Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Because the original of that format was a single Wall o' Text, whereas those paragraphs seperate it neatly :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2629510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I thought all Astartes believe that they are near perfect, its very hard to seperate arrogance from confidence in terms of marines without becoming prey of slanesh. As far as the statement being made about Terra, there are several Space Marine Chapters such as the Space Wolf or the Ultramarines who believe if they were there with the Emperor it would have never happen, that doesnt make them arrogant. ;) seriously spinkling dirt on other planets, I can see other chapters laughing at this ceremony. I think you have the we do stuff better bug. For example the statement in your first post about reliability, all chapters have a reputation for reliablility if they didnt they wouldnt be marines. "When the Imperium is on its last hopes in a war, the Steel Wyverns are called for specifically", that quote alone proves my point. All chapters are equals except for the first founding chapters who have more prestige and influence. You can make your chapter different, better in certain areas, and cool but never superior. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2629741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 It depends on the viewpoint. The Astartes are more than human,but they are engineered to take every positive trait of humanity and make it greater(1), whereas an abhuman is generally a being with degenerated/degenerating DNA(2). (1) - Questionable at best, wrong at worst. The positive traits of humanity, as you call them, come from the selection process, training and indoctrination, not because of gene-seed. (2) Abhumans are sub-species of humans. Their DNA is not degenerated, just different. And this has a basis in fluff; Black Templars and Red Scorpians spring to mind immediately. And who said these are not arrogant hypocrites?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2630093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XKhalilX Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 abhumans are still not human per say, and thus the Steel Wyverns consider them "mutated" or less then a human. they won't fight alongside something they consider impure. " seriously spinkling dirt on other planets, I can see other chapters laughing at this ceremony." they can laugh all they want. each chapter has its own quirks. this is something the Wyverns hold, that their home world is sacred and holy and they never wish to "leave it behind." it ties into the millenia after millenia of oppression of their homeworld. They never want to lose it. This sanctifies the ground and makes it fit for war. If I recall, the Iron Snakes (or only their chaplains) carried water from Ithaka, but I could be wrong. every chapter has a specialized form of fighting, some are quick and fast, others are about long rage, or ship boarding, some are close combat, others defensive and fortification, etc etc. The Steel Wyverns specialize in long protracted wars/battles of attrition. They were dealt this hand under the oppression of Dark Eldar, so they know better then most how to outlast an enemy. If the Imperium sees a long drawn out war that may take months or years, chances are there not going to call on the White Scars for example. If you know there needs to be alot of close combat, likewise youd look for those who are experts in this area such as BA or SW. There is nothing wrong with a chapter "specializing" in a form of war. I never said they ARE superior, they themselves believe they are. BIG difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2630541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XKhalilX Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 *I will replace Gaul, Gaulthia Prime, Gaul Stars once everything is completed. The Steel Wyverns are characterized by their extreme abhorrence of abhumans and Xenos. They believe in purity above all, and any weakness shown amongst their people is shown as a mark of deviant genetics. Their extreme xenophobia has put them in conflict on the battlefield with Imperial regiments that allow abhumans in their ranks, to the point that they will not allow any other then humans and adeptus astartes to enter the Gaul Stars of which they protect and patrol. Due to this, they have an extremely strong alliance with the Ordo Xenos, often sending battle brothers to spend time in the Deathwatch. They pride themselves on their unyielding devotion to the Imperium and that of the Emperor of Mankind. They believe they are the inheritors of the Emperor's Great Crusade. Being isolated for so long and still clinging to their faith in the Emperor has given them a belief in their righteousness and superiority. Having their own unique form of Low Gothic that no offworlders understand further deepens their belief in what they perceive to be their “destiny of purity.” Man is the pinnacle of creation, and humankind must be defended and preserved. The chapter believes the people of Gaul are the standard for which the rest of humankind must follow. The chapter spends equal time in training for combat as well as spiritual devotion and monasticism. "I have noted a particular mutation of the Betchers Gland in the astartes of the Steel Wyverns. The mutation is twofold: it has allowed the marines a far more corrosive and venemous saliva then their fellow astartes of other chapters, and also allows a Steel Wyvern the ability to spit their saliva at a much greater distance and concentration.” -Magos Biologist Rharn Upedus- The genetic mutation of the Betchers Gland is seen as a gift from the Great Wyrm, blessing each astartes with a fraction of His abilities. The apothecarian of the Chapter sees this genetic deviation not as a mutation but as a step in the evolution of an astartes. Space Marine chapters throughout the Imperium have uinique abilities and appearances due to their gene-seed genetic codings and the Steel Wyverns are no exception. Chief Acolyte Ramos examines the gene-seed carefully to record any possibility of further mutation. So far the gene-seed has shown to be stable. The Steel Wyverns gene-seed originates from the Iron Snakes. Like the marines of Ithaka, the Steel Wyverns do not know to whom their gene-seed originates from. They hold all the loyal primarchs in deep respect, however they tend to revere Gulliman for his wisdom and war tactics, and Vulkan for his compassion towards humanity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2630721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 every chapter has a specialized form of fighting, some are quick and fast, others are about long rage, or ship boarding, some are close combat, others defensive and fortification, etc etc. Highlighted part was true during the Great Crusade and days of legions, but in current era this is not true anymore. The Steel Wyverns specialize in long protracted wars/battles of attrition. I'm not going to comment on the validity of this tactic/strategy in general, but I would like to see how you are going to advocate the use of such tactic. The other name for War/Battle of Attrition is Meat-Grinder. Basically, you are throwing your units at enemy, in (vain - in most cases) hope, to deal more damage than enemy can sustain or replace in long run term, before you run out of soldiers, ammunition and weapons. The problem with said tactic is that Space Marines Chapter doesn't possess the tools, resources and numbers to win such conflict. It could arguably work against Eldar or to some degree against Chaos, but it will be nigh to useless against the Orks or later against Tyranids. The specialization of Space Marines is Killing Blow: hit fast, hit hard. 99,9% of marines fight like that, only the execution of this "strategy" may vary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2631388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XKhalilX Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 I wouldnt consider ones such as the Imperial Fists or Black Templars or Salamanders or Iron hands to fight the hit hard and fast. The Salamanders seem to be very methodical, same with Iron hands, for two different reasons. The Sallies seem to calculate based on possibility of collateral damage of innocent imperial life, while Iron Hands calculate simply because its their nature to seem to be precise and logical, there very stoic. Whereas Black Templars will run themselves through long drawn crusades. There more for long conflict then short battles, talking wars of months or years rather then battles of days or weeks. Its not about tossing ur companies into a meat grinder and see who comes out on top. Its about Punishing the enemy, taking ground piece by piece. or in urban setting, block by block Rather then slam in their and risk collateral damage of imperial life, or even risk possible injury or death of comrades in arms of your chapter, other chapters or IG. The way you define things, it sounds and its just my thought process, you see all marines in the white scars, raven guard, flesh tearer role. I don't think 99.9% of marines are the hit hard hit fast type. One can outlast their enemy without taking a serious hit in their ranks. People do this today as well. You could think of the Spartan battle of thermopolaye in a sense as a battle of attrition. Greatly outnumbered, they kept grinding the Persian forces down. That is what I envision. Again, based on their history, attrition and survival is something they are accustom to. And again, these are astartes, not Imperial Guard. The IG, now thats tossing thousands onto the enemy like a meat grinder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2632702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Remember to try to answer our questions in your IA and not in your post, a good IA will explain the reason why they fight a certain way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2632794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XKhalilX Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Remember to try to answer our questions in your IA and not in your post, a good IA will explain the reason why they fight a certain way. i will once i get to that section. like i said im breaking it down piece by piece. so far people arent focusing on whats been posted Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2632795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 You are right I was following the conversation not the post, sorry. :) The first 2 sections are good, the only thing that is questionable is them liking the primarchs. Vulkan likes everyone regardless of their background, while your chapter seems to hate outsiders. I am skipping ahead here again but with your chapter having a different battle doctrine that strays away from the Codex Astartes, which was written by Guilleman. I think you should go with the theme of we do it correctly and everyone else is doing it wrong idea. Its neat and different you just have to justify it and word it correctly, I look forward to your next update! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2632817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Vulkan hated the enemies of mankind and was a long way away from St Francis of Assisi, just for the record. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2633092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XKhalilX Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 You are right I was following the conversation not the post, sorry. :lol: The first 2 sections are good, the only thing that is questionable is them liking the primarchs. Vulkan likes everyone regardless of their background, while your chapter seems to hate outsiders. I am skipping ahead here again but with your chapter having a different battle doctrine that strays away from the Codex Astartes, which was written by Guilleman. I think you should go with the theme of we do it correctly and everyone else is doing it wrong idea. Its neat and different you just have to justify it and word it correctly, I look forward to your next update! I'm not a fan of them following the Codex for a few reasons.they are successor of Iron Snakes, who are one of the most non codex chapters in all the Imperium. If your not familiar with them, look them up on the lexicanum, there chapter organization is so different, id say they are by far the most non-codex coherent chapter around, alongside the Black Templars. So when they were first being trained, they may not have even learned about the codex to begin with. It would be like the Space Wolves training someone and expecting them to follow the codex. Just doesn't match up. Second, im not a fan of purely codex adherent chapters, i just don't find alot of fun in them personally, but there are exceptions. Vulkan was a loving primarch, but he loved humanity and nothing else. He certainly wouldnt be compassionate towards mutants or xenos. And technically speaking, the abhumans are mutated forms of homo sapiens, whether its outright mutation or evolution. regardless, there not human anymore. Hence why the Steel Wyverns are disgusted by them. There respect for Vulkan is his love towards humanity. There respect for Gulliman is his ability to salvage the legions and defend the Imperium at its weakest and most vulnerable. Vulkan is honor, Gulliman is bravery. These are two of the key aspects the chapter lives for. Honor. Bravery. Glory. Hatred. Hatred being hating anything that goes against humanity in terms of loyalty to the Emperor and also goes against the very essence of humanity such as being human, who Steel Wyverns consider the greatest of creation and asartes the epitome of human perfection. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2633124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I am suppose to get this There respect for Vulkan is his love towards humanity. There respect for Gulliman is his ability to salvage the legions and defend the Imperium at its weakest and most vulnerable. Vulkan is honor, Gulliman is bravery. These are two of the key aspects the chapter lives for. Honor. Bravery. Glory. Hatred. Hatred being hating anything that goes against humanity in terms of loyalty to the Emperor and also goes against the very essence of humanity such as being human, who Steel Wyverns consider the greatest of creation and asartes the epitome of human perfection. out of this The Steel Wyverns gene-seed originates from the Iron Snakes. Like the marines of Ithaka, the Steel Wyverns do not know to whom their gene-seed originates from. They hold all the loyal primarchs in deep respect, however they tend to revere Gulliman for his wisdom and war tactics, and Vulkan for his compassion towards humanity. I understand what you mean, now that you explain it to me, but the reader doesnt know that those two primarchs represents honor and bravery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2634252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XKhalilX Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 CKO, i get you, i will adjust it accordingly today. outside of that, does everything else read well? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2634476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 From those 2 sections the primarch thing was the only iffy part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219908-steel-wyverns/page/3/#findComment-2635647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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