There are no wolves on Fenris

[shrike2214]

Is it just me that was a little dismayed to find that the whole build up from Thousand Sons as in 'Dont you know there are no wolves on Fenris' means quite literally there are NO wolves on Fenris,

I cant be the only one who thought that it was going to be a bit of a bigger deal than it acctuly is i thought there was going to be some sort of mystic or prophetic reason for this but no it is just very literal there are no wolves.

Unless iv missed some point here or what i am only onto page 278 so it may be that the elaborate on this i hope they do because im gunna feel a bit cheated if not Haha

[Lord_Caerolion]

Firstly, there are already topics discussing this. Secondly, I too find it utterly stupid, as Russ was raised by wolves, disproving the whole "the only wolves are failed Space Wolf aspirants" conspiracy the book puts forward. There is the older conspiracy (from A Thousand Sons) that the wolves are actually the result of a failed experiment to engineer settlers better suited to live on Fenris, when it was originally settled. Over time, the changes became more and more pronounced, until we're left with the 'wolves' that raised Russ.

[Clewz]

I thought it was a little in joke that the space wolves arent the barbarians everybody believes

[Pulse]

Come on you lot sort it out - When Magnus says their are no wolves on Fenris, he means no actual wolves in the animal sense. Magnus hints strongly that the wolves are actual creatures like the Thousands Sons Tutalries, that have taken wolf form.

 

The fact that when Magnus says it, a wolf actively acknowledges it but it's only noticed by Magnus himself.

[Rider-75]

i take it in meaning that they aren't an actual "wolf" as such.

 

there seem to be two implications:

 

(1) they are a xenos creature that looks very much like a wolf, but are natural to fenris, rather than being a genuine "terran" wolf.

 

(2) i also think that there is the old link in the fluff to the canis helix and the effect that it has had on both the fenrisian settlers and the failed VI Legion (and later SW Chapter) aspirants.

 

might you, if you go right back to the first early fluff the SW fangs were implants, rather than an effect of the canis helix.

[Gv0zD]

After reading 'A Thousand Sons' I understood the said moment as the wolves of Fenris were the creatures genetically enhanced by the first settlers to look like wolves, as they would be more familiar to them, rather than local fauna.

I haven't read 'Prospero Burns' so I have no idea what was mentioned there, but judging by 'A Thousand Sons' there seems to be a hint to the fact that SW inject the xenos genes to gain their legendary strength.

[isilvra]

Magnus suggested that the only reason you see a wolf is you expect to see a wolf. I always figured that to the thousand Sons they were warp spirits that had taken animal form. To the Vlka Fenrika they are the spirits of slain battle brothers that have found there way back to fenris. To the native fenrisians? Werewolves!

[Clewz]

Magnus suggested that the only reason you see a wolf is you expect to see a wolf. I always figured that to the thousand Sons they were warp spirits that had taken animal form. To the Vlka Fenrika they are the spirits of slain battle brothers that have found there way back to fenris. To the native fenrisians? Werewolves!

 

Could it be its the last stage of the wulfen?

[shrike2214]

I have read a little further on and the plot thickens

It seems that the whole wolf thing is a total mutation much like the 'Flesh change' of the TS because one of the Rune Preists sees something in the Skalds mind that twists him into turning into a wolf, he then turns back after having the ever loving crap kicked out of him but they say

"He has turned thers noting we can do" and how he as "Been touched by Malefictarum"

I think its going to be a one of those things that there going to keep us hanging on with

[Grandmaster Anaziel]

Magnus suggested that the only reason you see a wolf is you expect to see a wolf. I always figured that to the thousand Sons they were warp spirits that had taken animal form. To the Vlka Fenrika they are the spirits of slain battle brothers that have found there way back to fenris. To the native fenrisians? Werewolves!

 

Very true. The nature of the Fenrisian Wolf is shrouded.

I think that in some way they are perhaps like the Sanguinor.

[Razhbad]

I have read both a Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns with both accounts from either legions point of view to the words 'There are no Wolves on Fenris', now i believe i know what is on Fenris now that looks so damn similar to a wolf but is not one. Personally after reading both books i am slightly annoyed that so much emphasis was put into this i consider it not being needed.

 

I think that it would be have been a better idea if perhaps one day Leman Russ said "Oh by the way, you'll never guess what There are no Wolves on Fenris, now let me tell you what they are...."

 

Rather then pages of hints and misdirections and alternative interpretations.

[Aegnor]

I don't like the whole thing. I prefer that the wolves on Fenris are simply creatures that are a lot like bigger, nastier Earth wolves. The new thing doesn't add anything good to the story in my view and doesn't really work with the existing fluff. IMO.

[dragon950]

I like to think the the wolves on Fenris can no longer be called wolves since they evolved to survive the harsh climate, kind of how you can't call dire wolves wolves anymore. But we do it anyways becuase thats what they resemble.

 

I also like to forget some of the stuff said in Prosper Burns.

[Xisor]

If memory serves, which it might not, the implications are pretty broad and deep:

1- That the Emperor implanted the Canix Helix not only into Russ, but into/based-upon-something-found-in the population of Fenris itself

2- The wolves aren't indigenous/natural creatures to Fenris.

3- That Space Wolves can/do turn into wolves permanently. (Cref: Russ' words to Kasper at the end of PB)

 

 

The possibilities include that it's only (failed) Space Wolves who transform, thus Russ wasn't raised by Wolves, unless he was raised by some sort of psychic-back-ripple, which really isn't that crazy for 40k. Also the possibility that degenerate civilians of Fenris sometimes transform (e.g. Fenris is populated by at least some 'classic type' werewolves). There's also the possibility that there are wolves on Fenris and this is all just nonsense supposition, even from Russ and Magnus.

[Valtonis]

it can also be that the whole story about Russ being raised by wolves is a fabrication to make Russ seem more barbaric.

as it seems that he enjoys pretending to be a "barbarian king"

[styygens]

OK, the last time I speculated on fluff, I got a bunch of people mad at me and the author had to come in, sort things out, and proved me wrong. You'd think I'd learn my lesson.

 

But NO! I am too stubborn for that.

 

I got the impression that the original settlers of Fenris were genetically modified to survive. Some of them turned into the Fenrisian wolves somehow -- it might have been accidental, it might've been intentional. In this theory, the wolves and the humans exist side-by-side on Fenris for generations. This allows Russ to be found and raised by wolves.

 

The process to turn a Fenrisian human into Astartes somehow interferes with the genes and sometimes goes awry, leaving us with Wulfen. Maybe nobody expected this because wolves and humans had bred true for so long on Fenris, and it wasn't uncovered until they started recruiting Fenrisians.

 

It would be interesting to find out if the Legion suffered from the curse of the Wulfen when it was comprised solely of Terrans before Russ was found.

 

I'm probably wrong, but that's my theory.

[Lord_Caerolion]

it can also be that the whole story about Russ being raised by wolves is a fabrication to make Russ seem more barbaric.

as it seems that he enjoys pretending to be a "barbarian king"

 

Well, given the fact that he's accompanied by his two wolf "brothers", Freki and Geri, I find that hard to believe. Remember, the Rout don't like lying about their histories, so Russ coming up with some story and passing it off as truth doesn't fit. Plus, we have an outright statement in the Index Astartes article that Russ was raised by wolves initially, until most of his pack was killed, and he was captured.

[Razhbad]

it can also be that the whole story about Russ being raised by wolves is a fabrication to make Russ seem more barbaric.

as it seems that he enjoys pretending to be a "barbarian king"

 

Well, given the fact that he's accompanied by his two wolf "brothers", Freki and Geri, I find that hard to believe. Remember, the Rout don't like lying about their histories, so Russ coming up with some story and passing it off as truth doesn't fit. Plus, we have an outright statement in the Index Astartes article that Russ was raised by wolves initially, until most of his pack was killed, and he was captured.

 

Ok first off you cannot really trust the Index Astartes, those source materials are the most wildly innacurate stuff i've read (e.g look at the Legions it says are at the drop site massacre). The other thing is in the HH series it never says that Russ is raised by Wolves, it might be that in the 41st Millenium this is what is believed. After all it has been 10 thousand years for Russ to put people straight.

[dragon950]

So your saying just ignore what we have read so far and put our trust into something that someone that has creative liberties made.

 

Then the whole thing of how each person on Fenris has the canis helix is false from my view. When they drink from the cup of the wulfen they gain the canis helix which starts the changes space marines under go; like increased muscle, different bone structure, height increase, and the body having an easier time with the other organs that are implanted. So if each person on fenris had the canis helix then wouldn't all of them be of space marine proportions?

 

I guess I just find this stuff hard to believe when the same group of authors said that the alpha legion has 2 primarchs.

[Cyprus]

So your saying just ignore what we have read so far and put our trust into something that someone that has creative liberties made.

 

Then the whole thing of how each person on Fenris has the canis helix is false from my view. When they drink from the cup of the wulfen they gain the canis helix which starts the changes space marines under go; like increased muscle, different bone structure, height increase, and the body having an easier time with the other organs that are implanted. So if each person on fenris had the canis helix then wouldn't all of them be of space marine proportions?

 

I guess I just find this stuff hard to believe when the same group of authors said that the alpha legion has 2 primarchs.

 

Or DO they have 2 Primarchs? Mwhahahahhahaha

[Razhbad]

Well i saw an interview with Dan Abnett about Legion in that he claims that Alan Merrett and the others had always invisioned Alpharius as a twin right from the beginning of them creating the HH, Legion was just the first time it was put to paper.

 

Now with Index Astartes its hard to completely ignore it. Remember there had been for many years very little information on the HH and the fans wanted to know what happened, it was hinted at loads so they wanted source information. Thus Index Astartes came out and it brought a lot of new stuff. Yet one of the first things i noticed early on was the Index Astartes was contradictory of itself and when the HH series came out things well replaced with newer information. Thus with the knowledge said that there are no Wolves on Fenris we can assume that the info on Leman Russ is one of these bits of info that will be replaced.

 

As the years go on GW constantly updates its text and hundreds of things that were canon when i started are no longer canon. Look to the Squats, Malal, Star Child and the Storm of Chaos. All of these things have been heavily altered by GW or just plain ignored to never be mentioned again. Until a HH book comes out giving us more accurate information you might as well ignore everything that was written previously. But then of course we cannot also do that because its the only source we have from before, an interesting mix is it not.

[Simonius]

I tend to think of it this way:

 

In-universe

The codex, index astartes etc, are the 40k view of things, 10,000 years after the events to which they are refering. Over that length of time, stories get distorted, embellished, events are magnified - untruths are told.

 

So, Russ is raised by wolves who have always lived on Fenris, because this gives mythic grandeur and all those good things.

 

The HH series is the truth, as told and chronicled by those present at the actual time of the events. It is only distorted by the perspective of those doing the telling.

 

So, Russ may or may not have been raised by wolves (we aren't actually told), but there may not actually be any "real" wolves on Fenris.

 

In-reality

GW and BL like to re-write stuff and change things as time goes by.

[Kodanshi]

In A Thousand Sons, the first confrontation between the Sons and the Wolves features a Thousand Son killing one of the wolves that accompanied the Astartes Wolves. At the end of the battle Russ threatens Magnus and accuses him and his group of spilling Space Wolves blood. The only killing mentioned is of one (or possibly two) actual wolves.

 

All this makes me side with the theory that ‘there are no wolves on Fenris’ refers to a final stage of the Wulfen mutation process. What others see as wolves actually represent erstwhile battle brothers who have fully changed…

[Icee77]

Personally I believe there are two meanings to this phrase.

Magnus, as he is more interested in facts and knowledge, sees this phrase as LITERALLY there ARE no wolves on Fenris, only genetically engineered creatures.

Russ and the Rout, on the other hand, are more spiritual or tribal, and use it to show, as Clewz said, the Rout are not actually wild feral wolves but clever civilized people.

[Azarias]

Personally I believe there are two meanings to this phrase.

Magnus, as he is more interested in facts and knowledge, sees this phrase as LITERALLY there ARE no wolves on Fenris, only genetically engineered creatures.

Russ and the Rout, on the other hand, are more spiritual or tribal, and use it to show, as Clewz said, the Rout are not actually wild feral wolves but clever civilized people.

 

And we have a winner!

 

We're constantly being shown that the Horus Heresy series makes good attempts to go beyond mere narrative, and into more interesting territory - subtler characterization, the development and teasing of themes, and so forth. I think the Fenris Wolves are just another locus that reflects back into the character's face just what we're supposed to see in them.