Can a warband be redeemed?

[Alys]

The whole "soul drinkers" view is interesting, but it seems that loyalist marines are more able to do that sort of thing than a Chaos Warband would. I can see the gods being a little possessive of their minions, especially those who have been gifted or marked in some way. Has there been records of legions, warbands etc, that have pulled away from chaos, possibly considering both sides to be bad, and gone their own way, and did they survive?

 

If they did, would they still have access to deamons (lesser/princes), as in the 'fluff' so far, the Chaos Sorcerer HQ is a radical Inquisitor with a Deamon Summoning 101 booklet? (Yes, I know it's a complete rip of Eisenhorn, but considering my DP will be the Inquisitor cherubael anyway, I feel it fits!)

 

If they did pull away, what would happen to those cult marines, that were indoctrinated into the group, or those who were marked, or carry icons of the gods? The Raptors, or the daemonic engines of war? Would they leave, would the T-Sons turn to dust, or the plague marines just fall apart?

 

I don't want a loyalist army. I find them a little too fanatical. I want a chaos force that has a "grand scheme", where both Chaos and the Imperium must fall.

[hushrong]

The closest thing you are going to get is the Sons of Malice besides just making up your own warband. They hate everything.

 

*and most Thousand Sons are dust already.

[Lexington]

I'm not sure we've ever seen examples of a "redeemed" Chaos Marine. There are Fallen Angels, though, who are said to have renounced Chaos and gone their own way.

 

At the end of the day, I'd say the whole thing's up to whoever's writing the story.

[Kamikaze14]

There are marines known as the "Black Shields" who appear at Deathwatch watch fortresses with no chapter markings and ask to join. The Deathwatch RPG book hints that some of these may be former Chaos Space Marines.

 

As for Chaos warbands that turn away from both Chaos and the Imperium, I don't know.

[Alys]

That's fair enough, I'll do the fluff on them, it's just I don't want to go through the fluff to be told "no warband can escape chaos! They wouldn't let them go! It's all wrong!"

 

It's basically, the lord of the warband that was originally loyalist, but was branded a traitor when he went repeatedly against orders when cleansing a world of chaos. It wasn't a chaos influence, like the Inquisition believed, but the fact that he saw too many innocents die for each heretic, and he started to question things. (Maybe, he wasn't the best candidate for gene-seed transplantation, maybe the indoctrination and training failed, maybe it WAS chaos!) He took a band of marines who shared his view with him, like most other renegades, he ended up joining the forces of Chaos. However, he realised at this point, that they are different sides of the same coin, a coin he does not wish to flip. An iron fist, vs terror. On his side is a member of the Inquisition, a radical Xanthist who also sees this view, but is primarily interested in finding a way to destroy Chaos, before turning her attention to the imperium.

 

Maybe they know they can't escape Chaos fully. Maybe instead, they are looking for a way to break the bonds that they feel the gods have on them, and thus travel from sector to sector, picking up re-enforcements and technology, while searching for relics that would help them in this endeavour.

[caboosebe]

Add a little note that there was an internal fight in the warband when the 'commander' wanted to go away from Chaos, and that his side won, and you'll have a pretty good story there mate.

As long as you don't say that it was a Legion group or something, (A 100 Black Legionairs spit Chaos in the face), it should be fine in my opinion. As the Legions would probably kill you faster then you could think about have a thought about planning in the future to drop Chaos.

[Eddie Orlock]

Maybe they know they can't escape Chaos fully. Maybe instead, they are looking for a way to break the bonds that they feel the gods have on them, and thus travel from sector to sector, picking up re-enforcements and technology, while searching for relics that would help them in this endeavour.

I felt like I was reading the tag-line to a cheesy sci-fi show while I was reading this.

 

In the days of yore, I seem to recall that redeeming the followers of chaos and breaking the bonds of the four was one of the potential powers of the Sensei. Perhaps a Champion was redeemed and so enlightened persuaded his redeemer to go with him on a series of raids and redeem his former colleagues. Thus sanctified they then set forth to once again do the Emperors work in driving back the dark and smitting aliens.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

See Badab War, though the path to redemption might not sit too well as an option given some of the hoops the Imperium makes the wayward Chapters jump through. ;)

[Alys]

I felt like I was reading the tag-line to a cheesy sci-fi show while I was reading this.

 

Badab Five? Warp Trek? :)

 

In the days of yore, I seem to recall that redeeming the followers of chaos and breaking the bonds of the four was one of the potential powers of the Sensei. Perhaps a Champion was redeemed and so enlightened persuaded his redeemer to go with him on a series of raids and redeem his former colleagues. Thus sanctified they then set forth to once again do the Emperors work in driving back the dark and smitting aliens.

 

So a blank would sever the bonds? That could be interesting... the sorcerer for my army is actually going to be an Inquisitor, and blanks are possibly taken as part of their retinue. Maybe that's how the initial group 'saw sense', and turned away from Chaos. I could use a henchman figure as a familiar to represent this.

 

They don't really want to go back and do the Emperor's work. They believe that the Emperor is possibly just as bad as the Chaos gods, and that without either side, without Chaos and the Emperor, that humanity would return finally to a golden age. (Yes it's deluded, but hey, it fits for me)

 

Also, I don't think smiting aliens would be their goal. Eventually, depending how radical the group gets, I might end up filling out roles with xenos. I was already looking at Wraithlords as a deadnought (darn internet, has no-one actually got a picture of a SM Dread, old metal Wraithlord and new plastic wraithlord side by side?!).

[TheDarkApostle]

Well, there was the story about a Red Corsair who teamed up with the White Scars to try to take down Huron ages ago.

 

 

TDA

[Eddie Orlock]

So a blank would sever the bonds? That could be interesting... the sorcerer for my army is actually going to be an Inquisitor, and blanks are possibly taken as part of their retinue. Maybe that's how the initial group 'saw sense', and turned away from Chaos. I could use a henchman figure as a familiar to represent this.

No. Not mearly any old blank, a Sensei. And not all Sensei, just those who rolled that particular rare power. It's truly archaic fluff though and I haven't seen reference to it in years Decades.

 

If redemption was as easy as shaking a Culexus' hand it'd cheapen the narative value of the taint. No, once you're truly lost you're lost and the only acceptable pennance is death.

 

More the 'A' team. Maybe Sliders or a bit of Quantum Leap.

[Alys]

If redemption was as easy as shaking a Culexus' hand it'd cheapen the narative value of the taint. No, once you're truly lost you're lost and the only acceptable pennance is death.

 

More the 'A' team. Maybe Sliders or a bit of Quantum Leap.

 

I actually was typing a quip regarding Quantum Leap, but couldn't make it work! :huh:

 

But if you didn't have that view that death, and death in glorious battle for the Emperor was the only way out, would penance be needed? It would be like an ex army unit, disgraced, ending up fighting for the opposite side, before realising exactly what they are doing, then turning Mercenary, unable to go back to their original group, but refusing to fight for the opposing group either.

[Lord_Caerolion]

See Badab War, though the path to redemption might not sit too well as an option given some of the hoops the Imperium makes the wayward Chapters jump through. :huh:

 

Well, given that none of the Chapters that returned to the Imperium ever actually took part in Chaos-worship (that was purely the Astral/Tiger Claws), I don't think it really counts.

 

After all, I'll assume that any returned Renegade Chapter isn't going to go up to it's nearest Inquisitor and proudly say "We used to worship Chaos, but now we're back!" If they do, they deserve the "cleansing ritual" that the Inquisitor will put them through, by which we of course mean "bolt to the back of the head".

[Narthecium]

Can they be saved? in the eyes of most Inquisitors I'd bet not. Once bad = always bad.

 

Maybe some radicals would forgive them though, but can you ever really trust a marine that already gave in once? :P

[Alys]

(not sure how to delete posts)

 

The warband has teamed up with a radical inquisitor, who might be classed as heretical now, but in theory she shields them from too much attention, until she herself is made Excommunicate Traitoris.

[Candleshoes]

"A Heretic may see the truth and seek redemption. He may be forgiven his past and will be absolved in death. A Traitor can never be forgiven. A Traitor will never find peace in this world or the next. There is nothing as wretched or as hated in all the world as a Traitor." --- Cardinal Khrysdam, Instructum Absolutio

 

This is pretty much the Imperium's only stance on the subject, as it should be.

[Plague Angel]

I don't have my Chaos codex on me, but I'm pretty sure it says a worshiper of the Dark Gods has only three possible futures — death, daemonhood, or becoming a Spawn. Renegade is one thing, Chaos is another, and it doesn't seem like you can change your mind once the gods have actually started noticing you.

[Kitchen Knife]

The only person I can remember, who got himself somewhat free from the influence of the chaos gods, after being one of the most powerful champions of chaos is/was Arguleon Veq (main character in the "Daemon World" book).

So far, no other "chaos worshipper" has ever gotten free (something about your soul belonging to the gods etc.).

 

And considering the size of the empire, would the Inquisition notice every chapter/warband, that is, let's say, misleaded for half a century and then returnig to serve the emperor again?

Considering, that the chapter didn't cry "Blood for the Blood God" for 40 years throughout the warp (with the help of astropaths of course) :tu:

[Alys]

Redemption seems a little too much to ask for, so I'm working on the fluff now.... so far is that they were renegade for a while (I had said a hundred years, but that's what, a second in the history of 40k!), but realised that both Chaos and the Imperium where practically the same thing, and they have now become separate from both. They believe that the Emperor's stagnation keeps Chaos going, while the imperium is now just an archaic machine that absorbs human lives with very little output. (I'm sure there is a word for a machine that takes in lots of energy to produce nothing)

 

The fluff says that they fought against a radical inquisitor, and either her blank managed to sever the link temporarily, enough for the renegades to realise that they were just another pawn for another corrupt figurehead, or they were clear of chaos influence, and during the usual banter through combat, they kind of realised they have similar views... and that they are now travelling with the inquisitor, trying to find a way to sever the links permanently, while helping her achieve ultimate control of daemons and chaos. While this is going on, the leader of the warband is pulling together all those with a similar mind-set, working on their insecurities and gaining more and more support for this impossible mission to purge the universe of human bonds. They follow any rumours and suggestions, work with Xenos (although the Eldar are a touch wary of them, as they have been renegade, and have renegade chaos marines (renegade rengade!), so the stench of chaos is with them), raid or even help imperial worlds, depending on their primary goals.

 

So in one side it's easy enough to say they were rebels, and the four never really focused on them, on the other, that the four's hold over them was weak at best, and they are now free. A rather fun twist though could be, that this is all Tzeentch's scheming, and he has given them the semblance of freedom to see what they can do. As soon as they get close to their goal (or fail), they will be yanked back into the fold, or destroyed.

[Narthecium]

Redemption seems a little too much to ask for, so I'm working on the fluff now.... so far is that they were renegade for a while (I had said a hundred years, but that's what, a second in the history of 40k!), but realised that both Chaos and the Imperium where practically the same thing, and they have now become separate from both. They believe that the Emperor's stagnation keeps Chaos going, while the imperium is now just an archaic machine that absorbs human lives with very little output. (I'm sure there is a word for a machine that takes in lots of energy to produce nothing)

 

The fluff says that they fought against a radical inquisitor, and either her blank managed to sever the link temporarily, enough for the renegades to realise that they were just another pawn for another corrupt figurehead, or they were clear of chaos influence, and during the usual banter through combat, they kind of realised they have similar views... and that they are now travelling with the inquisitor, trying to find a way to sever the links permanently, while helping her achieve ultimate control of daemons and chaos. While this is going on, the leader of the warband is pulling together all those with a similar mind-set, working on their insecurities and gaining more and more support for this impossible mission to purge the universe of human bonds. They follow any rumours and suggestions, work with Xenos (although the Eldar are a touch wary of them, as they have been renegade, and have renegade chaos marines (renegade rengade!), so the stench of chaos is with them), raid or even help imperial worlds, depending on their primary goals.

 

So in one side it's easy enough to say they were rebels, and the four never really focused on them, on the other, that the four's hold over them was weak at best, and they are now free. A rather fun twist though could be, that this is all Tzeentch's scheming, and he has given them the semblance of freedom to see what they can do. As soon as they get close to their goal (or fail), they will be yanked back into the fold, or destroyed.

 

 

 

I like it, particularly with the last twist -- would make absolute sense in a 40k universe.

 

That being said, it's YOUR game...play it how ya want, if that's the fluff you want for your chapter / renegades / warband then that's the fluff they get!

[obs0l3te]

The lord of night, the night lord starts to fall to chaos but breaks free. And from what I gather from all the night.lord novels very few of them worship chaos. In soul hunter and lord of the night both make quotes saying chaos are fools and a tool, while they just down right hate the imperium

[Alys]

The lord of night, the night lord starts to fall to chaos but breaks free. And from what I gather from all the night.lord novels very few of them worship chaos. In soul hunter and lord of the night both make quotes saying chaos are fools and a tool, while they just down right hate the imperium

 

Half way through Lord of the Night, and I already want the Night Lord Hero

[jma037]

Yes. With the cleansing fire of the flamer.

[Eddie Orlock]

Yes. With the cleansing fire of the flamer.

Tzeencht can't catch you if you're on fire?

[Brother Derringer]

The Dark Angels Fallen are mostly non-chaos but definitely anti-Imperium. Some have in fact repented to themselves and carry on their lives as if they were regular Imperial citizens (though usually become associated with the planet's government in some way) but are still considered traitor and Fallen by the DA.