Plague Angel Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I’ve been hearing a lot about different psychic abilities lately, such as Sanguine Sword or Shield of Sanguinius, that are becoming more and more standard. Well and good, I say! However, there is another power I feel sometimes gets overlooked. Now I’m not going to claim this power is superior to all the others. Truth be told, we’re quite blessed with our psychic selection, with very useful powers to choose from — praise the Deus Encarmine! — and lots of good Librarian builds exist. I do want to talk about my personal favorite, though, and why it’s my favorite; it has served me well and is always useful. If nothing else, I’ll get the words out of my head and onto the board; that’s a better place for them. My favorite psychic power in our codex is Might of Heroes. I’ve found it to be incredibly useful in a variety of situations. It’s a very simple power, adding D3 attacks to a model. But that very simplicity is part of it’s usefulness. You won’t have any disagreements with your opponent, or have to wait for GW to get around to making a new FAQ, or have to hop on a forum to double-check your understanding. Simple, clear, to the point. Personally, I find it very eloquent in form, fluff, and function. Second, utility. While a good bit of our powers enhance the Librarian directly (Wings of Sanguinius for example), others are force multipliers like Unleash Rage, that contribute to your other units. Might of Heroes is both and either, allowing you to choose at the time you cast it. Related to that then, is the power’s versatility. It can be useful with practically any Librarian build or squad. Need more power weapon hits? Boost the Librarian. Up against a Monstrous Creature? Cast it on your power-fist buddy. Need to absolutely, positively wreck a tank in melee range? Have your Librarian in TDA add more chainfist attacks to one of his partners. High T or Eternal Warrior infantry a problem? Put your Librarian with a Vanguard or Honor Guard that includes lightning claws and ensure maximum slicing happens. Is your Librarian Furioso being tar-pitted by an opposing Dreadnought? Give yourself a bit of an edge to end the fight faster and get back to where you need to be. While there may be times when another power may be more useful than Might of Heroes, I haven’t yet found a time in which Might of Heroes wasn’t useful at all. Even one extra attack can turn the tide. If your Librarian is mobile, thanks to a bike or jetpack or Wings of Sanguinius, you can move him from unit to unit and give extra attacks to where they are needed most! As a nice bonus, the power can be used in any Assault phase. Depending on your other power choice, this may make the Epistolary upgrade unnecessary, saving valuable points. Furthermore, you can use it in two phases of a combat in a row, if needed. The Librarian is a great unit with lots of options — and, in my own opinion, Blood Angels Librarians have the best fluff out of all the Chapters, thanks to their link with the primarch. Might of Heroes adds a lot to any army. In fact, whenever I make my lists I always automatically and instinctively take Might on my libbies, then when the list is done reconsider if another power would suit better. Sometimes I trade it for something else, perhaps Blood Lance or more often Shield. But Might of Heroes, humble it may be, I never underestimate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Mungo Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Shh! Don't let everyone know! :lol: I too enjoy using MoH for the versatility it offers. I usually run Astorath and a jumppack Librarian with Fear and MoH, and with someone like Astorath is on the table and can get the MoH boost it gets even better! Ive once had him kill 5 hammernators on the charge this way (although 2 or 3 is more common). If any mathhammers are around I'd be much interested in comparing MoH to Rage! edit: Forgot to say nicely summarized, Plague Angel! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2622824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 well, truth be told i feel the few extra attacks doesent even closely compare to rerolling all your hits for a unit (depending on target off course) sure its versatile but i wouldnt ever take it as a "primary power"....perhaps together with sword or rage but not on its own. offcourse experiences and opinions may vary but i hardly see a use for it compared to the other abilities Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2622914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Mungo Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 That's exactly why I'd love to see the numbers in such a comparison! In a fight where every attack in the unit matters just as much it's clear that Rage will be better, but in every case where the guy with the special weapon matters most I think MoH takes 1st place. In my experience it seems to effectively double the special weapons you have more or less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2622923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou666 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 hi guys, i like the sound of MOH. I was thinking, if you can attach an IC to any unit, surely, you can attach a libarian to a libraian dreadnought? then you can get the +d3 attacks twice! and potentially 10 strength ten attacks is not to be sniffed at! is this pheasable? what do you guys think? i can feel a librarian in a stormraven with librarian dreadnoguht combo coming on! :rolleyes: also, give one of the libraians unleash rage, and the other smite or blood lance. i like the sound of this, personally. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2622980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 My Libby Dread's standard powers are Wings and MoH. I love the expression on my foe's face when he gets 7 S10 attacks on WS6 heading his way when i charge and roll a 5 or 6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2622990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RC71C FOXX Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Good read Plague Angel :-) , it has made me think more about how I could effectively use MoH in my own forces. Quick comparison between a 10 man RAS with Power Fist, 2 Meltas, with Librarian charging into an MEQ (WS 4, T4, W1, Sv 3+) (with Furious Charge) (so in range of a priest but he is not attached to the squad) Might of Heroes If we give the extra attacks to the Librarian: 1 Extra: Librarian: 5 attacks: 3.33 hits 2.22 dead Power Fist: 3 attacks: 1.5 hits 1.25 dead Squad: 25 attacks: 12.5 hits 4.166 dead 7.636 dead 2 extra: Librarian: 6 attacks: 4 hits 2.66 dead Power Fist: 3 attacks: 1.5 hits 1.25 dead Squad: 25 attacks: 12.5 hits 4.166 dead 8.076 dead 3 extra: Librarian: 7 attacks: 4.66 hits 3.106 dead Power Fist: 3 attacks: 1.5 hits 1.25 dead Squad: 25 attacks: 12.5 hits 4.166 dead 8.522 dead If we give the extra attacks to the Power Fist Sergeant: 1 extra: Librarian: 4 attacks: 2.66 hits 1.77 dead Power Fist: 4 attacks: 2 hits 1.66 dead Squad: 25 attacks: 12.5 hits 4.166 dead 7.599 dead 2 extra: Librarian: 4 attacks: 2.66 hits 1.77 dead Power Fist: 5 attacks: 2.5 hits 2.083 dead Squad: 25 attacks: 12.5 hits 4.166 dead 8.019 dead 3 extra: Librarian: 4 attacks: 2.66 hits 1.77 dead Power Fist: 6 attacks: 3 hits 2.5 dead Squad: 25 attacks: 12.5 hits 4.166 dead 8.436 dead Unleash Rage Librarian: 4 attacks: 3.55 hits 2.366 kills Power Fist: 3 attacks: 2.25 hits 1.875 kills Squad: 25 attacks: 18.75 hits 6.25 kills 10.49 kills In this case, charging with Furious Charge, Unleash Rage beats any version of Might of Heroes. I also worked it out for a round of combat where the squad gets charged (no +1 S) and ignoring the initiative values Unleash Rage won again. I have also worked out charging without furious charge, and Unleash Rage beats Might of Heroes again. So statistically Unleash Rage in this situation will be more effective, however this may be different for different units or with lucky/ unlucky dice rolls Imagine How much damage a unit with an epistolary with Unleash rage and Might of heroes could do? :-p hi guys, i like the sound of MOH. I was thinking, if you can attach an IC to any unit, surely, you can attach a libarian to a libraian dreadnought? then you can get the +d3 attacks twice! and potentially 10 strength ten attacks is not to be sniffed at! is this pheasable? You cannot attach an Independent Character to a Vehicle as stated in the BRB I am afraid. FOXX Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2623001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Mungo Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thanks for the rundown, Foxx! I thought it would be closer. :rolleyes: If you have the patience for it, could you run the same squad vs say a Trygon (or Nob bikers)? And maybe same squad+Astorath vs hammernators? For simplicity you could just average MoH to +2A. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2623012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thanks for this Fox! Just need to add though, the Libby with 10 man squad is the ultimate situation for Unleash Rage. The point made is that it is more versatile than Unleash Rage because it can be used well in more situations. Say: a 5 man RAS, or with a Sang Guard, or with a squad nearly decimated except the special weapon. Also, Unleash Rage is worse than Might of Heroes when all your attacks otherwise bounce off a monstrous creature or Dreadnought in CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2623017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RC71C FOXX Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 This is true Devlonir, for the sake of my sanity I chose a fairly simple unit to run the calculations with :-p . I am inclined to think that Unleash Rage is perhaps a better power in most situations, as it allows you to re-roll all of your failed hits, whereas MoH only provides 3 extra attacks. If the Librarian was on his own then I think MoH would be better, or if you were against a Dread with a Libby and PF Sgt. then yes MoH for the fist. However in a more "normal" situation- Libby + squad vs infantry e.g. I think UR would serve you better as it means any failed hit can be re-rolled (which in essence is similar to being given an extra number of attacks equal to the number of misses you make first time) . In most situations when there is a squad with the Libby this will be more than 3 re-rolls, even if you have a higher WS you still only hit 2/3 the time, so 5 Assault marines (excluding a sgt.) on the charge vs guard will hit on average 10/15 times-meaning with UR these 5 men would get 5 extra attacks-over the 3 extra from MoH. Of course you are unlikely to give extra attacks to a standard Marine, more likely to a Fist, or a Power Weapon. Even still I think unless you have a very small number of models accompanying the Librarian, I think UR would serve better. e.g. Charging: Librarian Power Fist Sgt. 5 Assault Marines (BP/CCW) Librarian (L): 4 attacks (power weapon) Sergeant (S): 3 attacks (Fist Marines (M): 15 attacks Total 22 attacks Vs WS4 average hits: L: 2.66 S: 1.5 M: 7.5 with Unleash Rage you would get: 1.33 re-rolls "extra attacks" for the Librarian 1.5 re-rolls "extra attacks" for the Sergeant 7.5 re-rolls "extra attacks" for the Marines Total: 10.33 re-rolls "extra attacks" Leading to: 0.886 hits for Libby 0.75 hit for Sgt 3.75 hits for marines total hits: Librarian: 3.546 Sergeant: 2.25 Marines: 11.25 Total: 17.046 Total: 9.546 Dead Space Marines With Might of Heroes: Give the Librarian 3 extra attacks: 7 Force Weapon 3 Fist 15 Regular 4.66 Force hits 1.5 Fist hits 7.5 Regular hits Total: 13.66 Total: 8.66 Dead Space Marines Give The Sgt. 3 extra attacks: 4 Force Weapon 6 Fist 15 Regular 2.66 Force 3 Fist 7.5 Regular Total: 13.16 hits Total: 8.16 Dead Space Marines However if verses a multi wound IC or a vehicle, such as dreadnought, then I think the MoH will be better, as extra chances of getting that Force Weapon wound (assuming Epistolary upgrade) verses an IC, or the extra attacks of a far superior weapon in a power fist versus krak grenades against a vehicle, esecially verses a dread. I hope that hasn't been too confusing to read, but I think my overall conclusion is that Unleash Rage is perhaps a more versatile power, but in the right situation MoH can be devastating, such as giving a Librarian Dreadnought 3 extra attacks-not something you want to be on the recieving end of. If you have the patience for it, could you run the same squad vs say a Trygon (or Nob bikers)? And maybe same squad+Astorath vs hammernators? For simplicity you could just average MoH to +2A. If you provide me the Weapon Skill, Toughness, Armour Save/Invun Save of the units then I can give it a go if I find some time. Bear in mind this would not include Initiative values, so it would be a best case scenario of the opponent not damaging your models. FOXX Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2623127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 dang, was kinda hoping the numbers would prove me wrong :) yea i could easily see MoH beeing more feasible (versus ^6 or higher MC's mostly) but against anything other then that UR beats it by a landslide sadly... this is most likely an awesome upgrade for a furioso liby though. as has been mentioned it cant join a unit so will have to do as much carnage as possible on its own ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2623510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vharing Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Whenever I take a libby with the upgrade I give him might and rage. My all time two favorite powers. Slap him and a RAS in a transport. Then I can have the extra attacks on whatever I need whether it be PF or PW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2623921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurb Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 My Libby Dread's standard powers are Wings and MoH. I love the expression on my foe's face when he gets 7 S10 attacks on WS6 heading his way when i charge and roll a 5 or 6. Like a LibbyDread with a deffrolla. <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219848-might-of-heroes/#findComment-2623940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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