Questions about Point Cost

[Nias Wolf]

I've been pouring over the codex and the internet for a couple hours, trying to find the hidden meaning in the wording. Unfortunately, I just can't definitively figure it out. I have 3 questions about the old points system, the one that Witch Hunters still uses.

 

Question 1: Special Characters. I'll use Saint Celestine as an example. In the codex, it says Saint Celestine may be included in any army of 1,500 points or more. Unfortunately, this baffles me. Does the 1,500 point mark include Saint Celestine? If the army is exactly 1,500 points, can Saint Celestine be in it? Or does any army that feilds her need to be 1,701 points due to her 201 point cost.

 

Question 2: Veteran Upgrade. Lets use the Veteran Superior as an example. Does she cost 14 points, or 25 points? The standard sister costs 11 points, and the upgrade to veteran costs 14 points. Therefore the model itself is a total of 25 points (without any extra equipment) right?

 

Question 3: The Witch Hunters Armoury. We'll use the Veteran Sister Superior again. We'll assume she is 25 points (I think that's right). Now, she exchanged her bolter for a bolt pistol and close combat weapon, but wants to buy an upgrade. Lets say a plasma pistol, as per the one in the (discontinued) box set. The plasma pistol costs 15 points. This would bring her to 40 points right? OR does she have to pay 1 additional point for the close combat weapon, bringing her to 41? I read somewhere that any unit that purchases stuff from the armory has to purchase all of their equipment from the armory. Implying that they have no base equipment to start out with. That would suck. :)

 

Thank you B & C for all of your help. Your ability to decode the rules borders on that of a psyker. Edits due to spelling

[dswanick]

Question 1: Special Characters. I'll use Saint Celestine as an example. In the codex, it says Saint Celestine may be included in any army of 1,500 points or more. Unfortunately, this baffles me. Does the 1,500 point mark include Saint Celestine? If the army is exactly 1,500 points, can Saint Celestine be in it? Or does any army that feilds her need to be 1,701 points due to her 201 point cost.

If the army is 1,500pts or more it may include Saint Celestine. So the 1,500pt limit is inclusive of St. Celestine's 201pt cost.

Question 2: Veteran Upgrade. Lets use the Veteran Superior as an example. Does she cost 14 points, or 25 points? The standard sister costs 11 points, and the upgrade to veteran costs 14 points. Therefore the model itself is a total of 25 points (without any extra equipment) right?

The Sister Superior is a Battle Sister costing 11pts. The Vet. Sister is an upgrade, replacing that model which costs an additional 14pts. So, you buy the Sister Superior and then upgrade her, total cost 25pts.

Question 3: The Witch Hunters Armoury. We'll use the Veteran Sister Superior again. We'll assume she is 25 points (I think that's right). Now, she exchanged her bolter for a bolt pistol and close combat weapon, but wants to buy an upgrade. Lets say a plasma pistol, as per the one in the (discontinued) box set. The plasma pistol costs 15 points. This would bring her to 40 points right? OR does she have to pay 1 additional point for the close combat weapon, bringing her to 41? I read somewhere that any unit that purchases stuff from the armory has to purchase all of their equipment from the armory. Implying that they have no base equipment to start out with. That would suck.

Nowhere in the rules can I find a statement removing any wargear already possessed by the model, so you buy the Plasma Pistol and discard either the bolt pistol or the close combat weapon (as the rule does say she may have at most two weapons). So, a Veteran Sister Superior with a Plasma Psitol and either a Bolt Pistol or CCW costs a total of 40pts.

Just as a side note - I would replace the CCW with the Plasma pistol, thus having the model equipped with a PP/BP combo, because the Bolt Pistol will still give the +1 Attacks and will also allow the model to choose to fire the Plasma Pistol on hard targets or the Bolt Pistol on light targets (avoiding the Overheat danger).

[Inquisitor Fox]

dswanick is correct on all points :) Myself, I give my VSS upgrades a bolt pistol (free) / power weapon combo, as I despise Necrons and seem to always inevitably end up in melee. Perhaps I need to tone down the aggressiveness ;)

 

The statement about purchasing equipment and not starting with any is sort of right, but not really. An Inquisitor, Adepta Sororitas Heroine, and Inquisitor Lord all have no weapons intially, all weapons must be bought. They do start with armor however. These models must be pretty much equipped entirely from the armory.

 

The upgrades do start with everything in their entry. The only thing to remember is our armory still has the silly two handed and one handed weapon descriptions, as well as a restriction that you can only ever have two weapons. Go figure. I look forward to when this goes the way of the dodo, but until it does we gotta play with the hand we're dealt :) We'll just win with style anyway...

[Nias Wolf]

Thank you two. It seems I had it mostly figured out, but your help is invaluable. dswanick, I LOVE the idea of a VSS duel weilding pistols! Unfortunatly, since I play with metal models my bits box is very small, comprised only of extra immolator bits and a few stray guard pieces. Well, that and the left overs of my dabble into chaos. But giving a Sister of Battle a chaos bolt pistol just feels... very very wrong. Even if I shaved off the insignia, I'd worry about an Inquisitor showing up at my dorrstep! Anyway, plastic models will be a great help.

[Eremiel]

dswanick is correct on all points :) Myself, I give my VSS upgrades a bolt pistol (free) / power weapon combo, as I despise Necrons and seem to always inevitably end up in melee. Perhaps I need to tone down the aggressiveness ;)

 

See, here I usually give my Canoness a jump pack, Evis and an inferno pistol. She hops around the battlefield blowing up tanks and sometimes attacking monstrous targets or other leaders (I usually fight 'Nids and Chaos Marines). Sure, I die sometimes, but when she is able to knock off Carnifexi and the like, it really pays off. :P

 

P.S. Full load out on Canon:

 

Jump Pack

Inferno Pistol

Eviscerator

BoSL

Cloak of St. Aspira

 

Occasionally I'll use the Mantle of Ophelia if I get a wild hair. Every assault she makes will be using a faith to make armor saves invuln's due to Monstrous/Power Wpn/ChainFist etc. I only wish they would let the SoB HQ units use a psychic hood or something like that. My ChSM opponent usually uses Warp Time to gain a bunch or re-rolls and holds them for saves and such.

[*Furyou Miko]

See, here I usually give my Canoness a jump pack, Evis and an inferno pistol. She hops around the battlefield blowing up tanks and sometimes attacking monstrous targets or other leaders (I usually fight 'Nids and Chaos Marines). Sure, I die sometimes, but when she is able to knock off Carnifexi and the like, it really pays off. :tu:

 

Yeah, I so didn't misread that as "...a jump pack, Elvis and..."

 

There's no reason not to give her a standard plastic bolt pistol from a Marine sprue. Surely you could cadge one off another gamer/modeller if you smile nicely enough at them.

[Eremiel]

See, here I usually give my Canoness a jump pack, Evis and an inferno pistol. She hops around the battlefield blowing up tanks and sometimes attacking monstrous targets or other leaders (I usually fight 'Nids and Chaos Marines). Sure, I die sometimes, but when she is able to knock off Carnifexi and the like, it really pays off. :tu:

 

Yeah, I so didn't misread that as "...a jump pack, Elvis and..."

 

There's no reason not to give her a standard plastic bolt pistol from a Marine sprue. Surely you could cadge one off another gamer/modeller if you smile nicely enough at them.

 

And when I swing the Elvis, it's the hip action that actually does most of the damage.

[Nias Wolf]

I'm looking into the warstore .com. Unfortunatly, I'm just not feeling up to going into GW yet. I'm bad at dealing with groups of people. Question: BoSL is the Book of Saint... someone... right? Does the leadership bonus really come into use that often?

 

I can just see it, a little pewter Elvis with his "The King" coat and a microphone... being swung by the ankle... by an angy space nun...

 

Side Note: I'm concidering joining some kind of image hosting site to post some pictures on here. The problem is that I loathe (honestly) technology.

[RolandTHTG]

Occasionally I'll use the Mantle of Ophelia if I get a wild hair. Every assault she makes will be using a faith to make armor saves invuln's due to Monstrous/Power Wpn/ChainFist etc. I only wish they would let the SoB HQ units use a psychic hood or something like that. My ChSM opponent usually uses Warp Time to gain a bunch or re-rolls and holds them for saves and such.

 

And here is where I use my, ahem, 'familiarity' with the CSM codex to inform you and your opponent that Warp time only allows rerolls to hit and to wound (see pg 88), it does nothing to help the Chaos Sorcerer to survive. :woot: So go back there an really start taking names.

 

Nias, I recommend checking out the album that you get as a B&C member, you should be able to access it from your profile control panel.

[Nias Wolf]

Nias, I recommend checking out the album that you get as a B&C member, you should be able to access it from your profile control panel.

 

HHUUWWAAAH!?

 

Well, that simplifies things a bit! Thanks TJWyrm, that really helps. Now to figure out cameras and files and stuff...

[Eremiel]

Occasionally I'll use the Mantle of Ophelia if I get a wild hair. Every assault she makes will be using a faith to make armor saves invuln's due to Monstrous/Power Wpn/ChainFist etc. I only wish they would let the SoB HQ units use a psychic hood or something like that. My ChSM opponent usually uses Warp Time to gain a bunch or re-rolls and holds them for saves and such.

 

And here is where I use my, ahem, 'familiarity' with the CSM codex to inform you and your opponent that Warp time only allows rerolls to hit and to wound (see pg 88), it does nothing to help the Chaos Sorcerer to survive. :lol: So go back there an really start taking names.

 

 

Nice catch. Yes it only allows rerolls on hits and wounds. Doesn't take away from the point, which was I'd like to have access to the psy hood to deny them such an ability. The more dice I have to roll on saves means a higher probability of me rolling a "1".

[Inquisitor Fox]

Best way to have a psychic hood in a Witch Hunters army is the inclusion of an Inquisitor (who's already in the Codex), who can also have such psychic powers as "Hammer of the Witches" which can be loads of fun :huh:

[Fredegar Kadere]

I'm looking into the warstore .com. Unfortunatly, I'm just not feeling up to going into GW yet. I'm bad at dealing with groups of people. Question: BoSL is the Book of Saint... someone... right? Does the leadership bonus really come into use that often?

 

Book of St Lucius: Depending on how you interpret it the Book makes any squad that uses it Stubborn, as well as extending a 6" bubble around the book bearer for other squads to piggyback the same. The low price point of the book makes it invaluable and a must have for any squads that you expect to be involved in the thick of hand to hand battle. My Canoness with Retinue and Seraphim squad never leave home without the Book. I will generally give a book to one or two of my Battle Sister squads that I use as my front line forces for objective denial or objective holding.