Demoulius Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 odd, played a game against a cron player a few weeks ago and he said that it doesent (after looking up the entry in his own codex :) ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2626072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 He might have the old printing codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2626092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisBC Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Aye, I use the TL-Lascannons because my army is all SG and I lack any anti-tank greater than range 6. However in almost any other build the Assault Cannons are the way to go. Against Necrons the Plasma cannons start to look useful. I like ye olde ass cannons myself, but I come up against a lot of power armour, so it'll probably be plasma cannons for me! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2626155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 IIRC the monolith doesent ignore rending? :wink: Yes, it does. The monolith pretty much ignores everything (I've been told there is a second printing that is worded differently than the codex I have to the point that the monolith ignores tank hunters and the +1 strength from furious charge). I'm paraphrasing here but it was reworded to something like this: "In practice a unit attacking a monolith only ever gets 1d6 + the basic strength of the attack" No rending, melta, lance or even 2d6 for being a Monsterous creature (AP1 still works tho) Edit: Please be aware that as JamesI said the rule was re worded in the reprint of the current necron codex and the current FAQ provides further clarification. This was a big cause of arguements untill GW addressed the issue as the old wording of the rule was absolutely terrible! The entry is still wrong tho, look at the rules for the flux reducing "the number of shots at each target by -1" basic maths fail GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2626180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Not a bad start. I don't think you've given the homing beacon a fair representation to be honest. Obviously for someone who only uses a DoA list of some sort or razorspam the beacon may not be as useful, but consider that the SR is the most durable (and mobile) unit yet that can get a beacon. It seems to me that this could be a big help to alpha-strike lists who want to get into the opponent's deployment zone quickly. Consider a single Stormraven can transport something like one furioso and an assault squad 24" on first turn. Now put a beacon on that SR, and you have the ability to drop two more furiosos in drop pods with pinpoint accuracy anywhere within 6" of the Raven. That pinpoint accuracy gives you three dreads and a squad on the ground (provided you use Skies of Blood to safely deploy the SR's contents directly behind the SR as suggested earlier). Add in a couple of scouting Flamestorm Baals, and you've got 5 metas, 1 Multi-melta, and five flame templates that you can project into your opponent's LZ from the word "go". My point is, the ability to put your models exactly where you want them on the first turn is well worth 10 points for some lists IMO. It also seems to me that a beacon would be very useful if you want to try using Heroic Intervention Vanguard. The SR is a big model (about 10"x10") add to that a 6" safe landing zone and a further 6" for charge range, and essentially, you've got a HI zone 34 inches in diameter. Anything within that zone would be fair game for your Vanguard. That seems pretty good to me, though I've not tried it myself. I'd also like people's thoughts on transporting jump troops vs regulars with the SR. It seems to me that jump troops would be handy for getting off a first-turn charge (SR moves 12", jumpers disembark and move 12" then charge 6" --or does disembarking count as movement for that turn? My assault vehicle rules are a little rusty). But since jumpers take up 2 slots, you're transport capacity is cut in half. Is it really worth the the 50% drop in hitting power for the increased assault range? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2626669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The problem is the Stormraven has to survive a round of shooting and enemy assaults for the beacon to work - that can be a tall order. G :teehee: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2626703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 If a model with a beacon is on the table at the beginning of the turn, the beacon is active. I can see your point when considering the Heroic Intervention idea since I suppose it could be taken out before your Vanguard are available from reserve, but it should still work for first turn alpha-strikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2626723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonny Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 first turn alphastrikes would seem near impossible like this, I think. the 2nd turn heroic intevrention seems mnore likely Seeing as how you start your turn by rolling for/deploying reserves, including the 1st turn drop pod assault, your stromraven hasn't moved yet - and thus can do no more than add an extra 6" to where you could normally deploy. Also, furiouso dreads from a pod can't assault that turn, thus slowing down the alpha strike considerably (even though a heavy flamer and melta or fragcannon can be very nice). the 2nd turn heroic intervention alpha strike seems much more scary to me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2626786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Dang. I just re-read the rules for deployment for Reserves and Drop Pod Assault and I guess you are correct. :) the 2nd turn heroic intervention alpha strike seems much more scary to me except you'll probably need several squads to reliably pull off a single HI on T2 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2626813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 TL Assault Cannon are statistically better at penetrating all armour values when compared to TL Lascannon. The only thing they suffer against are Monoliths and Waveserpents. / If you are running VGV and a Locator Beacon then just move the Storm Raven Flat Out for the 4++ save, rolls of 6 to be hit in CC, and still fire one weapon from POTMS. Next turn bring the VGV in off the Beacon and Charge away with the Veterans, the marines inside the SR and the Dreadnought hitching a ride on the back. Fun times. Even better with 2 of the things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2627155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpWalker Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Brother captain, I would like to see an updated list of your sanguinary guard army. I hear you're using two ravens and furiosos. This is got my attention. Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2651556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGABOND Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I run my Storm Raven with Twin Lascannon & Multi Melta with Extra Armour and Locator Beacon. I run an all Sanguinary Guard army and have my Furioso with Talons and a Sanguinary Guard squad packing 2 Infernus Pistols. Pretty hard hitting if I get the charge but mind you I put my Raven in reserve and have it come on from the board edge so it doesnt get blown up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2651938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parcival Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 TL Assault Cannon are statistically better at penetrating all armour values when compared to TL Lascannon. The only thing they suffer against are Monoliths and Waveserpents. Brother SamaNagol, I once attempted to calculate the odds of success for Assault Canons and Lascanons, but I failed. Can you show me the calculations? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2652000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kollar Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 TL Assault Cannon are statistically better at penetrating all armour values when compared to TL Lascannon. The only thing they suffer against are Monoliths and Waveserpents. Brother SamaNagol, I once attempted to calculate the odds of success for Assault Canons and Lascanons, but I failed. Can you show me the calculations? TL LASCANNON RESULTS vs AV 14 Shooting Vs Vehicles Attacker Group 1 vs Defender Group Calculations by Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) ----------------------------- Attackers Attacker Group 1 Shots: 1 Hit Chance: 88.89% Hits: 0.889 Glancing Chance: 16.67% Penetration Chance: 16.67% Glancing Hits: 0.148 Penetration Hits: 0.148 Shaken: 0.099 Stunned: 0.049 Weapon Destroyed: 0.049 Immobilized: 0.049 Wrecked: 0.025 Explodes: 0.025 Options: Reroll Hit ----------------------------- Defenders Defender Group Hits: 0.889 Glancing Hits: 0.148 Penetration Hits: 0.148 Results Shaken: 0.099 Stunned: 0.049 Weapon Destroyed: 0.049 Immobilized: 0.049 Wrecked: 0.025 Explodes: 0.025 ----------------------------- Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) TL ASS-CANNON RESULTS vs AV14 Shooting Vs Vehicles Attacker Group 1 vs Defender Group Calculations by Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) ----------------------------- Attackers Attacker Group 1 Shots: 4 Hit Chance: 88.89% Hits: 3.556 Glancing Chance: 5.56% Penetration Chance: 5.56% Glancing Hits: 0.198 Penetration Hits: 0.198 Shaken: 0.132 Stunned: 0.066 Weapon Destroyed: 0.066 Immobilized: 0.066 Wrecked: 0.033 Explodes: 0.033 Options: Reroll Hit, Rending ----------------------------- Defenders Defender Group Hits: 3.556 Glancing Hits: 0.198 Penetration Hits: 0.198 Results Shaken: 0.132 Stunned: 0.066 Weapon Destroyed: 0.066 Immobilized: 0.066 Wrecked: 0.033 Explodes: 0.033 ----------------------------- Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2652052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kollar Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Addendum: TL MULTI-MELTA (in "melta range") vs AV 14 Shooting Vs Vehicles Attacker Group 1 vs Defender Group Calculations by Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) ----------------------------- Attackers Attacker Group 1 Shots: 1 Hit Chance: 88.89% Hits: 0.889 Glancing Chance: 13.89% Penetration Chance: 58.33% Glancing Hits: 0.123 Penetration Hits: 0.519 Shaken: 0.041 Stunned: 0.107 Weapon Destroyed: 0.107 Immobilized: 0.107 Wrecked: 0.107 Explodes: 0.173 Options: Reroll Hit, 2d6 ----------------------------- Defenders Defender Group Hits: 0.889 Glancing Hits: 0.123 Penetration Hits: 0.519 Results Shaken: 0.041 Stunned: 0.107 Weapon Destroyed: 0.107 Immobilized: 0.107 Wrecked: 0.107 Explodes: 0.173 ----------------------------- Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2652056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou666 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Good stuff, my random thoughts. -If you can't afford two stormravens, other good armour saturation targets are Vindicators, and Flamestorm Baals, to help take the heat off your high priority target. -Skies of Blood and Teleport Homers; you didn't really say much about this. While the SR can deliver dreads and assaulty goodness, you can also use it to drop nasty guns in your opponent's face quickly. At first glance Skies of Blood is easily overlooked given you have an Assault ramp anyway. But if you add a Teleport Homer to your Stormraven, anything that drops out the back of it avoids rolling for DS scatter and doesn't test for casualties, even if it doesn't have a jump pack. For example, this means from turn one you can elect to boost your Storm Raven Flat Out (gaining cover and still being able to contibute itself with a multimelta), and unload stuff like Sternguard in rapidfire range, or perfect placement of a Multimelta/Melta on a Dread ensuring the 2D6 pen bonus (before your opponent can pop smoke!). Or even stuff like Shooty terminators who can place a perfect Heavy Flamer template. On BA Sternguard, you can add a foot Priest or Corbulo, (avoiding the horrid 25 points for a JP) and this makes our Sternguard much better suited to employing the 'Gets Hot' options available for Str4/AP3 rapidfire or combi-plas Str7Ap2 at less risk to themselves, and a right pain to remove. It gives us another delivery option next to Drop Pods (unreliable scatter) or Rhinos (only 12" move+ disembark from the word go.). -The option to Alphastrike on the SR is really cool. 4 Bloodstrike missles, a TL lascannon and maybe a multimelta at range first turn at up to two targets from POTMS is really good. That sort of firepower early can be much more valuable than a lesser number of shots per turn but consistent ROF spread over more turns. This is a piece of absolute genius, combining the locator beacon with the SOB deepstrike rules. Thankyou for pointing this out, mezhk! I shall be using this tactic alot nwith combi melta sternguard! <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2652663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parcival Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Brother kollar, that was very helpful! Thank you very much. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2653113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 The following setup is good: Assault cannon. Hurrincane bolters. Missile launchers. Against tanks: 2 krak missiles, bloodstrikes, assault cannon. Against infantry: Assault cannon, hurricane bolters, frag missiles. Frag missiles are strength 4 and therefore defensive, like the bothers, so if you are targeting a troops unit you can move in at a frightening speed and still unload all of your primary weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2727208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 But I doubt that you will get much chances to benefit from that expensive weaponary. From my point of view the SR is too expensive just to be a gunship. So you have to move flat out all the time to deliver the cargo as fast as you can. If the job is done you can try to use the Raven as a gunship but for me an Assault Cannon and MM should do. I don't believe that Hurricanes and Typhoons are very cost effective on a AV12 skimmer. Regards Sang Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-2727221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I made my first up with plasma cannons, I was still expecting a roll to hit, and then scatter if missed. A bit disapointing the new way, I'm toying with breaking apart the turret and doing one las one ass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-3079562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Updated for 6th edition now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-3136391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Couple of things: 1) 'Living Metal' doesnt protect from melta anymore. 2) The lascannon is on a turret mount, so can fire in any direction, even if the raven has flown past it's target. 3) Plasma cannons are (in my opinion) much more of a gamble now. Gets hot knocks off a hull point 50% of the time. Maybe put a techmarine on board :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-3136399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixestohit Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Great Tactica! Just an added though, the Necron living metal rule is a save against shaken and stunned now. You get 2d6 to penetrate a monolith since the last codex :lol: James. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-3136439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonMajick Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 You mention starting on the board with the SR. I thought that under 6th rules that we had to start in Reserves. Is that correct or did I drink the Koolaid? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-3136547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDunc Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 There's no longer the option to deploy the SR on the board. I think it's important to use the transport capacity of the SR. Considering how the flyer rules work now, it seems like fielding a SR allows for some excellent late game Eldar-like objective shenanigans. During deployment, load the SR with a combat squad of assault marines with jump packs, come on from reserves, spend a couple turns strafing the enemy line, then fly off the board. Come back on automatically turn 4 or 5 and Descend onto an objective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219950-close-air-support/page/3/#findComment-3136557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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