Close Air Support

[captain sox]

This is very intriguing to me.

 

I plan to do the exact opposite with mine, and use it as a heavy support choice, not a troop transport. Generally I agree with you about everything, and this tactica is top notch. I play all Scouts all the time, so to me, it is thier mobile Dev Squad that comes to the rescue (of what's left of my army)!

[igotsmeakabob!!]

I think you left out the (to me) preferable idea of loading Lemartes in the raven with 8-10 non-jump pack equipped Death Company. It's a heavy-hitting Death Star unit and its cost is comparable to that of 5 DC with packs (which are just too damned expensive for me to ever consider).

 

You get to use Lemartes AND you have a large unit capable of taking hits after they destroy whatever unit they charged out of the Raven.

My favorite loadout though is a Terminator/SS Epistolary with 5 Assault Terminators.

[Demoulius]

horrible pointsink m8. if the transport gets taken down (or immobilised) more then half of your army is stranded, which si quite frankly not what you want :teehee:

What would you consider the maximum load pointwise for a Stormraven?

a maximum? well dont know man but a transport worth 200 pts transporting 600 pts of cargo? doesent sound like such a bad idea. the land raider can also do this but thats 14/14/14 <_<

 

tbh if you wield a storm raven with any kind of dangerous cargo have other likewise dangerous targets nearby as well. otherwise it will be rather easy for your opponent to decide on what to shoot. taking a SR down with VV's and a furioso wont mean that much if a land raider (or other SR etc) then does get to throw its cargo in the melee uncontested does it ;)

 

i think the SR should be seen as a force multiplier very much the same as our libies and priests. its a transport (who is heavily armed to boot) and thus adds mobility to the list. you can equip it with a homer to land...well anything really which would make it an ever bigger target BUT if it could land the unit where you want and how you want it, it just adds even more to your list then it would without :)

 

the point that i want to make though is that it isent as durable as we would like. its AV 12/12/12. and while its immume to the melta rule, every melta weapon in the game will still glance it with AP roll of 4. (and seeing as all melta weapons are generally AP1 as well thats a very bad thing <_<) missle launchers glance it on a 4, lascannons on a 3. etc etc. if you find some tricks to prolong its life (whatever cover save or a target rich enviroment) then it will shine. if you make the same mistake as i did (put on the table with only a speeder alongside it as armour) it will either be turned into a fireball very quikly or at least stunned/shaken so long that it wont have an impact on the game at all...

 

and since its base costs is 200 pts...eh...thats a bad thing ;)

[Drachnon]

I'm planning to get one once I have saved up some cash for it and I'll probably use the following load out.

 

Twin-linked multi melta

Twin-linked assault cannon

Hurricane bolters

Extra armour

 

Then in it would go 10 assault marines without their JP, instead there's be a lazorback as backup for the stormraven. Add a priest and reclusiarch and it becomes a pretty scary, and expensive, unit. Tactica for the build would be getting within 12" range of enemy troops and fire everything at them with the exception of the multi melta which targets a vehicle if possible. While mostly anti troop the multi melta is still needed to open transports while allowing the rest of the weapons to target the squad inside (unless this is not possible but I think it is). Helping with the transport opening is the lazorback.

[Grizzly Adams]

I run DoA and my biggest weakness is being able to pop a transport, but not having the movement to get it in CC. Its also nice to get dreads in a DoA list.

Am I missing something here? The Storm Raven does not get DoA, neither the reserve reroll nor the higher DS accuracy. What's the benefit of either DSing with 2D6 scatter or moving in form the table edge without being able to assault on turn 2 or later, instead of putting the Storm Raven on the table on turn 1?

 

move it flat out onto the board and get that 4+ cover. Stormravens don't have smoke, so if you DS it, it is a sitting duck :lol:

 

I run one in every BA list i build. My loadout -

- Stormraven

- - - EA, MM, AC

- Chappie

- 10x Death Co.

- - - 1x PF, 3x PW

- DC Dread

- - - Blood Talons

 

Been runnin it for 6 months or so, and let me tell ya, it is a hammer!

[Demoulius]

move it flat out onto the board and get that 4+ cover. Stormravens don't have smoke, so if you DS it, it is a sitting duck sad.gif

 

tbh even with a 4+ save its still to much of a sitting duck....50/50 chance of avoiding damage on an AV12/12/12 vehicle? its to easy to damage if your opponent has no other targets to shoot at :D

[Grizzly Adams]

move it flat out onto the board and get that 4+ cover. Stormravens don't have smoke, so if you DS it, it is a sitting duck sad.gif

 

tbh even with a 4+ save its still to much of a sitting duck....50/50 chance of avoiding damage on an AV12/12/12 vehicle? its to easy to damage if your opponent has no other targets to shoot at :)

 

it is a fire magnet for sure, but i'd rather have a 4+ and be half way across the board then DS it and have nothin or get popped in my deployment zone. In my experiences, i have never had my Raven not get at least 3/4 of the way across the board, and by that point, its too late. If i had to choose between being closer to where i want with a 4+ or without it, i'll take the save every time.

[Chairman_woo]

I like a single raven as part of an otherwie all jump pack list. Seems mental but if it starts in reserve (not DS) it will very likely appear either at the same time as most of your JPers or in the turn or two after. It adds some long range fire support (something DOA armies generally lack) and fits the theme of the army I assume all the JP units deployed by thunderhawk or raven anyway, just one stuck around to provide CAS.

 

You would be suprised how long they can last once you have had a turn or 2 to get to grips with the enemy especially when its empty. If the enemy shoots at it that generally means less low AP wounds ignoreing your FNP and fancy armour saves, this might not be ideal but it does count in your favour at least.

 

Storm raven + DOA army, not optimal but entirely viable (and very fluffy)

[Chairman_woo]

Also if put a unit with JP in the raven (very much inc libby dread) being shot down isent half as much of an inconvienience as it would be for the average assault unit as you still have your 12" move. This also means that jumping out before the raven moves still nets you 12" + 6" assault, and means the raven is free to fly off and do what it wants that turn, if you are within 18" of your intended target this is often better than driving (flying) up to them.

[Quixus]

I was thinking about using another one with the same weapons configuration as above loaded with a full Tac Squad or a RAS without jump packs and another dread.

 

Is it unsportsmalike not to tell your opponent which vehicle carries which squad?

[ancient god]

I was thinking about using another one with the same weapons configuration as above loaded with a full Tac Squad or a RAS without jump packs and another dread.

 

Is it unsportsmalike not to tell your opponent which vehicle carries which squad?

 

Yes, quite unsportsmanlike! The BRB advises that you should make it clear to your opponent which vehicle holds which squad at all times.

[Till]

I run DoA and my biggest weakness is being able to pop a transport, but not having the movement to get it in CC. Its also nice to get dreads in a DoA list.

Am I missing something here? The Storm Raven does not get DoA, neither the reserve reroll nor the higher DS accuracy. What's the benefit of either DSing with 2D6 scatter or moving in form the table edge without being able to assault on turn 2 or later, instead of putting the Storm Raven on the table on turn 1?

 

 

No you're not missing anything, but you're looking too far into it. You dont have to have a model with the DoA rules to fit well in an army that predominantly does.

[SamaNagol]

Stormravens are built for getting up close. They ignore Melta and also are unaffected by Lance. You still need a 5 to pen with Missiles anyway. You may as well get them right up in the face and drop off your cargo, get the assaults in and be done. Get as uch damage as you can asap, cos they aren't built to last.

 

And you will need to run at least 2 at 1500. 3 at 2000 or at least 2 and a Land Raider or else you don't have enough dangerous targets to saturate the enemy's focus.

[Demoulius]

tbh saying you need 2 STORMRAVENS at 1500 to provide enough armoured targets is abit much :P

 

vindicators and baals (depending on armies) make just as dangerous targets as the stormraven. but, a landraider (costly i know) with cargo would be the perfect partner for him (both dangerous cargo both assault ramp etc) if you dont want to go the double raven way. the rest of your army would suffer for having 2 such costly units in a 1500 pts game though....

[Till]

I plan on having 2 in 2500, and none in 1850. My 1850 is fine without them. Big thing is I dont wanna buy more crap I already have in my list to get to 2500.

[Mezkh]

Good stuff, my random thoughts.

 

-If you can't afford two stormravens, other good armour saturation targets are Vindicators, and Flamestorm Baals, to help take the heat off your high priority target.

 

-Skies of Blood and Teleport Homers; you didn't really say much about this. While the SR can deliver dreads and assaulty goodness, you can also use it to drop nasty guns in your opponent's face quickly. At first glance Skies of Blood is easily overlooked given you have an Assault ramp anyway. But if you add a Teleport Homer to your Stormraven, anything that drops out the back of it avoids rolling for DS scatter and doesn't test for casualties, even if it doesn't have a jump pack. For example, this means from turn one you can elect to boost your Storm Raven Flat Out (gaining cover and still being able to contibute itself with a multimelta), and unload stuff like Sternguard in rapidfire range, or perfect placement of a Multimelta/Melta on a Dread ensuring the 2D6 pen bonus (before your opponent can pop smoke!). Or even stuff like Shooty terminators who can place a perfect Heavy Flamer template.

 

On BA Sternguard, you can add a foot Priest or Corbulo, (avoiding the horrid 25 points for a JP) and this makes our Sternguard much better suited to employing the 'Gets Hot' options available for Str4/AP3 rapidfire or combi-plas Str7Ap2 at less risk to themselves, and a right pain to remove. It gives us another delivery option next to Drop Pods (unreliable scatter) or Rhinos (only 12" move+ disembark from the word go.).

 

 

-The option to Alphastrike on the SR is really cool. 4 Bloodstrike missles, a TL lascannon and maybe a multimelta at range first turn at up to two targets from POTMS is really good. That sort of firepower early can be much more valuable than a lesser number of shots per turn but consistent ROF spread over more turns.

[Captain Psycho]

I totally agree with running two ravens, just not sure what to put in them. At 2000 points I was thinking the first raven with 1 Termie Librarian + 5 man Termie Assualt Squad + Furioso, in the second raven 6 - 9 Death Company + Chaplain + DC Dread, a couple of tac squads to hold objectives in the backfield/midfield and fill out the FOC and that's it. The problem of course is that those two giant point sinks groups might not make it across the board but that's really what playing a list with two ravens comes down to, if both groups can get in to assault with the ravens providing fire support then its "game over man, game over," but if it goes bad on your opponents turn one man it is going to be an ugly game for the Sons of Sanguinius.

[gainesdp]

Nice work, but I wanted to comment on one section that caught my eye:

 

The Assault cannons have a much reduced range compared to the lascannons, however the mobility of the 'Raven makes this less of a drawback than it looks on paper. You get 4 Str6 shots with an AP of 4. Sounds like a no-brainer anti-Infantry weapon right? The AC has 2 advantages over the Lascannon when it comes to anti-armour work. First it's rending, any roll of a 6 to penetrate nets you between 1 and 3 additional points of "your armour is toilet paper", I'd advise against factoring Rending into any calculations however, it's useful but unreliable.

The second advantage is rate of fire, 4 shots with re-rolls as opposed to one. Against armour 13 or 14 the AC is pretty much useless and even AV12 relies on a rending shot. However many armies rely on AV10 or AV11 mechanised waves and against these armies the AC is king. Examples include ork speedfreak forces, Ravenwing Speeder swarms and Astartes Razorback hordes.

 

I think you're underestimating the AC. I don't remember the exact numbers (I'm sure someone has posted something recently), but my general recollection is that the AC out-performs the lascannon at high AV values for penetrating hits (i.e., AV 14). I think the lascannon should perform better at AV 13, but then the AC performs better at AV 12 and below.

 

Regardless, the takehome message in my mind, is that unless you want/need the AP 2 or the range, the AC is better (and, I don't have the codex handy, but it may be cheaper if the lascannon is an upgrade that costs points).

 

Finally, the AC is just much cooler as well.

[shatter]

Yip, TLAC is all round, generally and quite measurably superior to the TLLC except vs monoliths (living metal), ID and of course, considerations of range.

 

I think the SR has a fair PotMS solution for range targets via bloodstrike missiles which achieve much of the difference. ie T4 ID and range.

[Zealadin]

The Storm Raven is actually extremely hard hitting (with the right loadout), its also extremely expensive.

I'd argue about putting a squad inside it too.

In a mainly DoA list one of these with a dread can be quite useful.

As someone else mentioned its great for use with DC too.

 

The biggest drawback is AV12 so its not like a LR it requires real sublety and skill to use correctly.

[Dark Legionnare]

Awesome Tactical input thread mate! I do just that. I pack 6 DC and Lemartes in the Raven with a furioso on the back hook. Run in, nuke vehicle, fire off bolters, pop troops, assault and melt them with the DC re-rolls and Furioso blood talons.

[Whitefireinferno]

Yep Asscans will be staying for mine due to it is the Main theme of My Tearers the Asscans EVERYWHERE approach :D Mmm Crusaders,Baal,Assbacks and Stormravens Also they tend to work far better against MCs from what I have Noticed Four shots that can Instant wound are Great.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Aye, I use the TL-Lascannons because my army is all SG and I lack any anti-tank greater than range 6.

 

However in almost any other build the Assault Cannons are the way to go. Against Necrons the Plasma cannons start to look useful.

[Demoulius]

IIRC the monolith doesent ignore rending? :)

[JamesI]

IIRC the monolith doesent ignore rending? :)

Yes, it does. The monolith pretty much ignores everything (I've been told there is a second printing that is worded differently than the codex I have to the point that the monolith ignores tank hunters and the +1 strength from furious charge).