creatures subtract 1 from their Initiative Test, so with a base Initiative of 4, rolling a 5 (subtract 1) equals a 4, and thus a pass. A Monstrous Creature with Initiative 4 must actually roll a 6 in order to fail and thus die (6 subtract 1 is 5, which is a fail).

 

 

DV8

 

This'll teach me to try and answer rules questions on 4 hours of sleep... it's -1 on the roll, not +1 but a natural 6 is always a fail.

 

I know what I meant... <_<

[JamesI]

This is the same as chaos lords/princes with wings. They move as jump infantry but are not jump infantry (which is a bad ruling in my opinion, but oh well).

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Monstrous Creatures subtract 1 from their Initiative Test, so with a base Initiative of 4, rolling a 5 (subtract 1) equals a 4, and thus a pass. A Monstrous Creature with Initiative 4 must actually roll a 6 in order to fail and thus die (6 subtract 1 is 5, which is a fail).

 

 

DV8

 

Thanks DV8, teach me to check the codex rather than relay on someone's wording before posting <_<

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I cannot remember if the JAWS description states it affects MCs but I assume it does?

 

From a RAW point of view it could be debated, but the only reason Harpies etc are not Jump Infantry types in their unit descriptions is because they are also Monstrous creatures and there is no such unit type definition as "Jump infantry Monstrous Creatures". So this falls into a grey area.

 

From a fluff point of view I assume that winged MCs would just fly over the psychic fissure but Jet-bikes are affected, so even that assumption is open to debate.

 

My gut feeling is it would be harsh ruling if they are affected but GW need to FAQ.

 

 

How are Harpies actually catagorised in their codex? If it is MC then they are subject to JAWS, if it is Jump Infantry, then they are not?

 

Anything else is probably conjecture and therefore not valid RAW, even if it is common sense ;)

[Brother Nihm]

The point is moot, nobody uses Harpies. ;)

 

But for the sake of argument its unit type is: Monstrous Creature.

[Vassakov]

The point is moot, nobody uses Harpies. :P

 

This is true. But you know, just in case...

 

But for the sake of argument its unit type is: Monstrous Creature.

 

So yes then, it is possible to drop a flying snake into a chasm. Along with everything else...

[Decoy]

If you feel like being a REAL jerk, try to Hammarjac the lil' beasty before you Jaws it. It only works maybe half the time, but so help me, the look on the enemy player's face is priceless. "HAH! My Mephiston survives your Hammer of Doom!" Jaws. "..."

[DV8]

If you feel like being a REAL jerk, try to Hammarjac the lil' beasty before you Jaws it. It only works maybe half the time, but so help me, the look on the enemy player's face is priceless. "HAH! My Mephiston survives your Hammer of Doom!" Jaws. "..."

 

Yea but then Murphy's Law will step in and kick you in the shins, because the one time you manage to Hammerjac say, Mephiston, that will also be the one time Mephiston rolls a 1 for his Initiative test.

 

 

DV8

[Decoy]

Very true, DV, very damned true.

[Brother Nathan]

thought i read it in a faq, cant rember which one, that anything with wings, or that oves like jump infantry is jum infantry and gainst such beniffits. i think the example stated mentioned that herefore thehie tyrant given wings could therefore deeptrike. sound familiar to anyone?

[Schertenleib]

thought i read it in a faq, cant rember which one, that anything with wings, or that oves like jump infantry is jum infantry and gainst such beniffits. i think the example stated mentioned that herefore thehie tyrant given wings could therefore deeptrike. sound familiar to anyone?

 

 

I think this is what you saw.

 

Q: Can a unit that ʻmoves as jump infantryʼ deep strike?

(p52)

A: Yes.

[postal105]

The point is moot, nobody uses Harpies. :P

 

But for the sake of argument its unit type is: Monstrous Creature.

i recently had Harpies fielded against me so never say never. ;) :P

[Brother Nathan]

bah, just as well i wouldnt use a hive tyrant in my ary anymore, to expensive got. now got better alternatives(when i say better i mean chaeper...)

[Grey Mage]

The point is moot, nobody uses Harpies. :D

 

But for the sake of argument its unit type is: Monstrous Creature.

i recently had Harpies fielded against me so never say never. ;) :P

Theyre certainly a part of the Nid list I want to build...

 

Anyways, my play group just says anything that 'moves like' will be unnaffected... but on the other hand is affected by tempests wrath. Of course, this reverses when we go to tournaments to play.... so its interesting keeping it all in line.

 

Still, it seems fairly straightforward.

[storm bringer]

If GW do rule that winged Hive tyrants etc. are affected by Jaws it will be an even better weapon against Fateweaver- ok he'll need a 6 to fail but wont get his evil 3+ invulernable save rerolls and when he does fail that'll be 333 points falling into a chasm!

[Vassakov]

If GW do rule that winged Hive tyrants etc. are affected by Jaws it will be an even better weapon against Fateweaver- ok he'll need a 6 to fail but wont get his evil 3+ invulernable save rerolls and when he does fail that'll be 333 points falling into a chasm!

 

I think they'll have to rule that they aren't - Fateweaver, Bloodthirsters etc are Monsterous Creatures.

 

Models with Daemonic Flight move as Jump Infantry.

 

Codex: Chaos Daemons, emphasis mine. They move as Jump Infantry, but are still Monsterous Creatures and thus a fair and valid target for Jaws. (And I run Fateweaver and a Thirster in my Daemons army :( )

[Decoy]

(And I run Fateweaver and a Thirster in my Daemons army ;) )

 

Om nom nom?