What do robes mean? That the wearer is Deathwing?

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

Hi all,

I am in the process of designing a DA successor chapter, and now I was just wondering what the robes worn by some DA actually mean. As far as I can see, almost all officers (and definitely all senior officers) wear robes. Then some of the Ravenwing do, and some Company Veterans.

 

So is this just a honorific thing, like a medal in other chapters, or does it mean the guy with the robe is a member of the Deathwing? I believe in second edition fluff it was members of the Deathwing only who wore robes, but since company veterans are not members of the Deathwing, as I understand, nor are Ravenwing bikers, that cannot be true anymore, right?

 

What do you guys think? Or is there even somewhere an official statement on this?

 

Thanks for any help.

[Grand Master Neo]

robes used to signify a rank within the force but it's more for aesthetics nowadays.

 

i personally still only use robes in my force to signify veteran/deathwing status

[shabbadoo]

I only use them for Vets. and Vet. Sgts. too, as the robes are the color that is associated with the Deathwing. You could just say they are monkish robes though, and paint them in any color, seeing as you are creating your own successor chapter.

[pueriexdeus]

The whole robe thing was a GW exercise in sales. DA needed to become differentiated from the SM in general.

 

By my recollection the only historical reference to robes was on the top three. Azzi, Asmo, and Zeek. Their figures have always been portrayed with robes. I think at the time it inferred a badge of office (Inner Circle?)

 

Since GW needs to generate income they introduced the Vet Sgt blisters sometime around C:DA V3. At the time this was a bone for DA players, after all we had Vets with Termi Honors (DW in PA) and it became a cool way to identify them. as we are now into C:DA V4/40K V5 it has become the iconic reference for the DA, just like tits on the BA will in the future. :)

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

I see. I actually like the original idea that only guys introduced into at least the outer layer of secrets get robes. On the other hand, it really is one of the defining factors, visually.

 

Okay, new question:

 

What is your view on company veterans and/or veteran sergeants being members of the Deathwing? In fact, could a Deathwing member get promoted to 3rd Co. Veteran Sergeant? How could a 'normal' company veteran come to be a Deathwing or Ravenwing member? Is this at all feasible, or is there no way back into the line companies from Ravenwing and Deathwing?

[S. Bloodhowl]

I mainly use mine on veterans, sergeants and special weapon guys. I don't think they bear much significance fluff-wise though

[EPK]

What is your view on company veterans and/or veteran sergeants being members of the Deathwing? In fact, could a Deathwing member get promoted to 3rd Co. Veteran Sergeant? How could a 'normal' company veteran come to be a Deathwing or Ravenwing member? Is this at all feasible, or is there no way back into the line companies from Ravenwing and Deathwing?

 

I kind of thought that Company Vets/Vet Sarges would actually be the ones to eventually fill the Deathwing and perhaps some Ravenwing slots and the only way they were going back to a battle company would be as it's Company Master. All Deathwing are basically Vets even in gameplay if you take into consideration their stat line (2 attacks). Though there is not representation of this in gameplay, I believe a squad leader - though not a Vet per se - would also likely to be ready for Deathwing or Ravenwing entry. I'd even guess that Ravenwing Vet Sarges would eventually move up to Deathwing.

 

I'm not as sure about Ravenwing, but I might guess they would get many of their marines from the all fast attack reserve company (whichever that is).

[GlauG]

As of 2E Angels of Death, IIRC the bone-coloured robes served to signify any member of the Deathwing who was in Power Armour for any reason, which included all the Special Characters (including Bethor! Don't forget Brother Bethor. ;_; ). There was a really cool army a guy had in White Dwarf years ago where he'd painted their armour DW Bone, and instead used the robes to signify their rank (blue for Ezekiel, green for Azrael, black for Asmodai/Sapphon, etc) but I digress. At the bare minimum, I use the robes to signify a sergeant in this day and age. I see them as being a badge of veteran rank, as supposedly the Pre-Heresy DA all wore them as a holdover from the monastic robes of the Order on Caliban. I'd love to do a successor where /every/ member was robed, however, /except/ veterans and officers, as they've cast off the chains of the past somehow.

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

That about the robes being from the monastic order on Caliban is an interesting piece of fluff. That way it makes sense for non-Deathwing members to wear robes, too. Thank you, now I can give my Veterans robes without any regrets! :P

[Grand Master Belial]

I've taken the new direction of the Codex to turn the DA into Shaolin (warrior) monks. All wear robes but only those Of the Inner Circle wear the bone robes as mentioned above. The Codex also shows the Successors and a couple could be seen wearing robes all the time for all members (Guardians of the Covenant). I also took a cue from Vet Sgt Naaman in that he was a member of the Deathwing and yet wore Scout Armor. I tend to bend the fluff a bit and though the First Company ALWAYS fights in Terminator Armor not ALL of the Inner Circle does (special characters). I took the liberty to say that members of the Inner Circle can be chosen/asked to serve in the other companies as vets/vet sergeants. They can then act as eyes and ears for those ready to advance as well handle any Fallen they find but are outside the reach of their Terminator clad brethren. Since they are the most knowledgable, they would also make great teachers to their fellow brethren (the reason I claim as to why our Scouts are better than the rest stat wise and are Elites, they are being taught by those who had fought in the First Company).

 

My two coppers

[Grand Master Neo]

I've taken the new direction of the Codex to turn the DA into Shaolin (warrior) monks. All wear robes but only those Of the Inner Circle wear the bone robes as mentioned above. The Codex also shows the Successors and a couple could be seen wearing robes all the time for all members (Guardians of the Covenant). I also took a cue from Vet Sgt Naaman in that he was a member of the Deathwing and yet wore Scout Armor. I tend to bend the fluff a bit and though the First Company ALWAYS fights in Terminator Armor not ALL of the Inner Circle does (special characters). I took the liberty to say that members of the Inner Circle can be chosen/asked to serve in the other companies as vets/vet sergeants. They can then act as eyes and ears for those ready to advance as well handle any Fallen they find but are outside the reach of their Terminator clad brethren. Since they are the most knowledgable, they would also make great teachers to their fellow brethren (the reason I claim as to why our Scouts are better than the rest stat wise and are Elites, they are being taught by those who had fought in the First Company).

 

My two coppers

that is an extremely good argument for scouts in elites. never thought about it that way before

 

although in that case then surely the tactical squads etc. should be elite as well?

[Grand Master Belial]

I always thought the DA being Tactical geniuses would mean that WS AND BS would be a point over the rest so a Tactical marine would have the same skill as a veteran from another chapter. It would give the chapter some flavor but can still maintain their Codex adherence in Companies 3-10. It would also give the Deathwing their fearful repupation when they all have WS/BS of 6 minimum.

[he_plays_guitar]

I tend to use robes for Vets, Sgts, and Captains or special characters. I also like to paint my Sgts and Captain's armor bone and give them terminator honors. It gives them a very nice look because not only do they have robes signifying their rank, they have bone colored armor to show their Deathwing Status. The way I figure it, the tactical squads are going to need someone with experience to lead them, why not someone from the Deathwing? Either way, it makes for a pretty stunning visual impact.

[Cactus]

I agree with EPK and GlauG. Also, having robes throughout the army on some, but not all, veterans, command squads and sergeants reflects how a suitable candidate can be brought into the Deathwing regardless of his role or speciality. That, and they look freakin' cool. :woot:

 

I think part of the reason for only senior officers wearing robes back in the day was because nearly every other model was from the generic marine range. Apart from the Space Wolves and special characters there were very few chapter specific models. With the rise of the plastic boxed set it's likely that the background has evolved to support the range of robed, and thus distinctively Dark Angel, models.

[Lord_Hail]

My thought on robes was he is a Deathwing waiting on TDA, fluff states that anyone with knowledge of the fallen is in after they are deamed worthy. With that they also are allowed to paint thier armour bone, thus why they get robes. Do you know what it costs a battle brother it that day and age to repaint their entire armour to a new color scheme and explain it to others? (my two cents and a little fun)

[Cactus]

Remember that Deathwing(1) - the first company - and Deathwing(2) - the secret society of Fallen-hunters are not entirely the same. All of Deathwing(1) are members of Deathwing(2), but not all members of (2) are members of (1). So those Deathwing robes can turn up anywhere, if the marine is suitably veteran or equivalent.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I use the models scattered through my army, there's no rhyme and reason for them, although characters get robes.

[The Shadow Guard]

I've taken the new direction of the Codex to turn the DA into Shaolin (warrior) monks. All wear robes but only those Of the Inner Circle wear the bone robes as mentioned above. The Codex also shows the Successors and a couple could be seen wearing robes all the time for all members (Guardians of the Covenant). I also took a cue from Vet Sgt Naaman in that he was a member of the Deathwing and yet wore Scout Armor. I tend to bend the fluff a bit and though the First Company ALWAYS fights in Terminator Armor not ALL of the Inner Circle does (special characters). I took the liberty to say that members of the Inner Circle can be chosen/asked to serve in the other companies as vets/vet sergeants. They can then act as eyes and ears for those ready to advance as well handle any Fallen they find but are outside the reach of their Terminator clad brethren. Since they are the most knowledgable, they would also make great teachers to their fellow brethren (the reason I claim as to why our Scouts are better than the rest stat wise and are Elites, they are being taught by those who had fought in the First Company).

 

My two coppers

 

That's a nice take on the subject GMB. Obvously everyone has their own views and as long as your view fits in with the general concept of the unforgiven all if fair.

 

There has always been an overlap and confusion in the description of Deathwing, Deathwing Company and Inner Circle. My take is that all members of the first company (Deathwing) are members of Deathwing as are others in the other companies, both overtly visible such as their namely their company masters and invisible such as the apothecary in the novel "Angels of Darkness" ... Deathwing has many circles.... Important fact to consider is that not all members of Deathwing belong to the Inner circle.... The Inner ircle is composed of a select few including the high command, (Grandmasters and Master, Librarians and Chaplains and a few others amongst the members of the Deathwing)

 

I take the robes as signature of membership in the Inner Circle.... hence the Supreme GM, GMs, Librarians and Chaplains are clad in them. Some battlebrothers who are overtly members of DW are also clad in them. That way I can robe my DW sergeants and leave the rest without robes...!! :rolleyes:

 

SG

[Crimson Fisting]

Members of the Inner Circle (ie: those Dark Angels and successors that have knowledge of the betrayel and Fallen) wear robes. So, Deathwing, some Ravenwing, characters, and some company vets get robes if you want to stay fluffy.

[HsojVvad]

So the DA that don't wear robes, what would they be thinking then? How come some do and some don't? What does it take to wear them?

[Crimson Fisting]

So the DA that don't wear robes, what would they be thinking then? How come some do and some don't? What does it take to wear them?

 

The initiates that don't wear them wouldn't be thinking anything other than doing what their higher-ups tell them to do. Say they're on a planet looking for one of the Fallen, the Interrogator-Chaplain or Captain or whatever doesn't need to explain himself to a lowly trooper. I would assume the average Space Marine has the discipline to follow his superior's orders without question. It's easier to keep a secret secret the less people know about it. It takes being initiated into the Inner Circle (being a kickass veteran) to wear them. Also, the exact means of how a Dark Angel earns his knowledge/ robes is purposely left convoluted and vague to better represent the secretive nature of the Chapter.

[Kingin]

Ok to understand the robes heres example.

 

Go to your laundry place. Put some blankets in and then some awesome cleaner. Clean then put in the drayer. When you take it out put it against your face! Its soft and awesome! Dark Angels use Tid to get those bad blood stains off and to make us feel good when we ware it.

[Mirivor]

Thought I might chime in here. Lots of good advice and ideas already. This thread instantly brought the Codex to mind. I will qoute it here (all credit and ownership to GW. If I did something wrong here, please correct)

 

"Dark Angels sometimes wear long robes of a bone white color over their armor. These indicate the brother's rank, role, or position within the convoluted structure of the Chapter, and therefore are most often scene on Company Veterans, Veteran Sergeants, and high ranking officers." (Codex: Dark Angels, P. 59)

 

This leaves plenty of room for any interpretation, of course, but it is a firm basis from which to start just about any theme. Every Dark Angel could possibly wear one, but it stands to reason that most of the Chapter really does not have reason to, generally. Sort of like how a private in the army simply does not have any stars or bars to pin to his uniform just yet.

 

Later!

[EtriX]

I theorize that to be granted Veteran status within DA you need to be part of the inner circle and been through First Company and then sent out to carry out the work on a larger scale, as someone said they reach out and search for fallen angels in places that First Company can't reach (or aren't practical).

They are almost like a sort of political officer for me since they watch and train their newer brethren and it is a great honor to be regarded as a Veteran within the DA army.